RBOS Loan mystery!!

[foxyflugel]

Hi everyone,

 

Posting this on behalf of my OH. On clearing out a cupboard in our house I discovered letters from RBOS banding variuous figures about and they just didn't add up. It was niggling away at me so I spoke to Triton on my OH's behalf. It went like this: -

1st call - the loan was £11,300 + 7.9% interest = £15,763.20. He (Triton bloke) then offered a settlement figure of £300 - bal outstanding is approx £3793.

2nd call - the £4,463.20 'interest' figure was a 'charge' - not interest. Requested they send the £300 settlement figure out in writing and they refused - it is not their policy to do so apparently!! (strange).

 

I then found 1 single statement saying (on last sheet)

 

Amount of credit - main loan £11,300

Applicable interest rate

From XX Sept 2008 to XX May 2009 the interest charged is equivalent to a fixed annual rate of 13.96% over the term of the loan.

The amount of interest payable is calculated at the beginning of the agreement and is shown combined with the amount of credit drawn as the 'loan balance'.

 

3rd call - spoke to the same guy as call 1. He said that the 'charge' was charge for credit. I said to him that the APR was 7.9% and told him of the statement I had found. He was confused also, as apparently they only get an amount to 'chase' from RBOS. He then asked if the account had ever been in arrears.

 

My OH arranged with RBOS to make his payments into his RBOS current account (even though he no longer banks with them - and this was their demand to keep it as the servicing account). He changed his address to our new address. Then, after about 2 years we realised that he wasn't receiving anything from them. When he called to query this, they had failed to change his address - at all. They actioned this and he received a current account statement £7k+ in credit. Then he received a loan arrears letter. We sorted this out and they transferred the money across - as they had failed to action these transfers which has put the loan in arrears. The money was sat on the current account - their fault - not his!!

 

Also when I spoke to Triton (he pays £50 weekly) this hasn't been put onto his account since beginning of Dec 2009!(although it has left our account) Yet the settlement figure as of beginning of Dec is £300! Do banks usually write off £3,500??????

 

I also believe that the total loan + interest is £11,300 - but on his statements there is no 'audit trail' of the money. I also find this strange as I used to work for a bank and you had to process all the entries at the same time eg, loan for £10k - clearing off existing loan for £6,500K - so therefore £10k was credited £6.5k was debited and it would leave their account £3.5k in credit.

 

I believe something is going on here - but I can't quite put my finger on it - any ideas????

 

Sorry for the long post.

 

Thanks in advance.

[patrickq1]

as you have pointed out it does not sound right i think it would be best to get all your statements from the bank who were making the payments the write to trito and request a ful audit trail of all payments made because somewhere there will be a paper trail as to where the money has gone

if you think something fraudulent has been occuring report it to the fraud squad but i think you will need some evidence before you can do the latter

rgds

patrickq1

[patrickq1]

just read it again looks like its rbos where the problen appears in that case contact the auditing and investigations department at the head office of rbos

[foxyflugel]

You don't have an address do you? I have typed a letter detailing the complaint/query but can't find the correct address to send it to.

 

Many thanks for your quick reply.

[patrickq1]

ive asked for help on this thread foxy

patrickq1

[paulwlton]

The general advice given is to submit a full DSAR and CCA request.

 

PW

[foxyflugel]

Thanks Patrick

[andrew1]

Also keep in mind Triton ARE RBS it's their own in-house Debt collection agency. Their accounts, staff, paperclips are all paid for by RBS/Natwest and Triton are actually registered at Companies House as 'dormant' (legal I am told by CH) as there are no transactions undertaken by Triton whatsoever. So any cr*p you get from Triton that they don't know something is tosh. Just useful to know when 'negotiating'.

 

As for the write-off, sounds like a good deal to me £300 to clear the account. If that's in full and final settlement then I'd go for it and you can raise the other issues of the account afterwards.

 

Follow Paulwlton threads on RBS and Sparkie, they have uncovered what you are suspecting and I'd say Paul is an 'expert' who has said but a few words on your thread but who's guidance is as good as you'll get on here in regard to RBS and these ' odd figures'. Just click on his name, 'see statistics' View posts and threads and you'll pick up the jist. Good luck. well done Patrick for picking this up. You're a trooper and a great support mechanism.

[pebsham]

In my experience of Triton they ask on the telephone for a small sum (mine was £350) as settlement. I also asked for this in writing and was refused. After I made the payment I received a letter thanking me for my payment and offering me "affordable" monthly payments until the "debt" was cleared.

 

The money I paid them on the phone after being lied to was a "trigger" amount for the agent to show he had initiated a payment agreement and I guess helped with his monthly figures.

 

After realising I'd been punk'd I rang Triton and explained that the figure I'd been given was full and final payment and was told that I must have been mistaken etc and would I like to make a payment.

 

I explained that I had recorded the conversation (I hadn't - but I do now), and said I would read back the transcription I had made. I started to read out my "transcription" and the agent said that she would have to speak to a colleague. After about 30 seconds she informed me that she would refer back to her "client" (ie Brenda in the next office) & Triton ceased to contact me any more after this. I was further persued by nastier and nastier insects but that's another tale.

 

I just thought that my two pennys worth might be helpful but it may not be so in the OP's case. Maybe RBS have tuned over a new rock.

[andrew1]

Well explained pebsham, it's these tactics that bring this forum to life. You have just stopped foxyflugil from being conned and this kind of practice should be reported to the OFT Trading Standards.

 

What could happen in these cases is when an account is statute barred (over 6yrs without payment or acknowledgment of debt) this payment could start the clock ticking all over again so it is Vital that these tactics are exposed.

 

They never stop stooping lower and lower these companies.

[Sparkie1723]

Triton operate from a certain place in Telford called CMS.......this is the office that manipulate accounts ( as Paul & I have discovered ) although they say your account is still in its original state ( as a current account)you will possibly discover, if you investigate deeply that you will have a "Router Account"..................... in your DSAR specifically ask for details and records of this "Router Account" should one have been allocated.

They will more than likely, be reluctant to supply you with this given the state of affairs at this present time.

 

sparkie

[foxyflugel]

Thanks everyone for your replies I just smelled a rat when they said that they couldn't send out the settlement figure in writing. The woman did, however, say that if he committed to pay it within the next 14days - then she could send it out in writing. It's useful to know that Trition IS actually RBOS - as this guy said that he could not see any history. He also said that the 'settlement' figure was only valid for 28 days - and I had already requested statements on this a/c (so I could see what was going on) and he said they could take up to 28 days to arrive. My OH is still making payments BTW. What also aroused my suspicions was that this guy was too keen for me to pay the £300 there and then over the phone. So what do I do with this a/c - is it worth sending my complaint/query letter or not??? If I pay the £300 and they have lied - what can I do then? Also, when I asked how the settlement figure was calculated he said he wasn't sure - that there was just an early settlement figure on screen already calculated.

[foxyflugel]

Sparkie - what is a router a/c?? Would this have anything to do with the latest payments being delayed to the account??

[andrew1]

Thanks everyone for your replies I just smelled a rat when they said that they couldn't send out the settlement figure in writing. The woman did, however, say that if he committed to pay it within the next 14days - then she could send it out in writing. It's useful to know that Trition IS actually RBOS - as this guy said that he could not see any history. He also said that the 'settlement' figure was only valid for 28 days - and I had already requested statements on this a/c (so I could see what was going on) and he said they could take up to 28 days to arrive. My OH is still making payments BTW. What also aroused my suspicions was that this guy was too keen for me to pay the £300 there and then over the phone. So what do I do with this a/c - is it worth sending my complaint/query letter or not??? If I pay the £300 and they have lied - what can I do then? Also, when I asked how the settlement figure was calculated he said he wasn't sure - that there was just an early settlement figure on screen already calculated.

 

I'd say get it in writing first, ask them to email you the details if you can, but you won't make any payment unless they confirm that the payment you are making is a) an early settlement payment, b) it is in full and final settlement.

 

NEVER trust a dca, NEVER trust what they say on the phone. If you are recording the phone calls ask the individual to give his/her name or allocated number if they do not give out names (some don't for security reasons, but they do get allocated a number if that is happening so get that). I'd also tell them that you are recording the call in this instance if you are speaking to them and ask them if they are prepared to acknowledge the offer is in full and final settlement and that this recoding will be produced in evidence should he /she be lying. Bear in mind that companies are no longer allowed to Mislead. I can't quite remeber which act or regulation it is but something like the Unfair terms or one of those.. someone will tell you on here if you need it.

[foxyflugel]

Thanks Pebsham - that is really useful to know - so it is an attempt to shaft you from a great height then.

[andrew1]

Sparkie - what is a router a/c?? Would this have anything to do with the latest payments being delayed to the account??

 

Sparkie will give you chapter and verse on this, but it is allegedly a double recording of your account. It is allegedly set up to show the higher interest payments you spotted and show that RBS has an inflated asset in your borrowings which the public are not supposed to know about, but which show the RBS are worth more than they are to shareholders (like all we taxpayers) so they can get bailed out. They alledgedly run a parallel accounting system in Telford set up by the Credit Management team and is causing a few red faces just now around Parliament and boardrooms in the banking world thanks to Paul and sparkie..

Edited January 16, 2010 by andrew1

[foxyflugel]

OMG Andrew I know that banks are a bunch of shysters but I never thought they would do anything like this. Wow - that has been a reality check on them. I knew I was right - but didn't know what was wrong!! Do they have to do anything about it then - do they know they have been rumbled?? So - if I record our conversation and get their name etc and them to clarify, without doubt, that the payment is an early settlement figure in full and final payment - then if they try it on I can use that evidence in court??

[foxyflugel]

In my experience of Triton they ask on the telephone for a small sum (mine was £350) as settlement. I also asked for this in writing and was refused. After I made the payment I received a letter thanking me for my payment and offering me "affordable" monthly payments until the "debt" was cleared.

 

The money I paid them on the phone after being lied to was a "trigger" amount for the agent to show he had initiated a payment agreement and I guess helped with his monthly figures.

 

After realising I'd been punk'd I rang Triton and explained that the figure I'd been given was full and final payment and was told that I must have been mistaken etc and would I like to make a payment.

 

I explained that I had recorded the conversation (I hadn't - but I do now), and said I would read back the transcription I had made. I started to read out my "transcription" and the agent said that she would have to speak to a colleague. After about 30 seconds she informed me that she would refer back to her "client" (ie Brenda in the next office) & Triton ceased to contact me any more after this. I was further persued by nastier and nastier insects but that's another tale.

 

I just thought that my two pennys worth might be helpful but it may not be so in the OP's case. Maybe RBS have tuned over a new rock.

 

 

 

Can't see that happening myself (the latter bold - not the 1st!!)

 

Can I ask that you expand slightly, if you would, on your 1st bold line. How did you get it sorted??

 

Many thanks - I am grateful for your input.

[andrew1]

OMG Andrew I know that banks are a bunch of shysters but I never thought they would do anything like this. Wow - that has been a reality check on them. I knew I was right - but didn't know what was wrong!! Do they have to do anything about it then - do they know they have been rumbled?? So - if I record our conversation and get their name etc and them to clarify, without doubt, that the payment is an early settlement figure in full and final payment - then if they try it on I can use that evidence in court??

 

The idea is to stay away from court, so a negotiated settlement is always the best option and cleaner too. Just make sure you get the credit reference agency entry marked as satisfied too.

 

To answer do they have to do anything now they've been rumbled? Yes, Go straight to jail, do not pass Go, do not pick up £200....

[foxyflugel]

The idea is to stay away from court, so a negotiated settlement is always the best option and cleaner too. Just make sure you get the credit reference agency entry marked as satisfied too.

 

To answer do they have to do anything now they've been rumbled? Yes, Go straight to jail, do not pass Go, do not pick up £200....

 

 

Thanks for that Andrew Need some cheering up at the minute as this is all getting me down a bit. Just started a thread on Natwest as they have done the default thing with OH (or threatening to) - had enough of all the ****s to last me a lifetime. Got to get mad now though - not sad - and show em whats what lol

 

Do I send my letter (and see what they reply - IF they do!) or send an official template off here - and is so - which 1??

[pebsham]

Can't see that happening myself (the latter bold - not the 1st!!)

 

Can I ask that you expand slightly, if you would, on your 1st bold line. How did you get it sorted??

 

Many thanks - I am grateful for your input.

 

 

I sent letters to various senior managers explaining that my alleged debt was composed primarily of unlawful charges but many of these were more than 6 years old. I then asked for a FULL disclosure of my account showing all debits and credits since the account was set up (about 10 years ago). My reasoning was quite simply that if they couldn't provide a FULL audit trail they couldn't prove the alleged debt.

 

My final contact from them was about 2 years ago from a senior manager explaining that they didn't keep records that far back. (Yes I know that old chestnut!)

My reply was no proof then no debt and to get back to me if they ever came up with FULL disclosure as a court might feel that institutes once thought to be honest might no longer be thought of as such.

 

So far they've checked under the beds, behind the cushions on the sofa & even looked behind the old cupboard that grandma left them that's too heavy to move but it seems they still haven't found my account history.

[patrickq1]

Triton operate from a certain place in Telford called CMS.......this is the office that manipulate accounts ( as Paul & I have discovered ) although they say your account is still in its original state ( as a current account)you will possibly discover, if you investigate deeply that you will have a "Router Account"..................... in your DSAR specifically ask for details and records of this "Router Account" should one have been allocated.

They will more than likely, be reluctant to supply you with this given the state of affairs at this present time.

 

sparkie

thanks sparkie

as you know my nat west account is at telford, it was 12500 in 1992 i dare'nt think what it will be now only one problem they have never contacted me since but they do have a charge on my property but have you seen my post BANK LIBEL

patrickq1

[foxyflugel]

Triton are unbelievable. OH received a letter today saying thanks for setting up the new payment plan for the next 6 months!! We didn't - what are they playing at?? Forgive me for having a blonde moment - but which letter do I send to them for them to produce the signed agreement and all the transaction history?? Asap please if possible cos I want to print it tommorow and get it sent off - as they are not getting another penny until we receive it

[foxyflugel]

The plot thickens!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sent off a CCA request and a SAR request (which also requested any details of router accounts in place) as per the advice given to me by you guys. This was sent on 19th Jan/20th Jan 2nd class.

 

Their time was up on Thursday 11th for CCA request and I never had time to do the next letter yesterday. Had to take my Great Dane to a cardiologist in SHeff which pretty much took up most of my day - and then had a snifter (or 3) of Baileys in celebration of my birthday!! lol

 

Today, I have received a letter from RBS (dated 9th Feb) returning my £1 postal order and stating that because the account is now paid in full and closed they no longer have to comply with my request!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

They sent me a statement of the loan but it is not up to date - there is about a year missing!! When I last spoke to Triton (when OH had received an account in arrears letter) they said that they had received no money to the account since 1st week in Dec (I can prove it has left the account as it has been doing for years!!) - so where has the £300 gone??? I stopped paying it when I smelt a rat and was well prepared for the battle ahead. He has not paid anything since January and they haven't chased anything!! I worked it out and I believe the original loan was £11,300 in total (as per previous thread) and he has paid just under £12k. How can they say that it is settled or paid in full when I have letters stating what the outstanding balance is??? What the hell is going on and how does he get his overpayments back????? What is my next move????? Please please advise - Thanks

[patrickq1]

if I record our conversation and get their name etc and them to clarify, without doubt, that the payment is an early settlement figure in full and final payment - then if they try it on I can use that evidence in court??

 

yes it can be used in courtroom as evidence provided you can get them to clarify that this is in full and final settlement.....router accounts are a means of hiving money of and mostly used as collatrel when they split and sell packages of the same loan the itrest is a trick rbs use to show the client who is buying that he is getting a garaunteed package with x amount profit...dont for one minit beleive that this guy from triton is offering full and final it is like pesh said a trigger to begin the loan proccessing and you have agreed to this as far as they are concerned so the golden rule is get everything recorded and in writing even if you ask him just send a quick e mail confirming this position,then you got it 300 is a joke price and all they will do is sell the remaining debt to some other lowlife company who specialise in hounding people and creating fear...just remember you control this situation not them....also you must DSAR AND CCA RBS ,whilst continue the payments this way Triton wont know you have Dsar RBS you need the full audit trail and also anything pertaining to the router account....

patrickq1