Welcome - illegal repo in contravention of section 92 and unfair relationship ** WON **

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Light blue touch paper and retreat a safe distance and wait for the pretty fireworks.

 

The blue touch paper has been ignited and the pretty fireworks have begun!!

After my meeting with the sergeant, (affectionately known to us as Sgt. FB-think Austin Powers!), whereby he informed me he would NOT be investigating this matter, I today received a letter from the Professional Standards Department asking me to contact an Inspector to arrange a time to discuss my complaint!

 

This being quite odd considering I hadn't yet lodged my complaint! After speaking to Inspector X on the phone it appears an unknown Sgt. forwarded my complaint to them without my consent and they were duty bound to investigate according to the Police Reform Act 2002. The inspector then informed me that the complaint made on my behalf was that a police officer was complicit in the theft of my vehicle!!!

 

In all my correspondence with them I have never used this term so where has it come from?? And why would a Sgt. forward this part of my complaint when Sgt. FB told me in no uncertain terms this would not be investigated because he didn't agree with me???!

 

It appears to me, maybe I'm mistaken but, Sgt. FB has gone away, done a little research into the law and then sacrificed his junior officer in a vain attempt to save his own rather large ar*e??

 

A police officer complicit with the theft of my vehicle! That's sooo great, I'd like to see Welcome squirm out of this one!

Just when I thought things couldn't get any cheerier I also received a copy of a DN allegedly sent on the 16th of July that is as defective as hell!!

 

Bring on the fireworks!!

[joebloggs]

One can only think the complaint was passed on by the Sgt who visited you.

The Police like anyone else doesnt like complaints, so will (for the sake of diplomacy) try and deal with matters as quickly and informally as possible.

Sounds to me like he has gone away and realised you arent going to go away.

Dont expect too much to come of this with regards to the policing side of things i reckon the best you can expect is a conclusion of words f advice being given to the officer concerned.

However whatever the outcome as long as it reflects your contention the car was removed unlawfully can only back up your claim in the future.

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

It's true, his visit to me was very much a fobbing off session to try and make me think that any action I wanted to take was futile and that I'd be better off agreeing to him giving the officer a ticking off and be happy with it!

They're coming out to see me in a few weeks to get all the evidence, the inspector seemed to think it was a very serious matter so we shall see. There is no denying the facts tho; taking the car off private property without my consent and without a repossession order is unlawful and "actionable as breach of statutory duty" as stated in the Act. The officer involved assisted them in doing this.

[joebloggs]

I would be very wary of what you say to them both before and indeed during any interview.

It appears he his suggesting theft of a motor vehicle, be wary of agreeing with him, be as none specific on precise terms as you can be.

The reson i say this is becuase if for example they were to go down say a particlar route it can be very easy to disprove it.

If you were hyperthetically speaking agreeing with him on suspected robbery it woudl be easy to disprove robbery, end of story no case to answer and it all goes away.

They are looking for what they call NFA no further action, anything for an easy life.

In all likelyhood he will not come alone but will have a side kick, its doen purely to put you on edge, he may well ask you what you want done about it, again be non specific and go along the lines of i will wait and see what your investigations turn up and seek advice at the appropriate time.

It would be helpful if you had someone with you too, it puts them a little at unease if you have a witness to what is said etc.

[noomill060]

If he brings a sidekick, tell the sidekick to bog off.

 

Its your home and you decide who you see.

 

Make sure that you youself have someone else present for moral support, though.

 

We can all play the passive aggression game......

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Thank you all for your advice, I will take heed. I am taking special care over what I say and what I have said, it's all in hand

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Just wanted to give a quick update on this. I definitely haven't given up and the big guns are out now

Well I finally got to see a decent inspector with regard the complaint about the Police. I managed to explain everything and she was very understanding and supportive; she's even looking into the fact that I might be able to sue the force for their part in this, although I'm not holding my breath!

As far as I'm concerned, as long as the officer involved gets some sort of reprimand for his behaviour I'm happy to leave it at that and save my attention for the cretins that did this in the first place!

 

I've had Welcome's final response to the FOS complaint which is as much nonsense as I expected it to be!

Me: "You didn't send me a Default Notice or follow the correct procedure"

Welcome: "This is our final response to your complaint- Yes we did"

 

 

The cheeky so and so's even sent me another Default notice AFTER they had taken the car including arrears of instalments AFTER the termination notice!!

 

I have just sent them a Letter Before Action, so they've now got 14 days to do the right thing or I will take this to court. Speaking of which; I hope somebody can give me some pointers with regard the court claim, I'd really like to have it pre-prepared for when the time comes

 

If it's any help I can post up the LBA in a bit.

 

Thanks so much for all your help, I'd never have the guts to do anything like this if there wasn't so much support on here x

[postggj]

hi wanabee

 

been off the grid for a few weeks

knee again

 

any chance of an update

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Here is an edited version of the letter I sent yesterday, I'm assuming this will be the basis of my POC, but any advice will be greatly received! I'm sure you'll recognise some parts of it as CAG has been of major assistance

 

 

Welcome Financial Services Ltd

Compliance Department

Ruddington Fields Business Park

Ruddington

Nottingham

NG11 6NZ

 

Date:

 

Agreement Number:

Financial Ombudsman Service Reference:

Your Reference

 

 

 

Unlawful Repossession

Fourteen Day LETTER BEFORE ACTION

I am now in receipt of your final response regarding this complaint. I remain dissatisfied with your response and maintain that no default notice was received by me. I have since received a copy of the Default Notice and Termination letter from the local branch; I can now see that a default was issued but whether or not it was actually sent to me is another matter as I have not seen any proof of postage.

I have also noticed that you have included the term “Without Prejudice” on both documents. I am very confused as to why this term has been added to legal documents when they are clearly intended to be produced in a Court of Law should this be necessary. I trust I will have your consent for these legal documents to be used in any court proceedings that may arise as a result of this matter.

I regularly check my credit file and have a print out to show that no default had ever been registered against this account, so I could not be reasonably expected to assume that one even existed and so be given any opportunity to rectify the breach. Neither have I seen a copy of any Court Repossession Order required by Welcome in order to repossess the vehicle off private property, as stated in Section 92 subsection (1) of The Consumer Credit Act 1974; by which this agreement was regulated.

“92 Recovery of possession of goods or land

(1) Except under an order of the court, the creditor or owner shall not be entitled to enter any premises to take possession of goods subject to a regulated hire-purchase agreement, regulated conditional sale agreement or regulated consumer hire agreement.”

 

As stated in your final response letter, you are aware that I had spoken to your colleague, ******** at the local branch on the 15th January 2010. During that conversation ******** informed me that he had driven past my house on the morning of the repossession and seen the vehicle present. ******** must also have noted that the vehicle was parked on private property but instructed the repossession agents regardless. I believe this makes him complicit in this unlawful repossession and also culpable for its consequences; which are stated in Section 92 subsection (3) as:

“(3) An entry in contravention of subsection (1) or (2) is actionable as a breach of statutory duty.”

My complaint to the FOS was that Welcome Finance had not followed the correct procedure when executing the repossession. I still maintain my position and wish to give you an opportunity to rectify this matter before court proceedings are issued. Should there be any doubt about the fact that the vehicle was removed from private property I wish to make it clear that the police were present at the time and photos were taken so I have no issue in proving the ensuing events.

 

 

I consider this an Unlawful Repossession under S.87 and S.92 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and as such my contract with you has now been terminated. On the 11th February 2010 I received a Default Notice with regard this agreement, I am bemused at how Welcome Finance can attempt to issue a Default on a terminated agreement?? Having repossessed the vehicle there can be no doubt that the agreement is terminated. It is also extremely unclear why there was the need for a 2nd default notice considering that you had ‘allegedly’ already defaulted the account on the 16th July 2009.

According to the termination notice the account was terminated on the 4th August 2009, however the 2nd Default notice includes arrears after this date. It appears you are suggesting an obligation persists, post termination, by which I am bound to make installment payments and that if payment of those arrears is made an obligation to make future installment payments would endure. As I am sure you are aware, the obligation to make installment payments was enduring during the currency of the agreement not post termination. The 2nd Default, were it valid, would be defective anyway for overstating the sums due, i.e. You cannot state as an amount due for ‘arrears’ of installments that which you said was no longer due and payable by installments as a consequence of the termination on the 4th August 2009.

Having studied the default notice dated 16th July it has been found to be ineffective in as much as it does not conform to the prescribed standards as laid out in Section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. As a result of this I believe this agreement was terminated unlawfully and also constitutes Unlawful Rescission of Contract. However, the Consumer Credit Act does not declare a termination in breach of Section 87 as void. As such the termination stands and I accept that the agreement was terminated on the 4th August 2009.

"Failure of a Default or Termination Notice to be accurate not only invalidates the Default or Termination Notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain & Co - [1998] All ER (D) 339) but is an unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the Court enforcing any alleged debt, but give the Claimant a claim for damages. (Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119)"

 

This letter is to give your company an opportunity to explain its actions and to rectify this matter to a standard that would be achieved in a Court of Law.

If no response is received after 14 days from receipt an application will be submitted to the Court for the return of All Monies Paid to Welcome Financial Services Ltd including interest at the contractual rate, a replacement vehicle of similar age and condition, costs and damages.

 

I require by return a copy of any Repossession Notice, with a copy of any Court Order for the return of the vehicle.

 

Please note that a copy of this letter will also be sent to my Local Management Branch.

 

I Await Your Response

 

Yours truly,

[mark1arby]

Is anything happening here?

 

Cheers, MARK

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Hello Mark!

Yes it's all go I sent them an LBA which, oddly enough, they've completely ignored!! Today was the 14th day and still no response or even acknowledgement! I've given them ample opportunity to rectify this but they've chosen to not to do anything, so I am currently very excited about filing my n1 Although I am feeling a bit generous so I'm giving them 2 more days

[mark1arby]

Well done! And pleas do let us know how you get on! Regards to you and the Very Best of Luck!

 

Cheers, MARK

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Thanks Mark x

 

Yay! my LBA has reappeared

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

So I finally get a response to my lba! It makes no sense to me so I'm just gonna put it out there to see if anyone else can interpret/translate!!

 

It seems to be a stalling letter stating that they are awaiting a report from the repo agents regarding the involvement of the police, and once they have the info requested they can respond fully to my points.

 

There's no time frame stated and it doesn't say exactly what they want from the agents about the police.

 

My feeling is that I should file the N1 anyway, I mean I could be waiting forever for a "full response" and I can't really see how any "information regarding police involvement" is going to make the blindest bit of difference to the fact that they illegally repossessed my car!!

 

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

OK, I've done them a letter saying "Thank you for your stalling letter, but you're still not getting away with it you cretins. I mean every word and no amount of stalling nonsense is going to make me drop this. I'm feeling generous so you can have 7 more days then I'm taking you to court. (numerical date inserted )."

 

I wonder what fantasy they'll respond with next???!

[cab1ne]

"ok" wanna got your pm.

 

just a slight re-cap, what state is the default notice in

 

cab

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

thanks cab They sent me a "copy" of the DN they allegedly sent and there was no numerical date. Then strangely enough decided to issue another one after they repossessed the car including arrears post termination!

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

It's the letter in response to my lba that's stumped me. I just can't imagine why they need a report from the uplifters regarding the police involvement. Surely that's got nothing to do with the illegal repo???

 

P.s. How did your meeting go today??

[cab1ne]

It's the letter in response to my lba that's stumped me. I just can't imagine why they need a report from the uplifters regarding the police involvement. Surely that's got nothing to do with the illegal repo???

 

P.s. How did your meeting go today??

 

very very well:D:D thanx for asking.

 

he "specialises" in repo (purely defence) and basically they are STUFFED

 

i asked him about repo off private property without a court order. he said a judge (regardless of the circumstances) will put everything back to zero, you will get back what you paid and they are left with nothing to chase, and the creditor is very lucky they are only left with the costs:wink:

 

cab

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

OMG! You've made my day I really needed to hear that today, I've written back giving them a further 7 days to "complete their investigations" but if it's not concluded to my satisfaction in that time I'll be filing my N1 on 25th March. They must know they're screwed

[cab1ne]

i'm pretty sure they do know their stuffed,

 

dont worry to much about the police thing, at the end of the day they are very credible witnesses, when you talk to the top knob again, just let it slip that an appology and their statements when needed will do very nicely:rolleyes:

 

cab

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Ha ha! One step ahead there! Already had the apology and statements will be readily available if needed, no problem at all. It seems they've left themselves open to be sued too for not taking the correct course of action. They want to put a figure on how it's affected me- mmmm.....well I had to buy a new car....

 

Just let me finish with Welcome now and that PC is going to seriously rue the day he came to my door!

[cab1ne]

well done:p

 

one at a time, also the dodgy DN ain't gonna help them niether

 

Section 87 (1):

"Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a ´Default Notice') is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement, -

(a) To terminate the agreement, or (b) To demand earlier payment of any sum, or

© To recover possession of any goods. (d) To treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred or (e) To enforce any security.

(Please take particular attention to © To recover possession of any goods).

 

cab:-D

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Do you think I should mention the dodgy DN and TN in the POC or just stick to the basics??

[cab1ne]

i would, infact i have. iv'e even thrown in the kitchen sink.

 

cab