Welcome Finance Secured Loan Nightmare

[BEBOBEBO]

Bump!

[ozzywizard]

Also does it make any difference that the agreement is with PROGRESSIVE FINANCIAL SERVICES LIMITED trading as welcome financial services of mere way

 

No differance at all .

[BEBOBEBO]

is it enforceable??

[ozzywizard]

Also does it make any difference that the agreement is with PROGRESSIVE FINANCIAL SERVICES LIMITED trading as welcome financial services of mere way

 

This does not make it unenforceable.

[ozzywizard]

Either tonight or tomorrow night after work I will check your full agreement and breakdown your costs for you and we will then decide if it is enforceable.

 

i also have a statement from them where the opening balance is £20452.35 where does this figure come into it if the total amount of credit is £18591.90.

 

Add 18591.90 to your MIF and acceptance fee and you get this figure of 20452.35 .

Edited February 6, 2010 by ozzywizard

[BEBOBEBO]

Thankyou so much for you help

[ozzywizard]

I not forgot Bebo, hopefully get this done tonight for ya . off to work again in 10 mins grr. . .

[Sand-Dancer0191]

it looks like you need somebody to look and advise on

1 the lifecare

2 the ppi

3 the mortgage indemnity fee.

Repost and try to get a reply from a more senios cagger

[ozzywizard]

Bebo, this is being looked into on your other thread right ?

[BEBOBEBO]

Thats brilliant thankyou

[ozzywizard]

No probs.

[emanevs]

It looks like this agreement did not have the loan secured against your property! -

 

however, you might have signed something else to give them permission to put a legal charge on the property, and in any event they might just add your address details to the top of it. -

 

MIF on a loan is a no no, especially as the loan is less than 20k . MIF are only for mortgages.

 

I also think this a multiple loan agreement.

 

it appears that you have actually been loaned

 

18591 (amount of credit)

235 (acceptance fee)

1625.45 (MIF)

 

total of 20,451.45 @ 417.19 for 120 months = 23.9%

 

As the total amount of credit is incorrect, I would say that your agreement is unenforceable.

[BEBOBEBO]

Thanks emanevs, thats great, should i have a signature from welcome too on the agreement as there isnt one.I do know that the loan has been registered as a charge on the property so i think it was just them being sloppy as usual and not filling the details right.

 

What do i do now>

[Et Contra Pacem Regis]

wow, hold on there Emanevs - the amount of credit cannot include a charge for credit (Consumer Credit Act 1974, section 9(4)). That means that if Welcome did include the acceptance fee and MIF in the total amount of credit, the agreement would be unenforceable per Wilson v First Counties Trust.

The arguement you are making has in essence already been tried in Walker v Southern Pacific Personal Loans, and rejected by the court of appeal.

Unfair though it is, it seems that lenders can charge interest on their fees.

 

Bebobebo: sloppy or not, it's still a breach of the regulations to omit those details. Do you recall any other documents which you might have signed to create the charge, or was this it? Did you understand that it was going to be secured on your house, even though they didn't fill in the agreement properly?

Did you recieve a "pre-contract information" copy of that agreement, and have 14 days to think about it prior to signing in the branch?

[BEBOBEBO]

yeah just wanted to attract interest

[BEBOBEBO]

been trying to remember, I certainly didnt have 14 days before signing, cant recall signing any other documents I just recieved a charge on the property a few days after.

[ozzywizard]

I understand no worries, just wanted to check I wasnt losing the plot and you had more than one agreement. lol.

[BEBOBEBO]

No mate one is enough

[ozzywizard]

Ok Bob, hope im ok to call you bob lol, actually your a gurlie right so will go for Bobby hehe. . .

 

To start off the MIF is a serious no no and incorrect.

There should also be a signature on the agreement from welcome and an address of who loan is secured with.

 

ET asked you

Did you recieve a "pre-contract information" copy of that agreement, and have 14 days to think about it prior to signing in the branch?

 

You say you cannot remember, this is important........ please discuss with your OH and come back with an answer if you possibly can.

 

ET is also correct in his post that if the MIF or acceptance fee is included in the credit it is unenforceable.

 

Ok time to do some number crunching on your loan.

 

Your loan is £14,776.85 over 120 months at 27.5% apr

 

thats a monthly repayment of £331.40

interest £24,991.80

total payable £39,768.65

 

Insurance

 

Insurance £3815.05 over 120 months at 27.5% apr

 

interest £6,452.32

monthly payment £85.56

total payable £10,267.37

 

total interest is £31,444.12 plus loan of £14,776.85 is 46,220.97 plus insurance is total amount repayable 50,036.02 ok sorry still not finished we now add the acceptance fee of 235 and the MIF of 1625.45 to give grand total of 51,896.47 divide by 120 to give a monthly figure of £432.47 . . this is a huge loan and welcome are seriously out on their figures as paying welcome their monthly figure would leave you to pay at end of contract an amount of no less than 1833.67.

[emanevs]

Et Contra Pacem Regis, the agreement clearly is unenforceable.

 

The acceptance fee and MIF have clearly been added to the total amount of credit, but not shown correctly.

 

In essence the total amount of credit cannot be just the 18591, because the agreement clearly states that the acceptance fee and MIF have been added to the 'loan'.

 

Unless Bebo paid the MIF and acceptance fee, it is without question a 'loan' because Welscum added two extra loan amounts.

 

In terms of Walker v Southern Pacific Personal Loans, Derek R Halbert clearly states that the breach is established. He also said that the agreement "mis-states the cost of credit by failing to include the interest on the £875. Therefore the breach is established. The question remains should the court make an enforcement order? In my view it should not. This agreement is an attempt to circumvent the provisions of S9 (4) and should not be encouraged. Appeal allowed"

 

He also said earlier "I therefore accept the arguments put forward by Mr Adrian Salter for the defendants (appellants) and find that the agreement is irredeemably unenforceable and the possession order will be quashed."

 

Any other ideas?

[emanevs]

soz!, I should have posted this:

 

"There was nothing in the 1974 Act or in the Consumer Credit (Total Charge for Credit) Regulations 1980 (SI 1980/51) and Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1535) to prevent or prohibit the inclusion in the agreement of the total amount financed or to make its inclusion a reason for rendering the agreement unenforceable."

 

What about the MIF then?

 

Consumer Credit Act S9 (1) States:

 

In this act, "credit" includes a cash loan and any other form of financial accomodation.

 

It is the amount of credit that is incorrect, hence unenforceable.

[BEBOBEBO]

Ok Ozzy thanks for that.

 

Been discussing with OH and he says and i agree that we were not given any documents to review previous to the signing.

 

This was a rewrite of a unsecured loan but we were aware it was to be secured.

 

Where do we go from here. What about the fact that the agreement has no signature from Welcome do i ask for a copy of that or not bother.

 

My OH defo says he did not ask for any insurance, certainly wouldnt have taken lifecare as had good policy with employer he was with. But he has signed the insurance box though.

 

So now what is my next step i should take.

 

and thanks again for all help.

[BEBOBEBO]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-finance/246110-recieved-my-cca-welcome.html

 

As Ozzy has also kindly posted the agreement is unenforceable what are my next steps. Sorry to have 2 threads going just wanted to make sure it got looked at as i have been welcome for years now.

 

Thanks again to all.

[ozzywizard]

Bebo, if you ask a site team member or report your own post they will migrate your two threads together to stop the confusion . lol .

[Rooster-UK]

Merged two threads.