Help with DCA

[vrockie]

Hi All

 

I have a thread on the Formal Solutions: Bankruptcy, Administration Orders and IVAs Forum called Voluntary or Involutary. My wife has had first phone call from DCA and I would appreciate some advice to next move.

 

Thanks in advance

[Bazooka Boo]

Well the very first bit of advice, is to never speak with these Neanderthals over the phone.

 

If they ring and you have caller ID then do not answer, or if you mistakenly pick up the phone and then realise it is a DCA then simply tell them 'everything in writing' and put the phone down.

 

Send them the telephone harassment letter

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/52-harassment/135--harassment-by-telephone-response-letter-

 

You need to keep EVERYTHING in writing, that way then you will have a paper trail of evidence, should you require it.

Plus they are less inclined to bully and swear at you in a letter as opposed to over the phone.

You could always invest in a TrueCall:D

 

The next question is, how much debt is there for you to be looking at the IVA forum?

What is the debt, is it secured/unsecured, Credit Cards, loans, Business debt??

 

Youv'e come to the right place for help and assistance.

 

Boo;)

[vrockie]

Hi Bazooka, I wasn't looking at the IVA forum - more the bankrupcy.

 

I will try to explain my situation.

 

My wife ran a franchise for 3 years (sole trader) which has ceased trading just before christmas. The business left debts of £8600 to RBS on an overdraft, £1000 to Lloyds an another overdraft and £6500 to the franchisor for stock. She also has liabiliy to the landlord for rent for the next 2 years at £12000 per year and the franchisor regarding broken contract which I expect them to sue for around £24000.

 

I have been supporting the business to the tune of around £50k made up of 2nd charge on house, £15k loan and credit cards to the tune of £9k.

 

My own work has slowed down and I have had to contact CCCS and offer my own debtors (some of these are joint) pro rata payments for the time being which I am relieved to say they have been ok about.

 

The main problem at the moment is the franchisor who has instructed Watson Hope as their DCA.

 

We recieved the following letter on 13th Jan

 

Watson Hope & Co

Accountants

Po Box 2960

London

NW3 7HX

 

Tel: 0208 84588864

 

[email protected]

Ref: xxxxxxxx

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam

 

Re: OVERDUE ACCOUNT xxxxxxxxxxxx £9000

 

 

We are debt collectors acting for xxxxxxxx xxx in relation to the above. The debt has not been paid despite reminders and we are now instructed to collect it from you forthwith.

 

If you have reason why not to pay your debt please will you advise us immediately. Otherwise would you please now make out your cheque for £9000 and send it to this address by return.

 

you may want to take legal advice because failing reply our instructions are to claim against you with a view to instructing bailliffs. Note, this will be without further reference to you whether as to costs or otherwise.

 

Alternatively if you are in financial difficulties you must contact this office with your proposals also by return.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Watkins Hope

 

We replied stating that the account is in dispute as they have added an extortionate £2500 to the bill for manuals, signage and the till which I have also agreed to return at their convienence, and I have mentioned that the case is being looked into by my MP and also for a breakdown of the debt.

 

Wife had first phone call from the DCA on tuesday (bring back hanging I say) anyway, basically they are refusing to reply to our letter asking for a breakdown of disputed debt charges, also saying that my MP has no legal right to advise me and will be going for a court order in 7 days if debt is not paid. When my wife said she was not willling to discuss over the phone they said if she wanted a letter it would cost an extra £400 on our debt each time a letter was sent out.

 

Can you advise if there are any legal process' which the DCA has to abide by as in time scales, answering our letters etc?

 

How long does a court order take to get and does this mean they are applying for a CCJ or does a CO just allow them to employ a baillif who will then force entry to my home?

 

Can I have a CO put aside?

 

Looks like they are going straight for the jugular.

 

Appreciate if you could help as am looking to say sod it and fill in the bankruptcy app tomorrow and make appointment for court.

[hillards]

saying that my MP has no legal right to advise me

But perhaps has an illegal right to do that then ? I'm sure your MP will not be worried that they don't have the legal right to advise you...

they said if she wanted a letter it would cost an extra £400 on our debt each time a letter was sent out.

Of course, you need that in writing, otherwise they are free to make up different charges every time, perhaps £500 next letter? All ammo to slap them back with. Without giving a list of charges they are applying they don't have a leg to stand on in claiming them.

 

The basic rules are not to talk to these people. Insist all communiction is in writing, so you have proof of who said what and when, and don't be intimidated by them. DCA' s have zero power do so anything. They will say they MAY take further action, they COULD sell your granny - you will learn to look for such words in their letters.

 

I appreciate that this is a substantial amount, and is on a business venture, not personal. The matter would still have to go before a court before a DCA can request action by a bailiff, or obtain a charging order on property. As long as you follow the rules if/when this happens, and attend the court, the judge will listen to your reasoning and would not force you to pay more than you can afford.

 

It's only if people ignore court action, and have a CCJ issued against them, which they continue to ignore, that the nasty bailiff stuff starts to happen. The DCA cannot instruct bailiffs, only if a court order has been breached. You would be well aware of any such action being possible if it got that far.

 

Taking something like this to court does take time, although some companies act quicker than others. There are no real time limits on answering letters, unless they are in connection with points of law. Sending a CCA request isn't going to get anywhere in this case as it's business, not consumer.

 

Companies like CCCS are not that helpful either. My step-daughter used them, then discovered they were making payments several weeks after they had taken money from her account. Not only was that resulting in DCA's calling her again, CCCS must have been getting interest on the money being in their account. They were hopeless at setting up agreements, once DCA refused to deal with them and she was back to square one with demands.

 

POBox 2960, London, NW3 7HX tracks back to Wise & Co, chartered accountants, as well as WISER MINDS LTD. there is a website at Debt Collection London : Wise & Co. too. That contains some dubious tales as well, click on the 'Articles' tab and read how they duped a former neighbour into giving out someone's new address ! Click on their Terms & Conditioons link and that reveals clause 2 - "...We debt collect under the trade name Watkins Hope not as Wise & Co. You agree to respect our anonymity and not to mention Wise & Co."

 

Still wanting a chuckle - scroll down to the bottom of this page - Usefull data a - aggregate, sand, pea-shingle - a small advert reads:

 

Anyone owing you money?

We have just the right sized baseball bat.

 

Alternatively we just charm the money out of them.

 

No result no fee.

Leslie M Wise FCA,

Wise & Co,

PO Box 2960,

London NW3 7HX,

Tel 0208 455 7259

Fax 0208 458 8864

 

charming!

 

DCA's are there to intimidate, pressurise, harass and abuse (alleged) debtors into paying up. If you can see past the mirrors and smoke and realise they are nothing more than big bullies then you're off to a good start. Take legal advice if you wish.

 

My own advice would be to dump CCCS and deal with matters yourself if you can. Lots of threads on this site about them, and how they were set up by the financial institutions in the first place. It is not in their interest to dispute debts, they just admit everything and pay up. Same with court action, don't let them fill forms in for you as they will probably accept liability and offer no defence.

 

Now you are here, spend some time reading other threads and empower yourself with knowledge!

[Bazooka Boo]

Wow, this really is one corrupt close to the bone company!

How the devil they can continue to operate is anyones guess:eek:

 

We also invite the debtor to pay our fees. Some do. And where appropriate we ensure they also pay YOU your entitlement to Statutory interest.

You can invite all you like, unfortunately as their is no contract or written agreement that any such 'debtor' has entered into, these fees are unlawful and would not be payable by the debtor.

 

Some debtors can be difficult/aggressive. We debt collect under the trade name Watkins Hope not as Wise & Co. You agree to respect our anonymity and not to mention Wise & Co.

Dear oh dear, I wonder if the OFT are aware of this?

 

Where the debtor needs chasing abroad we charge and you agree to pay 25% on sums collected.

And which Law will you be using to cahse them abroad? Seeing as English Law will not apply in a foreign country?

 

We charge and you agree to pay a £15 "wild goose chase" fee where we are instructed to collect monies, a) which had already been paid to you or b) regarding which you withdraw instructions after we have acted.

"A wild Goose Chase" Are you for real? What sort of mickey mouse company is this that employs children to write their T&C's?

 

Court action is taken only on your specific request and after a full explanation to you of what is involved. We set it up for you. If you sue you agree to pay the Court Issue fee. We do not charge 15% on court fees recovered.

Now thats re-assuring to know. I wonder if it is because you know that you won't have a leg to stand on when you get a spotty teenager who mormaly flips burgers, to put your case to the judge!

 

On business debts we also try to recover your entitlement to interest and compensation if significant. If we succeed, we go halves.

"We go halves"

That is quality, funnier than 'Valid even if not read by you' Ha ha, We go halves!

 

If satisfied you will recommend us.

I wouldn't even trust you to put the toilet seat down.

 

For good housekeeping please might you acknowledge receipt and acceptance.

Wow, now that really is some statement, acknowledge receipt and acceptance of what exactly?

 

Is this company for real? I would really question it's authenticity, this is like one of those spam emails you receive trying to get your bank details for winning the nigerian lottery!

 

I would have a very hard time taking them seriously having read their website.

If these ever took you to court, I would be rubbing my hands with glee, becuase they wouldn't be able to string a sentence together let alone seek repayment.

 

An obliging neighbour helpfully gave our man an address for the "birthday flowers" he claimed he wanted to deliver. The debtor was so surprised to be located he paid up without further fuss.

Ah yes the true sign of a professional ethical DCA.

[vrockie]

I couldn't agree more Boo, my daughter could put together a better website at age 11. Your views of them are exactly what I thought when I recieved their first letter and checked their website out, I still cannot believe that this guy reckons on being a chartered accountant AND a barrister, when he can't even put a sentence together grammatically.

 

Did I spell that right? If not, I am going straight to the Wise & Co school of law!

 

On a more serious note, should I write again stating that I still want a breakdown of monies owed. Would it also be worth adding one of the template letters stating if they send anyone they will not be allowed in to my home or something that shows I mean business and will not be bullied by them, are there any types of letter I can send stating legal clauses etc to confuse the hell out of them.

 

Thanks Boo & Hillards

[vrockie]

bump

[vrockie]

bump

[Bazooka Boo]

OK, the 'threat' of bailiffs is just that, any judge reading that letter including the OFT, would/should seriously rap their knuckles for it as they are clearly attempting to exploit your lack of knowledge surrounding debt collection activity.

 

Take some time to read the OFT's debt collection guidelines.

 

This will give you a better understanding and knowledge of what and how they should be behaving.

 

This is the letter to send the buffoons if they threaten doorstep collectors;

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/590-letter-used-when-a-dca-threatens-a-doorstep-visit-

 

NO BAILIFF will enter your property without first going to court and obtaining a Judgement or CCJ against you, then you have to fail to abide by that judgement, then they have to take you back to court where you will have to explain why you ignored the judge and failed to pay, then the JUDGE, will decide on the best course of action to get the debt paid. This might be an attachment of earning, or bailiffs.

 

So when they threaten bailiffs, unless you have been taken to court and a CCJ has been obtained, and you have failed to abide by that judgement, then and only then can a certified bailiff be instructed to remove goods.

 

The only way to get a breakdown of cost would be to SAR the original creditor, and from the information they provide you should be able to work out what you owe the OC and what the DCA has added on top as charges, which you won't have to pay, unless a Judge says so.

 

You can try getting the info out of these lot, but from the looks of them, their left arm don't know what the right one is doing!

 

Have you tried sending them the 'No debt acknowledged letter?

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/573-general-debt-letter-if-you-know-nothing-of-the-debt

 

Have a read through the other templates and see if any fit your situation;The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

 

Boo;)

[vrockie]

Hey Bazooka you wont believe this.

 

I sent the DCA a letter stating that we still require a breakdown and any further comms will only be accepted in writing.

 

Received a reply the other day, exactly the same letter as recieved before except the amount owed and a paragraph added in which says (and spelling mistakes and grammar are as letter)

 

THNK YOU FOR YOUR LETTER OF 25TH JAN. WE NOW ENCLOSE A (added in at this point in pen "copy of a") DETAILED STATEMENT AND LOOK FORWARD FOR YOUR PROPOSAL AS PROMISED OF SETTLEMENT. (added in pen "please")

 

The breakdown of the sums owed was indeed a copy, on the reverse side of the breakdown is an official Notice Of Immigration Decision of which the applicant has been refused entry clearance to the UK.

 

The dumb DCA has scribbled out the immirants name and put a sticker over it, BUT and it is a big BUT hold the a4 paper up to the light and I can see the applicant is from Sri Lanka and their date of birth. Now OK, as least I can't see their name BUT and an even BIGGER BUT read down the letter and after a few points of evidence taken to come to the decision, there is the applicants SONS name.

 

I have got to complain about this as this DCA obviously cannot be trusted with information. Do I send this to the OFT or someone else? I am also thinking about writing back and saying that I will not give any further information as they are incompetent.

 

What do you all think

[Bazooka Boo]

YOU ARE KIDDING ME!:shock:

 

Inept incompetent morons! (moron=carrot in welsh?)

 

Make a copy of the letter they sent you, then give the ICO a ring Complaints - Privacy & electronic communication - ICO tell them what you have and how best to send it to them for investigation.

 

Make a formal complaint to the OFT, & TS via Consumer Direct

 

Also inform your local MP about this soon to be 'out of work' company.

 

BBC Watchdog, would also like a good laugh, and stop all correspondence to them (DCA) regarding the alleged debt, and file a formal complaint with their data controller.

Who will probably reply on the back of a fag packet:rolleyes:

 

Their stupidity knows no bounds! Really!

[macgaz]

I was today contacted by one of these clowns. a messrs Watson Hope & Co of NW3 7HX. They pass themselves off as accountants and solicitors and their bank account is in the name of Wise Watkins Hope (hmmm, I wonder if I can pass their details on to a Nigerian friend of mine). Neither names appear on Companies House. they are not registered with the law society. They are not registered as bona fide Accountants. Their phone number 0208 4557259 is simply an answering machine. Their postcode traces to an address in Hampstead which is registered to Hampstead Tea and Coffee Ltd. Their letters are ungrammatical and are not couched in the sort of language you would expect from a proper accountant/solicitor. The debt is not a real debt and is simply a disgruntled ex-employee who is trying to [problem] us for more money. I have now passed the matter to the police asking them to register it as attempted extortion and harassment.

 

I have put as much information here as I can because I want to make sure that other people can find this when they do a google search. Do not bother with contacting a solicitor. Call the police and report them for extortion. These people prey on vulnerable people like OAPs and people who have no experience of the world. I will do my bit to make their world a little harder.