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wannabedebtfreesoon

elcome for illegal repo in contravention of section 92 and unfair relationship ** WON **

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Thanks Leakie :madgrin:

 

There were a few times when I thought I was gonna buckle under the strain but we got there in the end. The appeal process is incredibly complicated, no information or rules appear to be clear or even consistent! That has got to have been one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my life, especially with the rawness of the hideous freak show trial still fresh in my memory. I seem to have developed some kind of bizarre phobia of courts and all things legal, so walking into Birmingham High Court today was quite a mammoth task :!:

 

Anybody considering an appeal, or a claim for that matter, should do some serious soul searching beforehand. You will need a will of steel and an army of support for starters!


“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Ghandi

"You must have the resources to deal with the judicial intervention - the confidence not to be overawed, the resilience to respond, the tenacity to challenge, the tact to mollify, the authority to inform and persuade."

 

Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.

 

<-- If I have helped in any way please click my star!! ;)

Oh and I am a lady!! :)

 

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Have the site team changed things again,

no date and post numbers or is it me,sorry for digressing

Also with apologies for the digression, I too am missing the date and post numbering. Windows XP/IE7. Can anyone point us to where we should register this problem?

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Also with apologies for the digression, I too am missing the date and post numbering. Windows XP/IE7. Can anyone point us to where we should register this problem?

 

Hi,

The site had an upgrade yesterday and with any such thing, gremlins creep in too. These issues are being addressed so bear with us. Thanks


If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Thanks Silverfox for the update,

just get a bit confusing trying to find older posts

 

Sorry again Wannabe

 

Leakie

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WOW, What can i say?

I found this forum looking for assistance & help myself but having come onto your thread Wannabe i've gained so much information and desire to help my own situation.

You've come a hell of a long way now, keep at it and no matter how important this is to you, keep light on other important things close to you as this will provide the strength you'll need to see this out.

Easier said than done but looking through this today you've already proven your very much capable.

Looking forward to seeing you continue to fight the fight.

K.

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Wannabe, Old friend :)

 

Well as others have echoed I came across this thread expecting a big WON and was surprised to find it still on going.

 

I'm gutted you still haven't got the right outcome, but I'm sure in time you will have a big :) on your face, I'm going to miss this thread when it is all over :(

 

Now take them to the cleaners missy :p

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Damn... so whats the latest?

 

Could you end up with massive costs if you lose at the HC? Conversely could you end up with a massive lump sum if you win?

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Deleted - Posted in wrong thread :(

 

Mike


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So, interesting turn of events today :???:

I used my 14 extra days to complete the skeleton argument supporting grounds of appeal and took it along to the High Court today. When I filled in the Appeal Notice I also made further applications for a stay of execution and a copy of the transcript at public expense. Whilst submitting my skelly today, the clerk told me that my application for a copy of the transcript at public expense had been granted and I would receive directions in the form of an order in a few days.

 

I have to admit I'm a bit confused by all of this, I was under the impression that all the applications would be dealt with together and it would take quite some time for a decision on permission to be reached??

 

Does anybody know how long on average it usually takes for applications for permission to be dealt with on paper?


“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Ghandi

"You must have the resources to deal with the judicial intervention - the confidence not to be overawed, the resilience to respond, the tenacity to challenge, the tact to mollify, the authority to inform and persuade."

 

Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.

 

<-- If I have helped in any way please click my star!! ;)

Oh and I am a lady!! :)

 

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Damn... so whats the latest?

 

Could you end up with massive costs if you lose at the HC? Conversely could you end up with a massive lump sum if you win?

The latest is that permission to appeal has been requested from the High Court and I'm just waiting to find out if it's been granted or refused 'on paper'. I do know that my application for a copy of the transcript at public expense has been granted, so definitely a step in the right direction :-D

 

It is true that I might end up with a large bill if I lose, but this battle is about getting justice and obtaining a precedent as opposed to money. At present my situation is that I have absolutely nothing lose, (apart from time and sanity!), so even if things don't go my way in the end, they can't take something from me I haven't got.

 

I don't think I would end up with a massive lump sum if I win as the claim wasn't for a massive amount in the first place, but the value to me of beating welcome in the High Court is entirely priceless! :madgrin:


“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Ghandi

"You must have the resources to deal with the judicial intervention - the confidence not to be overawed, the resilience to respond, the tenacity to challenge, the tact to mollify, the authority to inform and persuade."

 

Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.

 

<-- If I have helped in any way please click my star!! ;)

Oh and I am a lady!! :)

 

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Hi, can you clarify was the car parked on your drive or car park, was it a dca collecting the car for someone you owe money to or are in arrears with. If it was a case you had bought the car without checking hpi etc please clarify, i can help with this, need to know some background first

 

all the best

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You need to have some faith, the appeal will be sorted. It's not about money, it's the principle and the chance to make law. Read through this thread nad you will get the flavour.No appeal is ever going to be easy but as long as the obvious mistakes have been avoided then it shoould be fine. As for the obvious mistakes, it is ok to say a judge has made a mistake in interperting the law, as long as you don't say they were biassed against you, as that is reducing the argument to the level of the playground.Like I say show some faith.

Oh dear it looks like I've resorted to playground tactics then :!: After addressing all the issues with how the judge was wrong it's actually very difficult to see how you could say there was anything other than bias!

 

He even ruled in their favour at times when they admitted they were wrong! One example of many I could quote:-

 

Them: we only paid a tiny bit of commission and so it was irrelevant,

 

Me: Here is written evidence of how much commission was paid and it was a hell of a lot more than you say, I notice you have omitted this document from your bundle.

 

Them: (uncomfortable shuffle) ok we agree it was more but it still wasn't a very large amount compared to some other cases,

 

Judge: I rule they only paid the tiny bit they first admitted to, (even though they changed their mind, backtracked, agreed they were wrong and don't have any evidence), and it was such a small amount it was irrelevant.

 

My evidence and case law was just ignored.

 

WTF??? Apart from being wrong, how can that be anything other than bias?


“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Ghandi

"You must have the resources to deal with the judicial intervention - the confidence not to be overawed, the resilience to respond, the tenacity to challenge, the tact to mollify, the authority to inform and persuade."

 

Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.

 

<-- If I have helped in any way please click my star!! ;)

Oh and I am a lady!! :)

 

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The judge spent the whole day complaining about how understaffed they were due to various judges being off sick and could we just "hurry this up??"

Farcical to say the least! He took the easy way out because it was just taking too long. I do understand there must be time limits and trials cannot go on indefinitely, but surely fairness and justice should still remain the priority?!!


“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Ghandi

"You must have the resources to deal with the judicial intervention - the confidence not to be overawed, the resilience to respond, the tenacity to challenge, the tact to mollify, the authority to inform and persuade."

 

Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.

 

<-- If I have helped in any way please click my star!! ;)

Oh and I am a lady!! :)

 

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Totally agree with you Wannabe, but it just seems that either :

 

a:) These Judges are so up their own backsides, that they have no idea of what goes on in the "Real World"

or

b:) They are just plain afraid to rule against large organisations, in favour of the "little" man (or woman!)

 

Hopefully, when you get to appeal level, the Judges are a bit more level headed and focused..

 

Mike


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Totally agree with you Wannabe, but it just seems that either :

 

a:) These Judges are so up their own backsides, that they have no idea of what goes on in the "Real World"

or

b:) They are just plain afraid to rule against large organisations, in favour of the "little" man (or woman!)

 

Hopefully, when you get to appeal level, the Judges are a bit more level headed and focused..

 

Mike

Well it looks like we'll get to find out sooner rather than later! Just had notice from the High Court there will be a hearing between end of June middle of July in front of a High Court Judge.

 

Have to say I'm a bit confused as to what is going on right now as it is totally NOT what I was expecting to have received :shock:

 

The High Court have written to the lower court asking for them to make a copy of the transcript available at public expense and it be sent to me and that I need to submit an appeal bundle within 35 days of today.

 

I am so confused!!! It appears to be saying that there will be a permission to appeal hearing followed immediately by the hearing of the appeal with a total time estimate of 2 hours and that the other side should prepare.... How can that possibly happen????

I think I need to post up the actual wording of the letter and get others' opinion, maybe I'm misconstruing what has been written :???:


“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Ghandi

"You must have the resources to deal with the judicial intervention - the confidence not to be overawed, the resilience to respond, the tenacity to challenge, the tact to mollify, the authority to inform and persuade."

 

Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.

 

<-- If I have helped in any way please click my star!! ;)

Oh and I am a lady!! :)

 

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"WITHOUT NOTICE

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT;

Apellant's application for permission to appeal, with the hearing of the appeal (subject to permission) to follow, with a total time estimate of two hours, will be heard before a High Court Judge at *** Civil Justice Centre at 10.30am, on a date to be fixed, within a hearing window commencing 27th June 2011 and ending 15th July 2011,. NOTE TO THE RESPONDENT: this order is a direction under CPR PD 52 para 5.22 that the respondent should prepare for the hearing of the appeal, notwithstanding that permission has not been granted."

 

**directions about filing and serving an appeal bundle**

 

"There be a stay of execution of the order the subject matter of this appeal pending the outcome of this appeal or further order."

 

All opinions gratefully received!!


“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Ghandi

"You must have the resources to deal with the judicial intervention - the confidence not to be overawed, the resilience to respond, the tenacity to challenge, the tact to mollify, the authority to inform and persuade."

 

Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.

 

<-- If I have helped in any way please click my star!! ;)

Oh and I am a lady!! :)

 

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This is totally from reading law cases online and not from experience or legal knowledge, but it seems to be quite common that the permission to appeal hearing is immediately followed by the appeal (subject to permission having been granted of course!). You need to prepare for both and keep your fingers crossed.


RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Thanks for that :-)

This is all so strange to me, I know very little about appeals and then whatever I learn seems to get quashed! I was expecting a decision on my application for permission on paper followed by an oral hearing if that was refused, and then the hearing of the actual appeal some months later, the whole process taking the best part of a year! :|

What has actually happened is - I submitted applications for permission to appeal, a stay of execution pending the outcome of the appeal and a copy of the transcript to be provided at public expense on 3rd May. 10 days later a Judge had looked at my applications, decided I could have a copy of the transcript, I could have a stay and fixed a time for hearing the application for permission and hearing the subsequent appeal in 5-7 weeks! Now that's what you call service :!:

 

I've been told I will receive a transcript of the judgment and I need to file and serve my appeal bundle within 5 weeks.

 

I wonder how the other side will react to this course of events? Upon receipt of the sealed appellant's notice from the High Court they wrote to me saying they would "issue an appropriate response if and when permission is granted" - not gonna be much time for that if it's immediately followed by the appeal itself lol!

 

Looks like the second and final round is coming up very soon... I can't believe this is finally, finally going to be over!


“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Ghandi

"You must have the resources to deal with the judicial intervention - the confidence not to be overawed, the resilience to respond, the tenacity to challenge, the tact to mollify, the authority to inform and persuade."

 

Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.

 

<-- If I have helped in any way please click my star!! ;)

Oh and I am a lady!! :)

 

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wow wannabe....

 

Are your ready? Can you go straight after a permission hearing? Do you have everything you need (aside from filing and transcripts etc etc)... If you've been given two hours do you think you can get everything in in that two hours or will it continue for longer? Sorry for the many questions, I am really hoping that you get a massive victory from this.

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I think the transcript is crucial here. Again, I'm going by what I've read of appeal hearings and I don't know exactly what the grounds for appeal are, but I think that the major part will be going through the transcript word by word if necessary and pointing out each and every possible departure from the law, e.g. the judge found as fact that ... but failed to apply s xxx of the xxxxx act correctly so that xxxxxx.

 

My memory is not great and it's some time since I read all the details of this case, but isn't the basic foundation that Welcome repossessed the vehicle from private property without a court order? Therefore at every step it should be 'the judge found as fact that xxx entered private property to take the vehicle etc.....'


RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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I think the transcript is crucial here. Again, I'm going by what I've read of appeal hearings and I don't know exactly what the grounds for appeal are, but I think that the major part will be going through the transcript word by word if necessary and pointing out each and every possible departure from the law, e.g. the judge found as fact that ... but failed to apply s xxx of the xxxxx act correctly so that xxxxxx.

 

My memory is not great and it's some time since I read all the details of this case, but isn't the basic foundation that Welcome repossessed the vehicle from private property without a court order? Therefore at every step it should be 'the judge found as fact that xxx entered private property to take the vehicle etc.....'

Thank you for all your help, it's really useful.

There are 3 grounds for appeal:

 

Ground 1- Mis-selling of Payment Protection Insurance

1) The Judge misinterpreted the nature of the claimant’s claim alleging misselling of PPI as being that of the unsuitability of the product. The claimant claimed that the PPI was mis-sold as it was made a condition of the finance and made no allegation to its suitability.

2) The judge incorrectly held that the presence of claimant’s signature on the agreement was sufficient to prove the PPI was sold correctly and failed to consider whether the supplier gave to its customer information "that was clear, fair and not misleading" so that an informed choice could be made.

3) The Judge failed to consider the evidence which shows clear systematic problems in the methods used by the defendant on previous sales of PPI policies.

 

Ground 2- The payment of a Secret Commission to a Broker

4) The Judge overlooked written evidence showing a substantial amount of commission paid by the defendant to a broker, an unsubstantiated verbal averment by the defendant’s witness was relied upon in the judgment despite the higher amount being conceded by the defendant’s counsel during the trial.

5) The defendant conceded that there had been no disclosure regarding the payment of commission at the instigation of the agreement.

6) The lesser amount was allowed by the judge as being non causal, the judge was wrong to allow causation to be a complete defence to the claimant’s claims of secrecy and lack of fair and open dealings.

 

Ground 3- Breach of Section 92 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

7) The Judge found in the claimant’s favour in a claim for trespass but subsequently either misinterpreted or failed to acknowledge Section 92 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, by which the agreement was regulated, overlooked supporting text and failed to make a consequential judgment.

8 ) The Judge was wrong to make an order that Section 92 was not applicable when the defendant’s defence was a denial that they entered the premises as opposed to a question of the relevance of the Law.

 

 

Does anybody know if it's too late to do a Part 18 request???


“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Ghandi

"You must have the resources to deal with the judicial intervention - the confidence not to be overawed, the resilience to respond, the tenacity to challenge, the tact to mollify, the authority to inform and persuade."

 

Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.

 

<-- If I have helped in any way please click my star!! ;)

Oh and I am a lady!! :)

 

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My response was to the ghost to show some faith in this, although telling one high court judge that his mate who is another high court judge was biassed just didn't seem sensible, who knows? It is probably too late for a part 18 request as they are used to obtain further information about the proceedings. Arguably the proceedings have ceased and only the appeal is left. You could always submit a request and see what comes back. Bit surprised you have to appear for permission to appeal. Usually if the appeall has merit then permission is granted on the paperwork alone, just leaving the bun fight in the court later.

Thank you for your support.

It's confused me too but I've been speaking to a barrister and apparently this is how it goes these days, an attempt at streamlining the process and saving expense allegedly. It would appear that if an appeal had no merit it would be refused on paper, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

 

The first judge wasn't a High Court judge and I've looked into further and found that there have been other instances where his judgments were overturned on the basis that "the judge didn't take into account all the evidence and invented the incident" Hmmm... sounds familiar!

 

I believe that High Court judges are obliged to follow the letter of the law as this is where case law precedents are set, so hopefully things will get sorted once and for all.

 

Don't think I'll bother with the Part 18 request, I'm just getting myself worked up over nothing because this whole thing has been such a travesty :|


“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” - Ghandi

"You must have the resources to deal with the judicial intervention - the confidence not to be overawed, the resilience to respond, the tenacity to challenge, the tact to mollify, the authority to inform and persuade."

 

Strength does not come from winning. Your struggles develop your strengths. When you go through hardships and decide not to surrender, that is strength.

 

<-- If I have helped in any way please click my star!! ;)

Oh and I am a lady!! :)

 

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Hi Wannabe

 

Been following this for nearly a year now, and am in stunned awe at the courage and application you've demonstrated so far :thumb:. Eagerly awaiting the outcome of this cos my case is so similar, right down to the use of the Police to enforce the repossesion. The only worrying bit for me is the fact that at over £25,000 in 2006 it was classed as an unregulated loan, no idea whether that disqualifies me, but anyway, best of luck for the big day

 

You are an inspiration, and I don't say that verey often

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looking for quick advice as court hearing tomorrow (WEDNESDAY)

 

posted new thread (it wont let me include link)

 

looking to get quick feedback for next steps before hearing June 8

 

Much appreciated in advance

 

Merc

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looking for quick advice as court hearing tomorrow (WEDNESDAY)

 

posted new thread (it wont let me include link)

 

looking to get quick feedback for next steps before hearing June 8

 

Much appreciated in advance

 

Merc

 

Sorry we missed your date, have posted your thread link below however.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?308474-Allocation-court-hearing-tomorrow-urgent-help-needed&highlight=

 

How'd you get on, still need help?


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