Roxburghe letters!!

[SillyMoo]

I have had 2 letters passed on to me from my sister, letters delivered to her house, (We only lived there for 5 months).

 

They said I owe 2 debts to Hutchinson 3G.

 

They have called my mothers house today, and unfortunately my sister answered and gave them my house number.

 

They called the house, Hubby answered and took the message and told them never to call my mother's house again as I have never even lived there.

So how that got that number is beyond us.

 

The question I ask now is can I sent the prove it letter to the Email address supplied on the letters, or do I send them to the PO Box.

 

That is were i see a problem as you cannot get anyone to sign for a recorded delivery.

 

I have searched the forum for what you can write at the bottom of letters, as regards the postal act, but cannot find it.

 

 

I also need to do the telecommunications thing as well, can this all be done via the email supplied.

 

enquiries @ roxburghe .com

 

 

Thanks in advance for any info help and support

[themagician]

I have had 2 letters passed on to me from my sister, letters delivered to her house, (We only lived there for 5 months).

 

They said I owe 2 debts to Hutchinson 3G.

 

They have called my mothers house today, and unfortunately my sister answered and gave them my house number.

 

They called the house, Hubby answered and took the message and told them never to call my mother's house again as I have never even lived there.

So how that got that number is beyond us.

 

The question I ask now is can I sent the prove it letter to the Email address supplied on the letters, or do I send them to the PO Box.

 

That is were i see a problem as you cannot get anyone to sign for a recorded delivery.

 

I have searched the forum for what you can write at the bottom of letters, as regards the postal act, but cannot find it.

 

 

I also need to do the telecommunications thing as well, can this all be done via the email supplied.

 

enquiries @ roxburghe .com

 

 

Thanks in advance for any info help and support

sorry confused !! Quote " they called my mothers house ! then you say they called my house ,i assume you mean by phone ? otherwise " they called at my house ! different ball game.can you enlighten us please.

[SillyMoo]

Called as in Rang my mothers house.

 

Sister answered phone, gave them my House Number.

 

Hubby spoke with them, and told them never to call my mothers house again.

 

 

I know they will call here, All I will confirm is my name.

 

Anything else they ask I refuse to give them as I don't know who I am talking to.

 

 

So do we send the prove it letters via email or do I have to send to PO Box, with no one been there to sign when it is delivered.

 

Also the request to stop the calls.

 

 

As I have said above, I have seen some Jargon written at the bottom of letters, I believe it is something to do with the postal act.

 

That means provide i can prove proof of posting the the acceptance of delivery is no my concern.

[emandcole]

Hi, I'd get the letters off (CCA I assume?) and just use the address given by them regardless of it being a PO Box address. Most people have no difficulty getting a recorded delivery signed for and I for one have always found a proof of delivery on the Royal Mail tracker easy enough.

 

If the only address they send you is a PO Box how else are you reasonably expected to communicate with them? Send it recorded and let them worry about the rest

[SillyMoo]

Hi, I'd get the letters off (CCA I assume?) and just use the address given by them regardless of it being a PO Box address. Most people have no difficulty getting a recorded delivery signed for and I for one have always found a proof of delivery on the Royal Mail tracker easy enough.

 

If the only address they send you is a PO Box how else are you reasonably expected to communicate with them? Send it recorded and let them worry about the rest

 

 

I am on about the prove it letter, and the phone call letter.

 

Not sure what you mean about a CCA?

 

Other thing is, Do I now make sure I supply my new address for correspondence ?

[emandcole]

What do you mean by a 'prove it ' letter? What would this letter seek to establish and how would you word it? Just trying to determine what your understanding is so we don't get confused.

[SillyMoo]

This one from here

 

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

OR ANY COMPANY YOUR PURPORT TO REPRESENT

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

XXX Ref:

Client Ref:

 

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself

 

I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (XXXX)

 

I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

 

This letter is also sent Via Email

[emandcole]

If the debt is yours there would be little point sending that as sooner or later they'll get round it/ignore it and use your avoidance as justification to issue litigation very quickly.

 

Of course if the debt is not yours then sending something of this nature would suffice.

 

If the debt is yours you'd be better addressing it straight away and sending a CCA request in order to establish the credibility of their claim.

 

Is this a legitimate debt as your choice of letter needs to reflect this?

[Uptotheneck]

A CCA request is no good in this case, mobile phone contracts are not covered by CCA 1974. Send the prove it letter first, if they come back with something then send a SAR to the mobile phone company.

 

 

Regards

 

 

David

[emandcole]

Ah, didn't know it was a phone contract. Ok, send your letter recorded delivery and see what comes back

 

Probably best to avoid all phone contact with them, if it becomes excessive you can issue a demand requiring them to stop hassling you and keep all communication in writing.

[SillyMoo]

Truthfully, I am not sure, as I have never used 3G myself, but I may have stood as guarantor for 1 of my Lads,but this would have been some time ago,and was done over the phone, as I have been with Voda for over 5yrs as I recall.

 

I have 100% definitely never signed anything for an agreement with 3G.

 

Surely the prove it letter first, then ask for this agreement that I have allegedly entered into.

 

Not sure :-|

[SillyMoo]

A CCA request is no good in this case, mobile phone contracts are not covered by CCA 1974. Send the prove it letter first, if they come back with something then send a SAR to the mobile phone company.

 

 

Regards

 

 

David

 

Ah, didn't know it was a phone contract. Ok, send your letter recorded delivery and see what comes back

 

Probably best to avoid all phone contact with them, if it becomes excessive you can issue a demand requiring them to stop hassling you and keep all communication in writing.

 

 

Thank you for your help both

 

 

2 letters going out for each account.

 

Shall I also inform them of my new Adrress

[emandcole]

Yes, send the prove it and see what comes of that first of all. When you get something back remove your details from a photocopy of the original and get it on here so we can check it out. Take it one step at a time

[emandcole]

As for your address the chances are they'll obtain it anyway, if you give them the luxury of using a trace department they'll only add a silly cost to the balance making things worse. Get them to prove it to substantiate their claim and you will be in the right position to progress as needed.

 

Unless you're plannnig to hop on a plane to a country with no agreements with the UK to help enforce such a debt you're best off dealing with it now rather than giving them the chance to inflate the balance with all sorts of charges and fees. It is after all a phone balance and not a mortgage so surely it's not ridiculous? Hope not anyway

[SillyMoo]

Thanks, as regards the amount they have, it is just under £1k for both

[emandcole]

Ouch! Yep, definitely prove it! And if they're not yours I'd ask whoever ran that up to start saving just in case...especially if it's in your name! :-|

[SillyMoo]

Here is a letter from Roxburghe, as regards our prove it letter, We certainly recall the company HFO, on other my file's I have 2 different amount's compared to the 2 amounts now. (But Possibly the same).

 

Plus I recall what they have wrote at the bottom of the letter about fraud, We remember calling the police for a crime number, but we could not prove a crime was committed, we explained what the company told us, they said well tell them to report as that, and they will investigate.

 

I guess I will receive another letter shortly as I did them both separate.

 

what's next then

 

 

[emandcole]

Unless you can show, or the police can prove, that fraud has taken place it will be the named contract holder who is liable for the entire debt.

 

Unless you can do that it is best to try and obtain the contract paperwork together with full statement details and proof of their right to collect on any debt under a supposed assignment.

 

In the meantime if you know that someone has ran this phone debt up I would get them to start saving as given the dates involved it is unlikely that the phone provider has not got all of the paperwork they need. You stated earlier that this is in your name but it was someone else who used the phone? I feel it will only be a matter of time before this will be chased with increasing seriousness.

 

I would send a Subject Access Request to Roxburgh asking them to provide all of this information so that you can assess the situation fully. Irrespective of this not falling under the CCA 2006 they still need to produce a contract of some kind. This is likely to be a stalling tactic at best however, unless they cannot produce a valid signed contract.

[ODC]

Do NOT waste £10 sending an SAR to Roxburghe as this would be pointless. An SAR should always be sent to the ORIGINAL creditor as they are the people who should have the ORIGINAL contract.

 

Write to Roxburghe asking for proof that the debt exists and that a written contract existed between you and Hutchinson 3G. Also ask for proof that the debt was legally assigned to them in accordance with S136 of the Law of Property Act 1925

[emandcole]

ODC, do you know what the correct procedure is for sure as have read cases in the past of the original creditor being sent a SAR, which is then returned as they no longer have the information or do not wish to deal with an account that has been sold on?

 

My thinking is if Roxburghe are now the legal owners they should be able to respond in full, and if they do not have the original contract there is the added advantage that they will then have a duty as the current legal owners to obtain the contract. Two birds, one stone type approach .

[ODC]

Roxburghe may be the Legal Owners of the ALLEGED debt but it is very unlikely that they would have received any proof from Hutchinsons when they bought the debt. All they buy is a CD with the names and addresses along with details of the amounts owing. Under money laundering regulations I believe Hutchinson should have kept the contracts for 6 yrs

[emandcole]

Agree, can be up to 7 years depending on where the year falls. Sillymoo, send the SAR to Hutchinson, should get you everything you will need. Let us know what you get back.

[SillyMoo]

Truthfully, I am not sure, as I have never used 3G myself, but I may have stood as guarantor for 1 of my Lads,but this would have been some time ago,and was done over the phone, as I have been with Voda for over 5yrs as I recall.

 

I have 100% definitely never signed anything for an agreement with 3G.

 

Surely the prove it letter first, then ask for this agreement that I have allegedly entered into.

 

Not sure :-|

 

Unless you can show, or the police can prove, that fraud has taken place it will be the named contract holder who is liable for the entire debt.

 

Unless you can do that it is best to try and obtain the contract paperwork together with full statement details and proof of their right to collect on any debt under a supposed assignment.

 

In the meantime if you know that someone has ran this phone debt up I would get them to start saving as given the dates involved it is unlikely that the phone provider has not got all of the paperwork they need. You stated earlier that this is in your name but it was someone else who used the phone? I feel it will only be a matter of time before this will be chased with increasing seriousness.

 

I would send a Subject Access Request to Roxburgh asking them to provide all of this information so that you can assess the situation fully. Irrespective of this not falling under the CCA 2006 they still need to produce a contract of some kind. This is likely to be a stalling tactic at best however, unless they cannot produce a valid signed contract.

 

Just Highlighted above, Unsure about the bit for my lad, but it could be possible,even so it would have been paid.

 

Again I am certain I have had nothing with Hutchinson3g.

[SillyMoo]

Do NOT waste £10 sending an SAR to Roxburghe as this would be pointless. An SAR should always be sent to the ORIGINAL creditor as they are the people who should have the ORIGINAL contract.

 

Write to Roxburghe asking for proof that the debt exists and that a written contract existed between you and Hutchinson 3G. Also ask for proof that the debt was legally assigned to them in accordance with S136 of the Law of Property Act 1925

 

Roxburghe do not own the debt, the letter clearly say's it belongs to "HFO Capital", and they have been seconded to aquire the debt.

 

Agree, can be up to 7 years depending on where the year falls. Sillymoo, send the SAR to Hutchinson, should get you everything you will need. Let us know what you get back.

 

 

So I just send a letter with my name, current address, D.O.B, what about any previous address that this alleged debt belongs to.

 

Do we have a template letter.

 

Shall go and look first before asking

 

 

Thanks for quick replies

[emandcole]

Use this and adjust so that any reference to an agreement relates instead to a contract. Send recorded and keep the proof of postage, print off the proof of delivery once Royal Mail have updated their site . Some of the below won't apply but they'll just provide what they can anyway, I've not ever heard of anyone who got exactly what they've asked for. Use a postal order for the £10 fee.

 

YOUR ADDRESS

 

 

DATE

 

 

ACCOUNT/REF:

 

Data Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to ask for your assistance with the provision of documentation relating to the above referenced account. Accordingly I enclose the sum of £10 in postal order form and trust you will comply fully and within the timescales applicable.

There are various acts covering your obligation to have maintained a full account history, which you will be aware of. I will therefore expect a full history for each account in my name as you have a legal obligation to hold this information for 6 years after any account has been closed and in some cases depending on tax dates, for 7 years.

Simply because an account may officially be closed will not substantiate a claim that I have no right to see it. If you are unwilling to provide me with any of the account details from closed accounts please provide me with your justification and source of information you rely upon to establish the lawfulness of your position. In the interests of clarity however I would suggest the bank is entirely co-operative from this point forward.

As such, please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my complete history with your organisation from the very outset (do not limit this to 6 years, I require the complete history). Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable, for any and all accounts that I may have held which demonstrate the debt total you are demanding.

I require an exhaustive search, and will need to see all records you hold on me, this is not a disproportionate request given the nature of the Termination notice issued. This should include but is not limited to:

· Copies of all terms and conditions applicable to any and all accounts to demonstrate any contractual right the bank relies upon to support its charge policies and copies of any terms and conditions that have been varied since the inception of any account.

· A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of any credit amount and any repayments made to any accounts.

· Where there has been any event in the alleged account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, such as to impose penalty fines, or increase credit limits, or make adjustments to the interest rate, then I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention. If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

· Copies of any cancellation rights sent to me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

· True copies of all default notices or enforcement notices that you claim to have sent me (there are 3 as of today’s date listed with Equifax), with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

· Documents relating to any insurance added to any account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and the date it was deleted. Plus, all pre-sales training notes for your employees underwriting and advising on such contracts of insurance, and any sales notes made during the negotiation and sale of such insurance.

· Details of any penalty or other collection charges added to any and all accounts; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

· Specific details of the fees or charges levied by any other agency in respect of any account and a detailed breakdown of said fees or charges, what each charge relates to and on what date said fees or charges were levied.

· A copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998.

· A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a detailed summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

· Policy notes in relation to payment demands whilst any account was in dispute, and at any other time when additional payment demands were authorised.

· Document management records and policy notes in relation to any documents handled, copied or destroyed during the lifetime of any account.

· Full copies of all contracts, which you believe, exist between myself and your organisation, including copies of any documents you hold in support of it.

· Details of the identity of any individuals or organisations who have provided you with my personal information together with copies of any letters of instruction provided by them, or any contracts entered into between yourselves and the third party, and the relevant dates to which those contracts related.

· Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contracts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

· Full details and copies of any documents upon which you replied when you have provided my personal or financial information to any individual, organisation or third party.

· Full copies or transcripts of any computer logs or database records kept in relation to myself or in relation to my financial or personal information.

· Details of all systems you currently have in place to ensure my personal or financial information is kept securely, including details of those officers who currently have control of same, and at the time it was held or provided to a third party.

· Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

· Full hard copy printouts of any of my personal or financial information held in a digital, magnetic or any other format, which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices/locations.

· Your registration number with the Information Commissioners Office.

· Your Consumer Credit Licence number.

· Full copies of any correspondence in postal, email or any format which you have entered into with any individual, organisation or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to myself.

· True copies of any applications for credit or for current/business accounts held, together with a declaration from the bank indicating if it is a true or reconstructed copy.

· All documentation confirming overdrafts for any accounts as these form a substantial part of the outstanding sum.

· Any and all sundry information applicable to the account not requested above.

If there is specific information, which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Please note that the Postal orders I have supplied are NOT to be applied to any alleged debt but used only for purposes supplied.

Yours Faithfully,

 

PRINT NAME DON’T SIGN