please help in a muddle

[soti]

I have been told you guys may be my last hope , i split up with my long term long boyfriend beofre just before christmas.i have had in the past enourmous problems with unsecured debt , and he was helping me through it all claiming back my bank and credit card charges and protection insurance.

 

i had a creditor for a loan start couny court proceedings against me , my ex put in a request for the original loan agreement , copy of the default notice and notice of assignment and copy statements.

 

We got a General order of judgement or order which made the claimant to provide all of the above with in 14 days and if they did i would submit a amended defence .

 

this is when i finished with my ex finished with me , he told me he requested the case to thrown out as they did not provide a copy of the original defaul notice and the credit agreement didnot have everything it should in it (i'm sorry this phrased so unlegal i really do not no what i am talking about ).

 

4 days ago i recieved jusdgement against me , i phoned the court and they said and ammended defence was not recieved nor a N244 to have there case struck out .

 

what can i do i can do ? i have been told i have to pay nearly £4000 pounds today or they will put a charging order on my house and make me sell it , i am so desperate i do not no what to do i have a young child and the stress is killing me .

 

 

i have tried to read as many threads as i could before posting but just dont understand half of what is in them , i was with my ex for 13 years it wasn't as though i was being silly letting him handel this i trusted him and he abused that in more ways than one , i've tried googling for legal advice but all that comes up are companies that want £400 up front to get my credit agreement cancelled and i cant even afford that .

 

if any one can give me any help it would mean so much , i tried the CAB and they were no help at all .

 

 

sorry this is so long

[emandcole]

Hi Soti,

Let's see if we can get this sorted out and give you some peace. First of all much of this will be stressful to a point so take a deep breath, remember it's only money and carry on reading the various threads on here as you'll be surprised how quickly you will begin to understand the various processes involved.

 

If you get stuck or simply want to aska question go ahead, no-one here will have a go at you for it and remember there are no stupid questions. Learning is a process of trial and error and with a touch of humility and humour thrown in you'll do just fine.

 

Ok, I'm not huge on charginh orders and the like but others will be along and can contribute to help give you the bigger picture.

 

First of all we need to get you organised as I suspect you're sitting amongst a huge pile of paperwork and it all looks the same .

 

You'll need a chunky folder, some dividers and perhaps some clear A4 holders to go inside.

 

Seperate the paperwork and make sure its all in order and that you have a vague understanding of your situation with each creditor. When you're happy with that we need to know what paperwork you have:

 

 

• Default notices
  
• Termination letters
  
• Agreements
  
• Statements
  

This is not an exhaustive list but you get the point. If your old partner has the paperwork can you get it?

 

Are you still on good enough terms with him to ask questions if you need to as this may speed things up a little?

 

Basically we need to establish what has been done and when in order to advise the most appropriate route from here. I know this may be a pain but info is power in these situations.

 

At present I'm confused by the default judgment as you stated that your ex had requested the claimant to produce documentation? What method did he use, was it an application hearing? Did he pay for this to happen?

 

If he previously submitted an embarrassed defence you should have had the opportunity to then re-submit your defence based on what the claimant did or didn't provide.

 

If your ex requested a strike out for non disclosure of that documentation why has a judgment been granted against you?

 

Lots of questions I know but important to understand how this has happened if the claimant did indeed fail to produce satisfactory evidence.

 

Who is the claimant?

[soti]

Thank you so much for your quick reply just knowing someone is listening is there , i really am not on talking terms with my ex partner , i' m in the process of getting an injunction against him.

 

i will try and and be more specific from the paper work i have after i got the Claim her sent of a CPR 31.14 Request.

 

Then he filled a Allocation questionaire and with that is draft orfer for directions requesting all the information i mentioned earlier ,then from the dates the General form of jusdgement requesting all of that to be provided is next.

 

they sent all the information except the original defaul notice just a template of one , and a really poor copy of my agreement , he then said he would send of a n244 to get it struck out , the court tell me they never received it , i really dont know if he sent it , the nest thing i have is the judgement against , the company is drydens .

 

from the sticky above from what i can understand i can fill out a N244 and request the judgement be set aside on the grounds that i sent in a n244 to get Drydens claim get struck out , if that makes sense ?

 

thank you so much for you reply

[emandcole]

Very welcome soti. Ok, starting to understand what's happened here. The court claim they never received your request/response so naturally yes, the claimant would have pushed on and secured the default.

 

The default notice and agreement you have is our next step. Can you scan them and get them up here? I'd advise photocopying what you have, cover the address, name and account details and scan those so you can preserve the 'originals'.

 

If the default and agreement are poor a set aside would be appropriate based on the court not getting your request and the provided documentation provided by the claimant being unlawful (hopefully).

 

Do you have any proof of postage too. If you can get any extra info from your ex that would be good but understand its difficult.

[soti]

Hi Em i have enclosed a copy of what i was sent , i cant even read the credit agreement , as for proof of postage i do not have any .

 

i'm supposed to make payment today or they are putting in a request to secure a the debt against my house , i just dont know what the next step is ?

creditagreement.pdf

Edited January 20, 2010 by soti
forgot attachment

[emandcole]

Going over it now, what date was on the default notice as well? So far it looks partially flawed, will report back soon.

[emandcole]

Ok, when you reply can you tell me:

 

 

1. The date on the default notice e.g. the date they wrote it/posted it.
   
2. Am I right in thinking that the PDF has duplicates of the same loan or are there two loan agreements?
   
3. Did you date and sign this agreement?
   
4. Did they date and sign the agreement?
   
5. APR?
   
6. What month and year were the agreement/s signed/taken?
   
7. Is the original this hard to read or is the quality of the scanner?
   

Get those back to me and we'll go from there.

[emandcole]

Can you also tell me did this default notice tell you how much you had to pay to remedy it?

 

Also, did the arrears amount and total balance come on the default with all those 0's or did you change it for security?

 

[soti]

i do not have the original default notice never eceived one and they do not have th3e original.

 

There are two seperate loans i did date and sign the agreement they didn't

 

 

there is APr on there.

 

the agreements were taken out in march and Decmeber 1998 .

 

the original is just as hard to read.

 

and thanks again for taking the time to look over this

[emandcole]

Sweet!

 

Ok, if this default notice is a sample of the default notice they regularly send (which you can now reasonably accept as being the case) it is invalid.

 

Do you have any idea/best guess when this default was issued?

 

Can I ask, do you have any idea how much the arrears are at the moment and how much they were at the time this default was sent to you?

 

Moving on, if they've not signed any agreements they are potentially unenforceable at best and at worst incorrectly executed, especially so given the dates they were opened.

 

When was your last payment (presuming you ever started to pay once you were working and had reached the level of earnings when you need to start payment) - more out of interest than importance right now.

 

If the agreements are that hard to read they are certainly illegible, another problem for the creditor.

 

Regarding the application they are making on your house do you have any other paperwork about this?

 

I take it they are trying to secure a charging order on your home based on the 'agreements' they have provided to you?

 

Have you been given any timescales for any if this at all? Do you know they are putting the application in today?

 

Get those answers back to me again ok?!

Edited February 9, 2010 by emandcole

[soti]

Last payment was 5 years ago , as per a screen print they sent apparently it was defaulted 19/12/2005 the arrears as per a staement i have for 31/08/05 are £410.55 they also charge £15 per arrears letter.

 

They have not actually made an application for a charging order on the house , they said if i do not pay they will start action.

 

so where do i go from here? , form all the reading i have done i need to get the judgement set aside.

 

for the first time in days i do not have the sickly knot in my stomach , thanks again .

[emandcole]

Yes, start the process of getting the set aside sorted, the court that was originally dealing will be the one you need to contact. The court staff will be able to advise you on the process but won't issue any legal advice.

 

We can complete the reasons for the set aside when you have the form.

 

Good that they are just threatening at the moment, buys more time. When the CCJ was made were you instructed to pay a certain amount each month? Is this what you haven't paid leading to the trouble at the moment?

 

I'll do you a letter to send to them as what they've issued so far is pathetic.

[soti]

no i was not told to pay an amount each month, i recived the judgement last wednesday , The judgement was made on the 30th December 2009 and i had to be the full amount no latter than the 30th December 2009 .So i had to pay in full before i had even received notification of the judgement.

 

do i have to phone the court or can i down load the N244 for and deliver it by hand ?

 

Soti .

[emandcole]

Ok, learning more about what you're up against bit by bit. The creditor will go back and based on non-payment do one of a few things.

 

I've not done a set aside before so common sense will have to suffice for now, if it were me and given the urgency I would download it if that's possible and deliver it by hand to make sure the court gets it this time, get a reciept too. The court staff will be able to tell you what you need.

 

As this is a live case I feel a CPR request is in order so you can obtain everything the claimant has used as the foundation for their actions.

 

 

• Do you still have their original claim form detailing their Particulars Of Claim?
  

 

If so can you copy that out here for me?

 

I'll do you a letter to send off to the claimant which needs to go immediately, when that comes back in assuming it's the same as what you already have we'll start an argument backed up by the fact that the court didn't receive/process your ex partners original request for the strike out.

 

If your ex still has any proof of postage for this original request it would be invaluable to you, if at all possible could you find out if he has anything about this case that can help? Difficult I know but I have to ask you.

 

I'm not certain how the situation stands given the fact that the court has already made an order against you for full payment. Having said that I don't see why, given the circumstances and the fact that the creditors paperwork appears to be far from faultless that you can't do sometihng about all of this.

 

I should point out here Soti that I am not legally trained other than within the confines of architecture (contracts and the like) and merely doing what I can within the confines of my knowledge to help you out. Others may well assist who have direct experience of this process and clearly their input will be very useful.

 

I would therefore urge you to take any other steps you feel are appropriate in order to safeguard yourself and to maximise any chance you have to fight this claim.

 

With that stated let's see what we can do ok? Will await your response on the POC question above.

[soti]

The CPR Request was sent when the claim came . The POC is attached along with the genral form of judgement.

 

i am going to fill in the N244 to get it set aside that with in the 14 days of receiving what they sent me i filled i filled in a N244 to get the case struck on the grounds that the agreement they sent me failed to comply with 1 a of the judgement . and ditto the the DN for 1b just need to find the right legal phrases . so i am going to have another search on here.

 

i prreciate you are not legally trained and your help is appreciated.

poc.pdf

order.pdf

[emandcole]

Seems quite clear cut that the claimant has failed to produce documents that would satisfy 1a and 1b so given that fact I believe you have reasonable grounds for the set aside.

 

Have noticed that the claimant has also tried to claim interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act blah blah blah which I think they may not be entitled to. Might be worth adding the following at the appropriate stage denying them this interest, If I'm wrong the court will simply dismiss your denial of their right to claim it, if I'm right it's a little extra off the balance.

 

The Claimant has included a claim for interest which is pleaded in the alternative as a contractual or a claim pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984. The Claim for interest pursuant to the County Courts Act is by virtue of County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991 is denied. Paragraph 2 (3)(a) of the Order states that Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgement is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

As for the CPR are you happy to go with what you've got currently and do you have copies of letters sent to show that the claimant was asked for this information a while ago?

 

If they have failed to provide it they are frustrating the process needlessly and making it hard for you to deliver a rounded defence to their claim.

 

Do you need anything at the moment or are you happy to carry on with what we've discussed so far?

[soti]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you , my daughter has been in Hospital with glandualr fever. I am submitting my N244 to get the claim struck out but i am not 100% sure what to write in the witness statement.

 

Any advice would be really apprecited. do i just repeat what i worte in section 3 ?

 

Many thanks.

n244_e.pdf

[soti]

sorry the attachment was blank

n244e1.pdf

[emandcole]

Sorry to hear that, hope she's on the mend. Not done this form before but as you are a litigant in person the court should allow you some flexibility. However, we do need to ensure that the points you wish to raise are clear.

 

Not been over your case for a bit so apologies if I mess up here but the main points were I believe that:

 

 

• The claimant failed to file and serve (deliver copies to you and the court) the paperwork that the directions order demanded they provide? Or did the claimant provide it all?
  

If they did fail to do this I don't understand why their claim was not struck out as the directions order indicated this would happen if they failed to comply. I appreciate you said your ex had applied to have it struck out but the court should have done that for you with no further application needed from you. So, did the claimant send paperwork to the court and not to you, thus satisfying the order and allowing them to secure the judgement against you when you didn't enter a defence as directed by the court?

 

• You subsequently failed to get your fully particularised defence in as a result of the claimant not providing you with the necessary paperwork.
  

You wrote at the beginning that "4 days ago i recieved jusdgement against me , i phoned the court and they said and ammended defence was not recieved nor a N244 to have there case struck out ".

 

Has the court confirmed that the claimant did comply with the court direction? If they didn't it shouldn't be for you to make an application to get the claim struck out, the judge on review should have ordered it there and then and informed you of the claimants failure to comply.

 

• CCJ awarded and further action commenced to secure a CO on your property, thread started on CAG.
  

Is that about right? If you can refresh the info and answer the above that would be good as something doesn't quite add up.

[soti]

she's getting there didn't realise how much it knocked you out.

 

The claimant provided me with the credit agreemnt and default notice which are attached up the page neither of these are compliant.

 

so i went to have the case struck out this request was not received by the court.

 

So the claimant had my case struck out for not submitting a defence with in the 14 days , this was granted to them.

 

i think it is up to me to inform the judge that the claimant did not comply with the court action.

 

Juudgement against me has been awarded no further action has started about a CO , although they said they will go for it.

 

so i just need to fill out my witness statement but am at a loss what to exactly right as i it has been explained in section 3 .

 

thank you

[emandcole]

she's getting there didn't realise how much it knocked you out.

 

The claimant provided me with the credit agreemnt and default notice which are attached up the page neither of these are compliant.

 

Illegible agreement, no APR listed and the default is invalid. If that's all they sent you they certainly did not comply with the directions order and should have forfeited any right to continue action against you.

 

so i went to have the case struck out this request was not received by the court.

 

Do you have proof this was sent at all, this was something your ex had handled right so you have no proof?

 

So the claimant had my case struck out for not submitting a defence with in the 14 days , this was granted to them.

 

Considering the claimant failed to obey I'm amazed they got this granted. If the court failed to check the claimant had complied before the claimant secured this CCJ the court is at fault. If the court had checked the documents provided they should never have granted the CCJ as the documents are a joke.

 

The judge responsible has in my opinion a lot to answer for. You can reasonably argue that due to the fact the documents provided are non compliant you would of course have applied for their claim to be struck out. Also, why didn't the court do this as promised in the directions order? The court has been very sloppy with this.

i think it is up to me to inform the judge that the claimant did not comply with the court action.

Absolutely, submit copies of the papers they did serve as evidence. You are also entitled to a complete statement history in order to assess the accuracy of their claim, I presume you've never had that either?

 

Juudgement against me has been awarded no further action has started about a CO , although they said they will go for it.

They probably know they were lucky with this and are now trying to see it through. If solicitors are involved I would make a formal complaint before taking it to the SRA on the grounds that the paperowrk they've provided is insufficient and they know it.

 

so i just need to fill out my witness statement but am at a loss what to exactly right as i it has been explained in section 3 .

 

thank you

 

As to what to write you need to explain why you are contesting the CCJ and your grounds for asking for the set aside. In essence you'll be stating that the claimant did not comply with the original directions of the court and as such had no right to secure the CCJ the court subsequently awarded.

 

State what is wrong with the paperwork sent and also explain that other documents are still missing (If they are such as a statement history etc) and as such you have never been able to submit a fully detailed defence to the claim, a situation which is unfair.

 

Explain that the court should have examined the documents presented and given the fact that the default notice alone is invalid the court should never have granted the CCJ, irrespective of the other concerns about legibility and prescribed terms.

 

Due to the failure of the claimant to present a valid default notice amongst other issues the subsequent granting of a CCJ is an unlawful act which you respectfully request is re-examined immediately.

 

If you want to compose the response and post it here I'll have a look over it and give you my thoughts before it's sent. Make sure your spelling is bang on though, poorly presented applications will wind the judge up.

 

[emandcole]

Soti, found this on Witness Statements - not sure if you've sent already but it's pretty much what you would have written on yours: The facts of the matter etc.

 

 

Witness statements

 

3. witness statements are exactly that, witness statements, they are not skeleton arguments and should not be coinfused with them. your witness statement is your evidence, what YOU are going to say at trial. are you going to stand there and quote 11 paragraphs of wilson and first county trust while in the witness box under cross examination??? ?HELL NO of course you won't , you're gonna say , what happened when you entered into the agreemnt, you're gonna say you never signed the agreement ( if thats the truth) and you're gonna say what YOU know from your own memories and experiences. So, thats what you put in your witness statement.

 

 

For example

 

Quote:

3. The claimant has produced at exhibit XXXX 1 a copy of a credit agreement, i do not recognise this as my agreement as the document i was presented in 1998 was a single piece opf paper which i receved in my local branch. it was printed before me and was handed to me by the clerk.

 

4. There were no terms and conditions presented to me at that time.

 

5. the card arrived attached to a single piece of paper , this was a a4 piece of paper and had ............

PLEASE REMEMBER> you do not lie, if you cant remember then you say you cant remember, do not lie as it will discredit you if the other side catch you out and any chance of success you had just went down the toilet.