RBOS Loan mystery!!

[patrickq1]

one more thing the change in the itrest rate without your agreement is naughty and when you DSAR make sure you have the contract see if it has anything in it about loan changes in intrest and if it is a fixed rate...you can see what pesh has said its a trigger for you to agree to the new intrest rate change so BEWARE as it is you have grounds to suspend payment until they come clean..

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

sorry just read your last post...1st you need to begin with a LBA (LETTER BEFORE ACTION) this way you are giving them a final chance you come clean return the overpayments of face a judge who for all accounts would intigate payments due to you but dont LBA unless you mean to go ahead with it...if i was in your position i would nt think twice i would start the action within 10 days of the warning letter make sure it is sent to RBS HEAD OFFICE ,do not allow them time to obviscate take the action also claim the same intrest they were asking plus damages if they have mucked up your credit file you need to check with experian first but be armed and ready by tuesday this week and go for it

good luck

patrickq1

[foxyflugel]

OH received a reply to the SAR request today and it says that in April 08 they couldn't locate the loan agreement - but never let us know!! I have been a bit slack - admitedly - but where does this leave us. Patrick - if we took them to court the only thing we are relying on is the words on the statement that I have quoted previously. How can I prove what the original loan was - as there are no contra entries on his bank statements!! However, I have done a calculation that says he has overpaid around £960 - would I claim interest on this at 8%???? Please help as I don't really know what to do next. Also would I adapt the lba????

[patrickq1]

in your DSAR did you specifically ask for details and records of this "Router Account" i am thinkin you have had a reply from triton and not rbs ? if RBS are telling you they have no HISTORY then we got a different ball game oh yes absolutely claim the 8% intrest and all costs,ie postage calls etc , with regards to any actions you may wish to take yes letter before action and adapt to suit,i would be inclined to use the threat that you are considering asking trading standards to intervene in this because you suspect a that a person or persons have commited fraud and you have been advised to go to trading standards to open up an investigation then present the bill for what you beleive you are owed and also if it comes to it i suspect that your contract never existed for more years than you can remember ,am i right in thinking that the bulk of the payments went to RBS and the remaining couple of years went to triton ,think i will have to re read this thread then start on it tommorrrow ,

you have the BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER FROM RBS AND PRESUMABLEY TELFORD if so then i will post a letter on here tommorow that you send to BOTH RBS AND TELFORD gotta get to the bottom of this because all the companies mentioned must keep records for 7 years otherwise a charge of maneylaundering shall be brought to their doorstep this is a criminal offence and not one of them want this on their doorstep

[foxyflugel]

Thanks for your reply Patrick. Yes I can confirm that I added into the SAR request that any details or confirmation of any router accounts held were submitted in the SAR. The details received are notes off the account. RBS defaulted OH in Oct 2005 and this is when the loan went to collections dept. The SAR they have sent has a list of codes at the front and on his profile it has got him down as being married - and we are not and also it says that it is a flat rate loan (on list of accounts) - also is says Ledger Debt - Nil - Repaid!!

Reading through the notes these are the entries:-

 

on 16.1.08 it says that a query form completed to get loan agreement form.

 

17.1.08 Manual diary entry statements ordered 23.5.05-17.1.08 - send to cust. What are MANUAL diary entry statements???????

 

1.2.08 Manual diary entry statements received - sent to cust.

 

blah blah

 

5.3.08 letter in from cust blah blah - he advises he has requested a copy of loan agreement however he has only received one loan statement. blah blah - Customer advised copy loan agreement ordered and we will contact him again in due course.

 

12.4.08 ***unable to locate Loan Agreement Form. - We were never advised - suprise suprise!!

 

30.7.08 unsecured deal made £200 pm blah blah

 

23.9.08 Text msg sent reminding of payment

 

9.8.9 broken payment arrears letter sent.

 

17.8.9 complaint letter rec'd re arrears letter - a/s wasn't in arrears - they claimed it should have been a review letter!! and systems had a blip.

 

10.9.9. resolution letter sent - making above excuse

 

28.9.09 complaint resolved 10.9.09. payment plan now to be set up £200 pm x 6 28th from 28/10/08 - do you read this as I do - £200 times 6 months?? As this doesn't equal the balance of around £3,900 that was outstanding in Jan!!

 

blah blah

 

6.1.10 Balance query. Cust called through with loan discrepancy. Offered an early settlement fig of £300. Cust requested statements from past 5 years and will consider settlement after looking through those.

 

7.1.10 statements ordered.

 

9.1.10 broken payment arrears letter sent.

 

25.1.10 loan statements sent to customer - these only go up to May 2009!!

 

9.2.10 Letter in 19.1.10. requests copy of credit sgreement under s77 of cca 1974. Referred to payment processing who confirmed loan is repaid. £1 fee returned, letter out to cust advised as a/c repaid, there is no longer any requirement for bank to comply with this request.

 

18.2.10 Dsar info requested from Retail Regulatory Risk Dept. \Exp 6.3.10

 

*****************************************************

 

This doc is Diary Event History - and it has 2 different reference numbers on the top underneath OH name - there are entries on the notes from July 2005 - not one single entry for 2006 - one single entry for 26.7.07 - and then it starts again on 16.1.08 - that is never right in a month of Sundays!!

Also Patrick - when I called and spoke to the idiot at Triton last month and asked him to explain why the bank were writing off £3.5k for a £300 settlement figure - he said that no payments had been received to the account since 1st week in Dec 2009 - again - he didn't know why!"! THat means that the £50 per week that we sent (proof of it leaving our account) - about £300 funnily enough - must have been 'intercepted' somewhere. It is my belief that they knew I was onto them and they have made out that the £300 in payments has been paid in f&f. Surely if it went to court I could use the letters from Triton - arrears letters etc stating the outstanding balance according to them. My only concern is that we don't have the agreement either. The only document I have is the back page of 1 loan statement in 2008 which states - see my earlier post for exact wording - that the main loan (inc interest) is for £11,300. How do I prove any of these dodgy goings on?? I am even more convinced now that the loan was for a lot less as why would they write off that amount of money?? Do they have to comply with the CCA request now the a/c is closed?? Would we have had it in writing for an offer of f&f settlement - as they said that they couldn't do this when I asked? My head is spinning with this - your help is very much appreciated

Edited February 24, 2010 by foxyflugel

[kiptower]

err have they confirmed settlement of £300 ?

 

quote > 6.1.10 Balance query. Cust called through with loan discrepancy. Offered an early settlement fig of £300

[foxyflugel]

No Kiptower - they haven't. Just returned the CCA request with £1 PO saying that the account has been repaid and settled in full!!

[patrickq1]

WHAT WAS THE LOAN BALANCE AT OCT 2005..AND HAD YOU AGREED AND PAID 50.00 PER MONTH EVER SINCE ?

16.1.08 YOU ASKED FOR A COPY OF LOAN AGREEMENT FROM RBS ? ON THIS SPECIFIC DATE AND IT TOOK ALMOST THREE MONTHS FOR THE TO AKNOWLEDGE WITHIN THERE DEPARTMENT THE REQUEST ?

5.3.08 letter in from cust blah blah - he advises he has requested a copy of loan agreement however he has only received one loan statement. blah blah - Customer advised copy loan agreement ordered and we will contact him again in due course. SO NO COPY OF AGREEMENT HAS EVER BEEN SENT

12.4.08 ***unable to locate Loan Agreement Form

SO NO AGREEMENT EXISTED AT THIS DATE ? AT THE DATE 12.4.08 CAN YOU TELL ME HOW MUCH YOU HAD PAID UPTO THIS DATE

 

30.7.08 unsecured deal made £200

SO THEY CONTACTED YOU 3 MONTHS LATER WITH A DEAL FOR 200 PM.

I AM PRESUMING YOU WERE CONTINUING WITH THE NORMAL PAYMENTS OR HAS THIS PERIOD BEEN MISSED

23.9.08 Text msg sent reminding of payment

 

9.8.9 broken payment arrears letter sent.

 

17.8.9 complaint letter rec'd re arrears letter

YOU MADE YOUR COMPLAINT BECAUSE YOU HAD NOT MISSED ANY PAYMENTS BUT THEY COULD NOT ACCOUNT FOR THESE PAYMENTS THEN THEY SENT YOU AN APOLIGY SO YOU HAVE BEEN PAYING 200 PM FOR

SO YOU WOULD HAVE PAID IN THE 13MONTHS PERIOD 2600.00

THEN A FURTHER 6 MONTHS AT 200.00 = 1200 MAKING A TOTAL OF

3800.00

 

As this doesn't equal the balance of around £3,900 that was outstanding in Jan!! WHICH JANUARY 1.1.10 ? HAD YOU CONTINUED WITH YOUR PAYMENTS

he said that no payments had been received to the account since 1st week in Dec 2009

BUT YOU MAINTAIN THE PAYMENTS CONTINUED AT THE RATE OF 50.00 PER WEEK UNTIL ?IF FROM THE ABOVE DATE THIS MAKES A FURTHER 2600.00 FOR A FULL 52 WEEKS ...?

[patrickq1]

what follows now is you need to Subject to access the rbs with this adapt to suit ,they still have not fully complied with your cca but send this along with 10.00 pounds cca is 1.00 SAR 10.00

[your address]

 

 

 

[their address]

 

 

[DATE]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

 

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you.

The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not limited merely to 6 years of historical information.

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties or charges which are invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations against me, then I shall be reclaiming them together with any interest charges which you have levied on them.

As it is your wrongdoing and mishandling of my account which has created the necessity for this Subject Access Request, I shall also be reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[signature]

 

 

[name]

[patrickq1]

already posted

[foxyflugel]

WHAT WAS THE LOAN BALANCE AT OCT 2005..AND HAD YOU AGREED AND PAID 50.00 PER MONTH EVER SINCE ?the loan balance (according to the stat sent) was still the full amount £15763.20 (inc int) as payments had bounced since opening in May 2005. He agreed to pay £65 pw.

 

16.1.08 YOU ASKED FOR A COPY OF LOAN AGREEMENT FROM RBS ? ON THIS SPECIFIC DATE AND IT TOOK ALMOST THREE MONTHS FOR THE TO AKNOWLEDGE WITHIN THERE DEPARTMENT THE REQUEST ?No sorry if I have mis posted Patrick - it was ordered on 5.3.08

5.3.08 letter in from cust blah blah - he advises he has requested a copy of loan agreement however he has only received one loan statement. blah blah - Customer advised copy loan agreement ordered and we will contact him again in due course. SO NO COPY OF AGREEMENT HAS EVER BEEN SENT - no

12.4.08 ***unable to locate Loan Agreement Form

SO NO AGREEMENT EXISTED AT THIS DATE ? AT THE DATE 12.4.08 CAN YOU TELL ME HOW MUCH YOU HAD PAID UPTO THIS DATE

£7159.47 transferred from current a/c (that they had failed to transfer over to loan a/c!!)+ £260 (one months payments) + 5 weeks @ £50 = £7669.47

30.7.08 unsecured deal made £200

SO THEY CONTACTED YOU 3 MONTHS LATER WITH A DEAL FOR 200 PM. Yes - He paid £65 pw from Oct 2005 up until the lump sum was transferred and the payments were reduced to £50 pw - so £200 on a 4 week month and £250 on a 5 week months = 13 months per year instead of 12!!

I AM PRESUMING YOU WERE CONTINUING WITH THE NORMAL PAYMENTS OR HAS THIS PERIOD BEEN MISSED - no continued with normal payments

23.9.08 Text msg sent reminding of payment

 

 

9.8.9 broken payment arrears letter sent.

 

17.8.9 complaint letter rec'd re arrears letter

YOU MADE YOUR COMPLAINT BECAUSE YOU HAD NOT MISSED ANY PAYMENTS BUT THEY COULD NOT ACCOUNT FOR THESE PAYMENTS THEN THEY SENT YOU AN APOLIGY SO YOU HAVE BEEN PAYING 200 PM FOR - £50pw since 11 march 2007 - ist week in Jan 2010.

SO YOU WOULD HAVE PAID IN THE 13MONTHS PERIOD 2600.00

THEN A FURTHER 6 MONTHS AT 200.00 = 1200 MAKING A TOTAL OF

3800.00 -probably more dued to 5 week months = £250 pm

 

As this doesn't equal the balance of around £3,900 that was outstanding in Jan!! WHICH JANUARY 1.1.10 ? HAD YOU CONTINUED WITH YOUR PAYMENTS yes and Yes January 2010!!!

he said that no payments had been received to the account since 1st week in Dec 2009

BUT YOU MAINTAIN THE PAYMENTS CONTINUED AT THE RATE OF 50.00 PER WEEK UNTIL 1st week in Jan - tried to stop the Friday 8th? payment and because it's a standing order bank couldn't do it!!?IF FROM THE ABOVE DATE THIS MAKES A FURTHER 2600.00 FOR A FULL 52 WEEKS ...?yes - but probably around £2,800 as there are 4 5week months in a year[/quote]

 

 

I only have the statements they sent for the loan account and they are only up to 19 May 2009.

[foxyflugel]

Patrick I sent a full SAR request on his loan account (with £10 fee) on 20th Jan (2nd class) however, (I have just noticed!!) it does say on the covering letter The Data enclosed is only data held within this department. However, you should sbhortly receive, under separate cover, information held by other departments within the bank.

 

They also defaulted him in Oct 2005 when the first payments were missed - this is when it was passed to Collections.

 

On the first page of the statement they have sent it says - DD principal pay £131.27 DD interest pay £131.45 - these do vary slightly - but that makes the interest £8,040 (approx £134 x £60) - not £4463 as they said - added to £11,300 loan. Have they doubled the interest (APR)without telling him???? - it was, I believe 7.9% - which they confirmed on the telephone. I still have the arrears letters stating the amount outstanding - so how can they say it is closed and repaid???????

 

PS - Can you do me a really massive favour and look at my agreements in MBNA, Abbey, Mint and Natwest and give me your valued opinion on enforceability as I am having probs getting my head around the key details that should be on them - Many thanks for all your help.

[patrickq1]

you didnt happen to have PPI on this loan did you

[patrickq1]

yes post your agreements on here ive asked for help on this thread so i think dd and others will be on here soon but when you do post your details makes sure nothing can identify you ok

[patrickq1]

Patrick I sent a full Subject access request request on his loan account (with £10 fee) on 20th Jan (2nd class) however, (I have just noticed!!) it does say on the covering letter The Data enclosed is only data held within this department. However, you should sbhortly receive, under separate cover, information held by other departments within the bank.

so they have yet to send the full statements also the agreement,i geuss it was triton who say they have no agreement...

[patrickq1]

was the ppi inclusive and did you as part of the terms and conditions feel you had no choice to take out the ppi...

had you tried making any claim due to illness

ok so now we need to ask how much was the ppi and what commisions did they pay out if any to anyone

[diddydicky]

to be honest i cant make head nor tail of this thread- cant really advise as i don't seem able to work out what the issues are

 

from what i can ascertain is that the original creditor is telling you that there is no outstanding debt and has returned your one pound fee- so i assume the debt has been sold- in which case did you receive a NOA?

 

what you do need to do is stop talking to people on the phone as you will be getting yourself deeper and deeper in the doo doo

 

everything in writing

 

if you would like to precis exactly where you are at and what you want it might be a little clearer

[foxyflugel]

you didnt happen to have PPI on this loan did you

 

 

No - not to his knowledge

[foxyflugel]

was the ppi inclusive and did you as part of the terms and conditions feel you had no choice to take out the ppi...

had you tried making any claim due to illness

ok so now we need to ask how much was the ppi and what commisions did they pay out if any to anyone

 

To his knowledge he never opted for PPI and definitely didn't want it. Never tried to make any claims as he never knew he had it (if he did!) if you see what I mean lol

[foxyflugel]

to be honest i cant make head nor tail of this thread- cant really advise as i don't seem able to work out what the issues are

 

from what i can ascertain is that the original creditor is telling you that there is no outstanding debt and has returned your one pound fee- so i assume the debt has been sold- in which case did you receive a NOA?

 

what you do need to do is stop talking to people on the phone as you will be getting yourself deeper and deeper in the doo doo

 

everything in writing

 

if you would like to precis exactly where you are at and what you want it might be a little clearer

 

 

I only spoke to them on the phone until I realised what morons I was dealing with!! and they were no decent, honest company. Basically, as of beginning of January 2010 the balance outstanding was £3953 approx - they offered a settlement figure of £300. I only started digging as the figures on various letters don't add up.

 

I CCA requested them and they sent me my PO back and said the account was repaid in full so they did not have to comply with my request. The SAR notes state that they could not find the agreement in April 2008 when it was requested - and of course they never advised us. I also believe he has paid approx £900/1000 over the correct amount of the loan. It also states - ledger balance - NIL - repaid.

 

The problem is we don't have the agreement either - he believes he never received one - the only thing that we have is the back page of a loan statement (about the only one he ever received) that states the main loan is £11,300 - then says that this includes the interest. What is an NOA?? He hasn't received anything at all.

[foxyflugel]

yes post your agreements on here ive asked for help on this thread so i think dd and others will be on here soon but when you do post your details makes sure nothing can identify you ok

 

Posted in relevant bank section - thanks again

[diddydicky]

I only spoke to them on the phone until I realised what morons I was dealing with!! and they were no decent, honest company. Basically, as of beginning of January 2010 the balance outstanding was £3953 approx - they offered a settlement figure of £300. I only started digging as the figures on various letters don't add up.

 

I CCA requested them and they sent me my PO back and said the account was repaid in full so they did not have to comply with my request. The SAR notes state that they could not find the agreement in April 2008 when it was requested - and of course they never advised us. I also believe he has paid approx £900/1000 over the correct amount of the loan. It also states - ledger balance - NIL - repaid.

 

The problem is we don't have the agreement either - he believes he never received one - the only thing that we have is the back page of a loan statement (about the only one he ever received) that states the main loan is £11,300 - then says that this includes the interest. What is an NOA?? He hasn't received anything at all.

 

if the OC has comfirmed in writing that there is no outstanding debt then that is the end of that- keep the letter safe

 

if someone else is now chasing you for the same debt then it would appear to have been sold by the OC to someone else, is that the case?

[foxyflugel]

If he owed them money then this would be great DD - but as it stands I believe that they owe him money that he has overpaid. Do they have to provide the agreement now the a/c is repaid (as they have stated)??And what about the other £3.5k stated in the arrears letters and over the telephone?? It doesn't make sense that they should magic this away.

[diddydicky]

once an agreement is ended there is no obligation for the creditor to comply with the consumer credit act since there is no longer an agreement to regulate, this includes s78 requests

 

also don't forget that the 6 year SB rule works both ways

 

i suspect it will also be true that where a creditor has made a "gift" of monies to the debtor in circumstances where he has made mistakes- that a court may well rule that to be the case in the alternative- although i suspect some weight will be given to the fact that unlike the creditor- the debtor is usually not as financially astute

 

apologies for mis reading the thread

[patrickq1]

yes they have yet to send data concerning the subject to access request and promised to send later,from what ive read it looks like the overpayment could be as much as 3000.00 plus,extra intrest has further been added beyond the contract agreement ,but with the back page of the origional contract stating it was a fixed finance load ,so without agreement this etra intrest has been added possibly because their was an initial default but this was cleared up due a office error on their part,

i think what is needed in this is the agreement but we know this is highly unlikely that it will ever surface if this is the case ,what should she do ,

i have a feeling this has been penalised way about the origional credit agreement by almost 5000.00 .so all that can be done on this thread is await the SAR to arrive..but in the meantime you need to write to triton the HARRASSMENT LETTER ,this ensures no more phone calls,you must not speak with them on the phone under any circumstances..

then when and if the contract arrives it can be looked at in detail,and see what the next mve is best,i suspect it will have to be a LBA letter before action and you have asked what is a NOA it means notice of assignment..you will need to see this,you should first have been served with a default notice secondly the debts sold so you should receive a notice of assignment from the origional company,so you need sight of this but i suspect this has not happened ..