Advent Computer Training (Barclays Partner Finance)Info and discussion thread

[Bluedo]

Wizard

You appear to be supportive of a Bank that imo is displaying very unfair trading practices. I'll agree with you that any legal action will need to be watertight but the fact that many of us were blinded by a very well trained sales tactic to entice us to sign up to an over priced Fixed Sum Loan that was obviously the object of the exercise.

There should have been an assessment of students prior to signing any agreement as to their capabilities not just signing everyone up to an MCSE course that has now been proven to be in some cases unachievable as it's recommended to be employed in IT at least with 18month experience.

I have passed the first 2 exams and I'll admit was beginning to struggle.

If they had been reputable and not just in some cahoots with BPF to get people to take out crippling loans they would have had the experience to assess prior it was nothing but a money making scheme.

You don't think any judge will give a refund to anyone that hasn't passed an exam after 1year Why not!Being also told just to go at your own pace was telling people that time was of no concern.

I had friends in Kidderminster I don't even know where Dudley I was told by TS that a new provider would need to be near to where I am, and if we're to be given like for like is it fair that we have to agree to an unscrupulous company that it's present students are seeking to bring a lawsuit against.

There are consumer laws and someone needs to look into these Schemes to take advantage of young people who are not savvy YET. Do you suggest we just say ok BPF thank you for screwing us into the ground and wrecking our lives. And taking advantage of our ignorance to Corporate Business but Hey it's ok we'll shut up and pay up. Lesson learned very expensive one so we'll be punished. ITS WRONG

[10pack]

I am by no means capitulating - however I am being realistic.

 

The like for like argument will NOT stand up. The MCSE is for Windows XP and Server 2003 - not 7 or Vista or Server 2008 enterprise. We all signed up for an MCSE. BPF have arranged for us to get our MCSE - therefore, the replacement IS like for like. If Advent hadn't gone bust, we would be studying for MCSE - would you then be demanding that they put us on a Windows 7 route free of charge? I know what the answer would be.

 

Thanks Martin - I am only trying to be constructive here as any legal challenge will need to be watertight, and so far BPF have covered themselves on all fronts as far as I can see, apart from some flimsy "mis sold" courses that funnily enough people have only started to complain about when it looks like they may be able to get a refund.

 

Computeach are like for like - and even if there are plenty of internet sites that say Computeach are rubbish, you will find just as many saying Advent were rubbish.

 

The "it's too far away" argument is also laughable as Computeach are about 5 miles away from Advent, Kidderminster to Dudley.

 

The only route to a refund is that we DID NOT CHOOSE Computeach and therefore should get our money back, however I don't think any judge will give a full refund to someone who has been enrolled on a distance learning course for 12 + months and hasnt even sat an exam yet.....

 

I hear your rational of your arguments.. but at the end of the day if you rewound the clock and knew what would happen with advent.. would you have chosen computeach?

 

Speaking as a former student of computeach the main problem is the way they work, their internal exams are designed to waste your time so that you will give up and they then have your money or the course time has ended and they want more of your money to continue.

Go and enrol if you wish but I bet you at the end of this year you will still be in the same position as you are now.. with no external exams passed!!.

 

And as others have pointed out, none here chose to go with computeach in the first place so why should they have it forced on them... it should be a free decision as it was made in the first place.

Barclays should have asked us what we wanted to do instead of pushing us down into theirs

[Boosh]

Someone said in an earlier post that with computeach the longer you spend doing the course the more money they ask you to give each year.

So another thing to think about is once we've used our 5k and and not completed the course, will they start asking us to pay more?????

[10pack]

Someone said in an earlier post that with computeach the longer you spend doing the course the more money they ask you to give each year.

So another thing to think about is once we've used our 5k and and not completed the course, will they start asking us to pay more?????

 

Yes count on it.. they will

[Boosh]

Yes count on it.. they will

surely that will be a breach of contract, also our mock pass rate was 85% with advent, will they CT expect the 90% other CT students have said they expect and Advent said we can take as much time as we need to pass the course but BPF were under the impression it was two years!!!! What do CT expect?

 

If we do have to contact CT ourselves, these are all relevent questions to ask, I hope you all agree

 

If any one has more relevant questions please let us know so we can grill them once we have our letters and really put them on the spot with another good argument for us

[wizard21]

Whoa whoa, im not supportive of Barclays and I agree that we should not be forced to accept a provider that we didn't choose.

 

If time was turned back, I still would have chosen IT distance learning as so fair it has done me far more good than bad. 18 months ago I worked on a building site. Now I work for a major financial institution and love my work. Expensive yes, but worth it in the long run.

 

I agree that Advent should have carried out much more extensive vetting of students, however surely the student should have done a bit of research before forking out over 6 grand??? How long does it take to go to Advent's website, see the course path and type in the certs into Google to see what they entail, and then think "hmm, could I do that?"

 

I feel for the people who think that they were somehow "hoodwinked" into these courses as i know that Advent did enrol a lot of people who simply couldn't do the course. I attended the second A+ workshop with a young lad who had failed the first exam 5 times. He had no chance of getting an MCSE, but had paid 5 grand for one. Whose fault is that - his or Advents?

 

It seems to me like a lot of people are happy about the demise of Advent as it gives them an avenue to complain for a refund for something that they were tied into and wanted out of anyway because they couldn't (or couldn't be bothered) to do it.

 

What about the people who were happy with Advent and were getting certified for their job?

 

10Pack - my plan is to enrol with Computeach and if i fail their "internal" exam, i'll get work to pay for my 270 and 290. If I pass, I go back to Barclays with a solid case saying that these guys are no good - they are holding me back, give me back my money.

 

I appreciate you giving me a heads up on how Computeach work though.

[cashins]

Thanks CitizenB and Martin 3030 for jumping in.

 

As pointed out there are a number of different situations people have found themselves in so for clarity I will stick with the one I am personally aware of.

 

Student signed up 14 months ago with Advent for a computer course, funded through a I year deferred BNPL agreement with BPF.

 

The agreement has been posted, I will post the Advent contract ASAP.

 

BPF withdrew finance facilities from Advent and other training companies

late Jan 2010. Advent and others promptly called in the receivers.

 

BPF's attitude was they would find another provider and payments should continue. The student in my case sent a letter demanding that the account should be frozen which they did and confirmed Feb 7. In her case the payments had only just started and she had only made one payment.

 

I drafted an LBA which went mid Feb requesting cancellation of the agreement and return of the payment. This was ignored and has timed out.

 

On 23rd March BPF sent an Arrears Notice detailing 2 payments due - £500+. Letter has gone back pointing out they put the agreement on hold and they cancelled the DD and asked them to resind the notice. No response as yet. She has had nothing so far regarding Computeach. (In fact the administrators have sold Advent to Computeach who have effectively taken them over).

 

In this case I would put in a POC (section 75) asking the agreement to be cancelled, (so she is free to choose here own provider) and return of the one payment. The initial cost of the course was nearly 6k and obviously with BPF interest, is far in excess of that.

 

I think this would stand or fall on the courts opinion regarding the Computeach/Advent version being able to fulfill the terms of the original contract. Relevant to this would be the fact that Advents staff were laid off end January and many may well be in other emloyment by now. As it seems likely that the number of students involed (with BPF) may number in the thousands - can't see them getting up to speed that quickly so compensation could be an issue if the main arguement failed.

 

I view of the sums and complexity, it might well wind up Fast Track.

 

David

[SajstarHero]

I wonder if we need to sign a new contract in which case we would be entitled to a refund as the contract has been voided right? But if Advent have been baught out by computeach, then computeach would simply state its a change of ownership and thus the old deal stands. So I am assuming barclays went to them, said buy them out, we will give you the money. This makes it so the loopholes are covered. b*****ds!!!!! Is there anyway to get our money back now?

 

I want to go with a local college which will provide the qualifications I want not what I was talked into,

 

'this is a one shot deal. You have to sign now as there little spaces and only 3 left.'

 

I never wanted to do these particular coarses and all I wanted to do was a computer maintenance. I like making stuff and fixing stuff. I mean how relevant will those rubbish out dated qualifications be by the time we finish? It is a [problem], we where scammed originally as we where clueless, now again. Ignorance had led me to this mess, if I had sense I would have not said yes to it originally.

 

I want to spend quality time with my kids not be stuck studying materials that take a year a time to pass one qualification. I can pass the same thing in 4 months in a class based environment with a up to date version of the qualification if Barclays gives me my money back.

[mantaxi]

has anyone recieved any details from computeach out lining the like for like contract yet? as someone pointed out earlier that dudley is not far from kidderminster fair enough do ct use prometric as the examiner as i was told by advent. you won't have to go far for your exams there is a prometric exam cetre just down the road from me, where have i got to go now if they don't? perhaps it won't matter with ct if they make the pass mark to high then i won't be going anywhere for a long time. we need to see what like for like is being offered.

[Boosh]

Surely when signing any new contract there is a cancellation period???????

Which should come with any contract that we sign, if we find ourselves in a position where we have to sign then surely we will have 5 or 14 days (which ever is the legal requirement) to cancel right????

[Boosh]

has anyone recieved any details from computeach out lining the like for like contract yet? as someone pointed out earlier that dudley is not far from kidderminster fair enough do ct use prometric as the examiner as i was told by advent. you won't have to go far for your exams there is a prometric exam cetre just down the road from me, where have i got to go now if they don't? perhaps it won't matter with ct if they make the pass mark to high then i won't be going anywhere for a long time. we need to see what like for like is being offered.

Hi Mantaxi, I have mentioned a couple of questions earlier on this page that will be interesting to find out the answers to.

[MARTIN3030]

I agee David.

You are an experienced CAG member and whilst the issues here differ a little in the actual previous threads prior to this happening-you will be well aware that there must be a couse of action given the way things have been handled.

I apologise for the slowness of site team intervention-I am more than determined to give this 100% but have been away.

There are some team members who have been following,but like I said,due to the fact that there are so many different places this is being discussed and debated with no seemingly focus on collaberation-this has made it difficult to keep abreast of whats happening.

It needs only one claim to see if there is gravity and prospect to pursue,although as you know at the end of the day it comes down to Judge and Court.

The 5k for small claims is not rigid-there is discretion-but as you know-any challenge that is over 5k will be met with Barclays looking to want fast track.

A way around it would be for claimants to keep the figure under 5k.

which may mean a forfeit but maybe could claw the difference back in costs and interest.

 

There should be focus not just on the contractual issues,but the way Barclays have behaved post the Advent crash.

 

I am eager and hungry to assist in any way I can and want to see justice for anyone who has good cause of action.

 

Perhaps you can pm me with anything you feel you cant post here-I can tell you without doubt that Barclays are actively reading and monitoring all posts here.

If my pm is full-email me (link is in my sig) or hit the triangle.

 

 

BTW - I have a very good contact for contractual law and have asked them to take a look at the thread here.

[cashins]

Advent Contract:

 

 

 

David

[Bluedo]

AARRGH!!!I'll not be signing nothing ever again lol Seriously I'm waiting to see what the letter says then I'll trot to the TS and see what they say if I'm going down I'll go fighting.

Thanks Cashins for that post hope your CAG friends can help it's the not sure of where we really stand that's unsettling

 

Also what are they going to do about 10pack and others who are ex Computaech students how can they re-enrol those students when they' know what they're like and didn't want them before just a thought

Edited March 28, 2010 by Bluedo

[MARTIN3030]

Surely when signing any new contract there is a cancellation period???????

Which should come with any contract that we sign, if we find ourselves in a position where we have to sign then surely we will have 5 or 14 days (which ever is the legal requirement) to cancel right????

 

 

 

Most contracts will be legally binding and enforceable as soon as they are made. The supplier must deliver the goods or services mentioned in the contract and the customer must pay the purchase price. As a general rule, customers cannot get out of a binding contract simply because they change their mind. This would be considered to be a breach of contract on the customer's part and may mean that the customer will have to pay the innocent party compensation to cover any loss of profit and expenses.

However, there are certain cases when a customer can cancel a contract without incurring a penalty.

Consumer Credit Agreements

 

 

• Withdrawal
  When you sign a credit agreement you may withdraw from the contract at any time before the agreement is signed by the other party on behalf of the lender. There is no contract until all parties have agreed. This applies whether you have signed at home or on business premises.
  
• Cancellation
  If you sign a credit agreement at home following face to face contact with the supplier you must be given written notice of your cancellation rights. These should be written into the agreement you sign and you should be given a copy of this agreement at the time you sign it.
  In addition, you should receive either a second copy of the agreement signed by the finance company through the post, or a separate notice of your cancellation rights. You have five days from when you receive this second copy or notice to cancel the agreement. If you cancel, you are entitled to recover any deposit that you have paid.
  
  

Contracts made in a Consumer’s Home or Place of Work

 

The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumer's Home or Place of Work, etc Regulations 2008 provide cancellation rights for most contracts over £35 that you enter into when at your home or otherwise away from the trader's usual place of business. The regulations apply whether you invite the trader to your home or if their visit is unsolicited. At the time the contract is made, the trader must provide you with a written notice explaining your rights to cancel. This will then give you 7 days to cancel the contract starting the day the cancellation notice is received. If you do cancel, you will be entitled to recover any deposit made.

You may have to pay a reasonable charge if you agree in writing to work starting or consume goods within the seven day period and then cancel.

 

How To Cancel

 

 

• Cancel within seven days of receiving your cancellation notice;
  
• Write to the trader telling them that you are cancelling the agreement, as you are legally entitled to do. Complete and return any cancellation slip provided.
  
• Obtain a certificate of posting or keep of a copy of your email as proof of cancellation
  
• Keep any goods supplied safe until collected.
  

Failure To Give Notice Of Cancellation Rights

 

If you have signed a contract/credit agreement at home and you have not been given cancellation rights, the agreement may not be enforceable against you and the supplier may have committed an offence.

[Boosh]

Most contracts will be legally binding and enforceable as soon as they are made. The supplier must deliver the goods or services mentioned in the contract and the customer must pay the purchase price. As a general rule, customers cannot get out of a binding contract simply because they change their mind. This would be considered to be a breach of contract on the customer's part and may mean that the customer will have to pay the innocent party compensation to cover any loss of profit and expenses.

However, there are certain cases when a customer can cancel a contract without incurring a penalty.

Consumer Credit Agreements

 

 

• 
  
• Withdrawal
  When you sign a credit agreement you may withdraw from the contract at any time before the agreement is signed by the other party on behalf of the lender. There is no contract until all parties have agreed. This applies whether you have signed at home or on business premises.
  
• Cancellation
  If you sign a credit agreement at home following face to face contact with the supplier you must be given written notice of your cancellation rights. These should be written into the agreement you sign and you should be given a copy of this agreement at the time you sign it.
  In addition, you should receive either a second copy of the agreement signed by the finance company through the post, or a separate notice of your cancellation rights. You have five days from when you receive this second copy or notice to cancel the agreement. If you cancel, you are entitled to recover any deposit that you have paid.
  
  

Contracts made in a Consumer’s Home or Place of Work

 

The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumer's Home or Place of Work, etc Regulations 2008 provide cancellation rights for most contracts over £35 that you enter into when at your home or otherwise away from the trader's usual place of business. The regulations apply whether you invite the trader to your home or if their visit is unsolicited. At the time the contract is made, the trader must provide you with a written notice explaining your rights to cancel. This will then give you 7 days to cancel the contract starting the day the cancellation notice is received. If you do cancel, you will be entitled to recover any deposit made.

You may have to pay a reasonable charge if you agree in writing to work starting or consume goods within the seven day period and then cancel.

 

How To Cancel

 

 

• 
  
• Cancel within seven days of receiving your cancellation notice;
  
• Write to the trader telling them that you are cancelling the agreement, as you are legally entitled to do. Complete and return any cancellation slip provided.
  
• Obtain a certificate of posting or keep of a copy of your email as proof of cancellation
  
• Keep any goods supplied safe until collected.
  

Failure To Give Notice Of Cancellation Rights

 

If you have signed a contract/credit agreement at home and you have not been given cancellation rights, the agreement may not be enforceable against you and the supplier may have committed an offence.

Thanks Martin

 

I have been through this with CAB and CD and TS, I was not left a copy of the credit agreement or sent a copy of my cancellation rights from BPF. I did not know I was missing any paperwork until CAB told me.

 

As I do not sign up to contracts like this every day, I did not really know what was meant to be handed to me by the Advent Rep. I asked for my credit agreement to be sent to me from BPF as advised by TS. Once they sent me a copy (free of Charge) I then sent them a cancellation letter within 5 days of receiving the agreement (which was received by BPF) I have had no reply. I sent this about 4 weeks ago. I am going to contact TS tomorrow to find out where i stand with this

[cjclegg]

the contract most of us have has no info on our cancellation rights only "you have a short time in which to cancel", does this count for anything?

[Boosh]

the contract most of us have has no info on our cancellation rights only "you have a short time in which to cancel", does this count for anything?

Yes!!! if you continue readin the contract it says 'We will send you this shortly' or words to that effect.

 

As I was never left this contract in my posession, the cancellation rights only stand once you've received the canceletion rights it's self.

 

 

I asked barclays for this letter and they said they don't have a copy!!!

 

But I only recieved the contact which was then left in my posession last month (after asking them to send me a copy), so I sent a cancellation letter to BPF within 5 days and the have not replied or even sent me a ltter saying they are dealing with it

[Bluedo]

Yes!!! if you continue readin the contract it says 'We will send you this shortly' or words to that effect.

 

As I was never left this contract in my posession, the cancellation rights only stand once you've received the canceletion rights it's self.

 

 

I asked barclays for this letter and they said they don't have a copy!!!

 

But I only recieved the contact which was then left in my posession last month (after asking them to send me a copy), so I sent a cancellation letter to BPF within 5 days and the have not replied or even sent me a ltter saying they are dealing with it

 

Boosh are you referring to the advance date for payment to Advent You will be notified we will send this shortly I'd like to know did BPF send the full amount or did they wait till the due date to begin payments in which case They'll not have paid nothing for me but will want me to pay them and I never received any notification

Edited March 28, 2010 by Bluedo
missed a bit

[Boosh]

Boosh are you referring to the advance date for payment to Advent we will send this shortly I'd like to know did BPF send the full amount or did they wait till the due date to begin payments in which case They'll not have paid nothing for me but will want me to pay them

Hi Bluedo

 

When I took all my documents to the CAB office they said I was missing my credit agreement from BPF. I know for a fact that I kept all my paperwork together so it meant that the advent rep did not leave me a copy of my signed credit agreement from BPF and on that contract it says we will send you a copy of your cancellation rights shortly

 

By not leaving me this, I had a right to ask for a copy(from BPF), and once I received this copy I had 5 days to cancel as we all did.

 

On receiveing this copy, I phoned BPF and explained what TS had said and asked for a letter of my cancellation rights which I also was not sent a copy of from BPFand when i asked them for a copy of the cancellation rights they refused (or said they did not have the letter which was "originally" sent to me)

 

So I spoke with TS and explained what BPF said to me and they said send a letter of cancellation anyway as you have only just received your credit agreement

 

Unfortunately most of you will have had this from when you signed with the rep but you should have also received another letter explaining your cancelletion rights

 

I hope this all makes sense

[Bluedo]

Nope I didn't have the contract agreement either only when this all happened I was looking for it and discovered it wasn't there I requested a copy the other week and funnily enough without sending the £1 that is usual they sent the signed copy but I had 2 identical pages of the terms and they can take advantage when you don't know that these things matter like I didn't know but I'm learning on here

[Boosh]

Nope I didn't have the contract agreement either only when this all happened I was looking for it and discovered it wasn't there I requested a copy the other week and funnily enough without sending the £1 that is usual they sent the signed copy but I had 2 identical pages of the terms and they can take advantage when you don't know that these things matter like I didn't know but I'm learning on here

 

it's crap isnt it, if you received it a couple of weeks ago the it's too late to go down the same path I did but even so, they still haven't replied to mine anyway

[mantaxi]

martin 3030 your posts are most interesting and you state above Most contracts will be legally binding and enforceable as soon as they are made. The supplier must deliver the goods or services mentioned in the contract and the customer must pay the purchase price. advent have not kept thier part of the bargain so therefore contract broken we should be entitled to money back under s75.

[Boosh]

martin 3030 your posts are most interesting and you state above Most contracts will be legally binding and enforceable as soon as they are made. The supplier must deliver the goods or services mentioned in the contract and the customer must pay the purchase price. advent have not kept thier part of the bargain so therefore contract broken we should be entitled to money back under s75.

Hi Mantaxi

 

I completely agree with you but the contract allows BPF to fullfill the contract so unless we find a really good reason why CT isn't good enough then what choice do we have

 

I just hope that the misselling of the original contract will be enough or that computeach is not like for like

 

I want out of any distance learning

 

Sorry, don't want to see the glass as half empty, i'm trying everything I can too

[Bluedo]

I enquired on the Hitachi thread about what they did that got them to refund apparantly Hitachi said they were accepting their obligations under the cca 1974 and were offering refunds.

That makes me think that BPF are also obligated under the cca1974 just they think that providing Computeach is doing that. It's the arrogance of them that they can just foist this on us and think we'll just go along with it.

Your right Mantaxi the goods and services are not being provided we've got nothing we should be refunded not forced to do what they say I'm sure they can't have that right to dictate