County Court Claim received MBNA\Restons

[paulwlton]

I would have thought the skelton argument was part of the witness statement,its written documentation that should have been handed over prior to the court date othewise why bother handing it over at all.

This is all sounding like a right old carve up,i'd definitely be looking to appeal here,nothing more to lose and eveything to gain.

 

Lb145,what exactly were the 4 points they based their argument on ?

 

Witness statement and skelly or two disparate documents

[gh2008]

......... i'd definitely be looking to appeal here,nothing more to lose and eveything to gain.

 

not strictly true - again there is a serious costs risk with an appeal -

 

I would have thought £5k-£10k would not be out of the 'ball park'

[LB145]

Spoke with solicitors today - they have suggested that I make an offer of payments through the courts - interest free via the HMRC website as if I had gone to them before the SJ hearing they would have done it on a "no win no fee" but cannot do that now - Very expensive lesson!!! and as GH says above would be extremely expensive.

[LB145]

With regard to the solicitor handing over the skeleton notes, we were in a large crowded waiting area and a man called "is Mrs. ??? here", obviously I looked up and he came over, he handed me the papers they were not in a envelope or holder and said you already have a copy they were emailed yesterday and posted to yet, perhaps you left before the post arrived - i did state that I didn't want them before the hearing and he said it was for me to read so that I knew what was happening, when I walked into the room I immediately told the DJ that these documents had just been handed to me and that I had not received them via emai or post. The DJ did not have his copy either and the solicitor stated that they were sent over the day previous. The DJ said "at least you have turned up" to me - why did he think that I wouldn't???? so really I was on a loser before I started.

 

I have decided begrudginlgly as it is not in my nature to "lay down" to throw in the towel as I my business is very time consuming and I cannot afford to neglect it - I was not successful on the day and I balls'd up because I wasn't up to the sneaky side of things, because I am an upfront person and thought the regulations were on my side and I do not think my OH can stand the pressure with dealing with crap every day and very sadly a mum at our school last her battle with cancer last week leaving behind a young son of 7 and it has things into perspective for me!

 

Thank you everyone for your valuable input and I am not giving up the fight on my other threads but I will be that bit wiser.

 

Big thanks to all and sorry that I let the CAG down on this occassion.

[Dotty50]

You have let no one down LB!

 

It seems quite a lottery with the judges around, I have said before, it seems so unfair that you can't request a specialist judge, as you would expect a specialist doctor for treatment!

 

Glad to hear it has not put you off your other threads though!

[gh2008]

I understand what you are saying BUT IMHO I wouldn't make the decision until you have explored all options.

 

PM a few people on here and make sure they think you are doing 'the right thing'

 

I do think you have a *very* good case for appeal *especially* as it was an SJ hearing rather than a trial.

 

Then you'd be back at square 1 again and you may get no-win no-fee representation for the claim.

[Fluffystuff]

I understand what you are saying BUT IMHO I wouldn't make the decision until you have explored all options.

 

PM a few people on here and make sure they think you are doing 'the right thing'

 

I do think you have a *very* good case for appeal *especially* as it was an SJ hearing rather than a trial.

 

Then you'd be back at square 1 again and you may get no-win no-fee representation for the claim.

 

LB,

 

As you know, I could quite easily have become another victim of the DJ lottery and know all too well that feeling of being backed into a corner.

I understand completely your reasons for just wanting to put this one to bed, as you say, some things in life are more important and this is 'only' an arguement about money.

However, ask yourself why you entered this arguement in the first place. I am sure it wasn't a decision taken lightly and the important thing is to remember that you do have a case. You have clearly not been treated fairly and the hearing was not conducted within the guidelines for a SJ hearing. Your reasoning was not fanciful but based on fact and to that end, you had proved that your case should proceed.

 

Obviously, we are not privvy to your personal circumstances but take the advice given above and give careful consideration to the last sentence.

 

As I suggested earlier, take a look at Humbleman's thread before you make your final decision and talk to the people who are helping him.

 

Sincere best wishes. x

[blueotter]

Your court experience is essential reading for anybody looking to go.

From my undertsanding the claimant should issue their witness documentation 7 days prior to a sj hearing ,is that right ?

And if it is then contacing the court officials to find out where it is cant do any harm can it.

 

I'd be contacting my MP in this situation as it looks to me that LB145 has been ambushed and almost turning up as a fait accompli.

[blueotter]

Witness statement and skelly or two disparate documents

 

Hi ,can you expand on what you mean here please ? i don't understand

[pumpytums]

Hi LB,

you let no one down you did the right thing, don't blame yourself you did everything you could and you should be proud.

 

In my opinion and others the opposition and the judge behaved despicably. They gave you documents before you entered and a witness statement a day before trial. The list goes on.

 

Sounds to be like the judge thought CCA check DN check SJ check.

 

These nowin solicitors sound great but I have heard them dropping people a week before trial how great would that have been.

 

I will say it again you did great you did everything you could and you let no one down.

 

Pumpytums

[bustthematrix]

Spoke with solicitors today - they have suggested that I make an offer of payments through the courts - interest free via the HMRC website as if I had gone to them before the SJ hearing they would have done it on a "no win no fee" but cannot do that now - Very expensive lesson!!! and as GH says above would be extremely expensive.

Sad to hear this LB.

 

I for one find it easier to accept a loss, if it's on merit. If I lose fairly, I can accept it. If I get railroaded, that's a different matter. This certainly looks like one of those. The Judge does not appear to know what they were doing and there is no accountability whatsoever. They have not only treated you as being on par with the professionals, they have misapplied the law, IMHO.

 

I of course don't know the full circumstances behind your rationale but I wish you all the best in the days ahead.

 

One further useful thing that could come out of this, should you not appeal as you have said, is if you can share the details of the no-win, no-fee solicitors you mentioned before. I think it's high time CAG setup a library of such services (not necesarily to endorse them) but to give people a short cut to researchin solicitors/barristers should people feel they need the help.

[Dotty50]

Funnily enough, I was wondering about LB today and was going to post later.

 

By coincidence I too have posted a similar remark about further assistance when going to court and whether the aid could be given via CAG.

 

We may all be in the same boat at some point and will need all the help we can get, in view of recent judges opinions.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use-108.html#post3071771

Edited August 4, 2010 by Dotty50
added link

[bustthematrix]

There are too many 'problems' with the case for it not to be appealable. Another thing in LB's favour is that it was a summary judgement hearing not a full trial. Coupled with the lapses in procedure by the Claimant and the Judge's point of law errors, there's more than a good chance. At the worst, LB should get the transcript and try to dig out the Judge's full reasoning behind his decision. This will cost a few hundred pounds which she probably can't easily afford, but offset against the prospect of paying £10k over several years it'd be worth it.

 

The problem with these larger amounts is that they are not SC. However this looks very winnable for a good pro bono barrister as it's ultimately all based on hearsay evidence! Annoyingly, sols tend to fall into two categories when it comes to accepting work

1) Those who like easy to win cases and

2) Those who like easy to earn cases, win or lose.

[bustthematrix]

There are too many 'problems' with the case for it not to be appealable.

One other thing, if the judge really did make that comment "at least you turned up" and it is on the transcript, that would not go down well for the DJ when reviewed in the light of day by an independent, unbiased Circuit Judge or higher!

 

Clearly shows he had made up his mind that you were trying it on, had got all your info from a silly internet site, you were not to be taken seriously and an appeal would certainly be out of your depth.

 

My question to LB at this point is what do you have to lose by appealing vs what you have to gain? You seem to have other sizeable unsecured debt which this one is supposed to compete with. Are you asset rich? Do you have a lot of equity you wish to protect in your home or other property for example? Please seriously consider what you do have to lose vs gain; I'd say with good advice, you have strong chances on appeal with this as it appears you have been railroaded.

 

If you lose the appeal, which you can always discontinue (to save costs) if the Claimant demonstrably strengthens their arguments, costs will be added and the debt would rise. It's highly unlikely they can add any more depth to their arguments!!! However you will be in a better position as far as gaining more knowledge and experience is concerned and the court's reasoning behind the failure of your own arguments will be better highlighted to you, and through you, others.

 

Oh that we had specialist representation for occasions such as this!

[wycombe]

Unfortunately for us LIP's it is the ever increasing spiral of costs as one travels down the 'justice' line that is the big deterrent. For people like myself on jobseekers allowance just finding a spare £10 is a major feat in itself so several hundred pounds for an appeal is out of the question. So if I lose my upcoming SJ hearing - however biased the DJ is - I will have no choice but to throw in the towel. Justice is most definitely, IMHO, the prerogative of the rich who can afford it.

 

Then one has to take into account the time and effort involved in boning up on the law to a level where one can compete with 'experts' who have had years of training and the backing of all the resources available to a legal firm - most out of the remit of us mere mortals. (Though luckily these days we have the Internet as a major plus). If you are working and juggling family commitments the amount of time available is severely limited.

 

Then there are the mental pressures involved - the fear of losing ones home over an unsecured debt which the lender has royally screwed you for already with an exorbitant interest rate. Then you have the hearings where one is in very unfamiliar surroundings and you have to put your case forward in a situation where you are very likely to be ill at ease and extremely nervous.

 

When one looks at it all it is amazing that us LIP's do actually win a few. What is very saddening and offputting is the number who have what looks like good solid cases who lose due a lottery in the system that means if you get a jaundiced old fart of a judge you will lose come what may as he has already judged you before you even enter the courtroom!

 

Without sites like CAG and the support given by them the Banks and DCA's success rate would probably be close to 100%. Personally I would love to know what percentage of defended County Court summonses the defendant actually wins.

 

Despite the morbid tone above I do remain hopeful (surprisingly) - but I do understand why LB has had to throw in the towel.

[LB145]

Hi All - wow my thread had been growing in my absence (lol) - well I haven't thrown myself of a cliff, or slit my wrists but went away for ten days as I was looking a complete wreck and needed to recharge my batteries. I will respond to postings over the weekend - apologies if anyone has been waiting for specific info from me - I did not want to advertise that my home would be empty as some of these companies may have grabbed the opportunity to pay a visit!

 

Wycombe - Whilst away you were in my thoughts and I hope everything works in your favour - you are such a gent! - well spoken above - thank you - you understand my situation exactly!

 

Bustthematrix - thank you for your comments - I find it really maddening that I am throwing in the towel and if you have read my threads you will know this really goes against my way - I am a fighter through and through but my family cannot take the strain - mentally and financially - yes I have large equity in property but despite this am unable to release any of it due to my "bad credit score" and YES those were the words of the DJ that heard my case!!! A few friends have commented that perhaps I was dressed too smart, my fabulously organised filing system looked too efficient, I appeared too confident (I have been brought up to dress for the occassion) and my appearance may have made me look like I am well off and intelligent - and that I should have dressed down for the occasion and appeared to not know how to conduct my self. I have asked myself over and over again what could I have done differently and the anser is personally nothing other than have professional training - and the hindsight to have had a solicitor - my extended family keep reminding me of this fact!!

[LB145]

UPDATE

 

I was given 14 days to make payment of just under £10k, we condsiderered making payments for the next hundred years but as we are both self employed prefereed to make the payment in full and get the CCJ removed off record - apparently this is possible if payment is made in full within 30 days of Judgement. Family are obtaining funds for us (naturally we will be making the payments but cannot get funds in our name) but this takes up to four weeks to complete - I was waiting for a letter from Restons confirming how much was to be paid and how payment would be accepted and they never contacted me - so I telephoned them on the 12th day to notify them that I am making paymentin full but it would take another two weeks to get the funds in place, this was also confirmed to them by fax and letter - Mr Dolan was rather surprised that this was going to be paid in full and told me that they do not send any further correspondence of advice and that they will still continue with a Charging Order on my home although no further charges will be incurred. We needed a break so we went away for ten days, the mortgage company and solicitors were aware that all parties would be away and unobtainable via email - this was also confirmed to them in the application and telephone and email - so they decide to "complete" on the day of our return (are all solicitors - this silly - or is it just the ones that I have had contact with?) Obviously completion did not happen as paperwork needed tobe signed - on telephoning them they told me that further costs would be incurred due to non completion! Yes I am sure you will know the reply to that!! So Funds are on standyby and will reach us shortly. In the meantime RESTONS have issued a Charging Order on my home - letter from Land REeistry office today issued on 13th!!!!

 

Is this easy to be removed or am I going to have major implications? - perhaps I should have stayed on holiday

 

By the way have the smilieys been ditched in the new layout!!!

[Fluffystuff]

Hello LB,

 

Good to hear from you. I do hope that you managed to enjoy your much needed break and am especially pleased that your family are so understanding and there to support you - that, as they say, is priceless.

 

Take care.

 

F x

[LB145]

Hello LB,

 

Good to hear from you. I do hope that you managed to enjoy your much needed break and am especially pleased that your family are so understanding and there to support you - that, as they say, is priceless.

 

Take care.

 

F x

 

Hi Fluffy - will catch up your thread soon! - yes thoroughly needed - would recommend all inclusive - no emails (data whilst roaming off), someone else to pick up the towels from the bathroom floor, someone else to make the beds, replenish the fridge, pinicky family members have a choice of menu! and can eat whatever and whenever they like - teenage failities that they actually enjoy and want to socialise - 41 degrees - plenty of cocktails - total relaxation and a massage as a "thank you" for returning! - HEAVEN!!! - rather strangly it was like going up our local High Street or gym - so many people I know or have done business with were there! Teens actually made friends with teens from neighbouring towns!

[Fluffystuff]

Sssshhhhh - don't tell anyone, but I know exactly what you mean - our little secret!!

[wycombe]

Good to see you back LB - fully re-charged and running on all cylinders!

 

I do hope all goes well with your settlement and you get this load off your back. I'm sure it would be fantastic to get back to some form of normality after all the pressures and hassles.

[LB145]

Good to see you back LB - fully re-charged and running on all cylinders!

 

I do hope all goes well with your settlement and you get this load off your back. I'm sure it would be fantastic to get back to some form of normality after all the pressures and hassles.

Thanks Wycombe - everything crossed for you!

 

Started day off by phoning Land REgistry informed them that I had notified Reston's that the debt would be settled as was waiting on funds but they would take a couple of weeks. They informed me that Restons have to have the charge removed once payment is made. After a few phonecalls funds were received into account and settlement was made to Restons's - I did inform "the man" that should I ever be in court again for whatever reason there will be a solicitor representing me!! - Lets hope they make a note of that! I also requested that the Charging Order be removed immediately - was told this will take about 4 days once payment has cleared - with regard to the CCJ against me I read that if paid within 30 days of judgement the record is removed - I may be over by a day or two so I am hoping this will be possible - I have to contact the courts with regard to that - does anyone know the process?

 

I thought that I would feel some kind of relief that this one is almost finished but in my heart I will never accept the outcome as being fair! On with the other battles!

[DizzieDiva2010]

UPDATE

 

I was given 14 days to make payment of just under £10k, we condsiderered making payments for the next hundred years but as we are both self employed prefereed to make the payment in full and get the CCJ removed off record - apparently this is possible if payment is made in full within 30 days of Judgement. Family are obtaining funds for us (naturally we will be making the payments but cannot get funds in our name) but this takes up to four weeks to complete - I was waiting for a letter from Restons confirming how much was to be paid and how payment would be accepted and they never contacted me - so I telephoned them on the 12th day to notify them that I am making paymentin full but it would take another two weeks to get the funds in place, this was also confirmed to them by fax and letter - Mr Dolan was rather surprised that this was going to be paid in full and told me that they do not send any further correspondence of advice and that they will still continue with a Charging Order on my home although no further charges will be incurred. We needed a break so we went away for ten days, the mortgage company and solicitors were aware that all parties would be away and unobtainable via email - this was also confirmed to them in the application and telephone and email - so they decide to "complete" on the day of our return (are all solicitors - this silly - or is it just the ones that I have had contact with?) Obviously completion did not happen as paperwork needed tobe signed - on telephoning them they told me that further costs would be incurred due to non completion! Yes I am sure you will know the reply to that!! So Funds are on standyby and will reach us shortly. In the meantime RESTONS have issued a Charging Order on my home - letter from Land REeistry office today issued on 13th!!!!

 

Is this easy to be removed or am I going to have major implications? - perhaps I should have stayed on holiday

 

By the way have the smilieys been ditched in the new layout!!!

 

I have been following your thread and im sorry to hear you never got the result you wanted, i am in the same position only i owe £2600!

 

I have my hearing the first week of September and im dreading it, i dont feel well i have depression worse through all the stress of this case. I too am very concerned about MBNA getting SJ and then a charging order on my house. Were you not able to pay off the debt in installments?

Are you not able to appeal or contest the charging order?

Edited August 30, 2010 by DizzieDiva2010

[blueotter]

Do you have a link to your own thread ? If you are dreading it the best advice i can give is to employ a solicitor,provided of course that you have a leg to stand on

[Redfish]

LB I would just like to say, I also failed with MBNA, but I used a solicitor! It looks like MBNA are getting more aggressive and judges seem to be lining up on their side. I haven't got the details of how the judgement was reached, but now that I read your thread I realise that the same may have happened in my trial, even with a specialist solicitor representing me. I only hope we can pay off in small amounts as the amount we owe would cripple us.