Disability Advice Needed Quickly

[Scribblar]

Hi. I'm new to these forums. I'm about to be dismissed from work (probably) and have a meeting today.

 

I have worked for the warehouse side of a major international supermarket chain for 3 years, and 8 months (continuous service) and 4 years total service.

 

Over 2 years ago i developed a sore wrist. I was off for five weeks, then brought back to work on light duties. I still found light duties to be very painful and heavy.

 

Since then I have seen several doctors, physios, Occ Health nurses, Occ health doctors and specialist consultants. In 1998 I was x-rayed, in 1999 I had an MRI.

 

Throughout those two years the Occ Health repeated said "no lifting, light lifting, train him in other duties." I never received any other training.

 

I had my MRI in August and was told I couldn't lift again and I couldn't continue to work there. Since then I have continued in the same role until they sort things out. This was agreed in meetings and I had to sign the minutes (so nothing could be added) so essentially signed I was happy to do that. There are other roles with less lifting in the warehouse but I wasn't given these.

 

The lifting (over the passed two years) has exacerbated the condition. It could be argued that the condition is an underlying one which would never have surfaced if the work wasn't so heavy and the targets so high.

 

Anyway, they offered to sever my contract but said that a cleaning company that is on contract would offer me 40 hours a week. I spoke to the cleaning company and they offered me 20.

 

My work has also said (unofficially) that I will receive a week's earnings for every year I have worked there, so three weeks. Plus my holiday entitlement (which won't be much as I'm having to use it all now as the work is still too much).

 

I had a meeting on Monday. It was the first time I had taken a rep up. It was supposed to be my last day, I was supposed to sign forms terminating my contract and agreeing to their severance pay. But my rep and I found out that, despite them saying "We will look into all vacancies," there were a number of vacancies they hadn't looked into.

 

So they are looking into these now. I have a meeting today when they will let me know if they consider these vacancies to be suitable. One is driving machinery, and despite my only diagnosed limitation being in lifting, one of the manager's has said he doesn't know if I'll be able to drive.

 

I haven't kept copies of my notes (because I'm an idiot, probably) so I am handing a letter in today asking for an additional copy of everything in my file.

 

If I sign something, does that mean I lose my right to a tribunal? If I'm offered another position, can I sue them (for keeping me lifting when I was in pain and for not giving me the retraining OccHealth said I required)? Am I really only entitled to 3 weeks pay?

 

Oh, and the OccHealth told my work the DDA probably applies, and my doctor told me it applies.

 

Thanks for any help.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Bump

[Scribblar]

Thanks for the bump.

 

The meeting has been cancelled until Wed. They are sending me out notes. I could really use some advice on this, please.

[honeybee13]

My gut reaction is that you could have a Personal Injury claim, but I would like another cagger to comment. You could look for a no wiin/no fee lawyer, or do you have legal cover on your household or possibly car insurance? I'm not sure about the car insurance one, though.

 

I would have thought they should be very careful about you being injured at work, then not looking after you, despite what OH said. And you could be covered under the Disability Discrimination Act, [DDA].

 

Any ideas guys?

[Scribblar]

No, sorry if that wasn't clear. i wasn't injured at work, I just have a condition made worse by being at work. I'm thinking of a no win/no fee lawyer.

[yourturntopay]

As i understand it under DDA act they have to offer you support and re training so you can aacept an alterative position in the company.

 

If OH have been saying you are unable to lift and you should be re trained for an alternative position then they are in breech of DDA.

 

Have you raised this matter with your union rep?

[ads2014]

Secondly it sounds like they have not done much in the way of reasonable adjustments either, and if they dismiss without considering redeployment then they will find it hard justifying the reasonableness of their decision to dismiss, especially considering your disability, even more difficult without specific OH Advice.

[Scribblar]

I'm not in a union, sadly.

 

Okay, but this thing they want me to sign, is this standard practice? I have to sign it to terminate my contract and they will give me 3 weeks wages. Does that sound right?

 

After Wednesday, when I find out what is happening, I will defo be trying to see a no win/no fee lawyer.

[Jess68]

On the other note of them not looking at all the alternatives, what does OH say about you taking a driving job, surely if medical think you can do it its not really for work to decide, and is there someone else they have in mind for the job, which could proove discrimination.

 

Im kind of sure but not definate that under DPA you are allowed to see anything kept on file about you, so should be able to see your file.

 

On a personal note i think if the problems going to persist you would be entitled to some DLA so you could think of applying for that as well, and you can still work with it.

[honeybee13]

Hello again. What are they asking you to sign, exactly? I wouldn't be inclined to sign anything while you have a potential grievance.

 

Is it a compromise agreement?

 

And is 3 weeks' pay what you would be entitled to? It doesn't sound very fair to me.

[honeybee13]

Thinking about the 3 weeks' pay they're talking about, what is your notice period? I don't quite understand why they say a week's pay for each year you've worked there - that's the calculation for redundancy.

 

As for your question of giving up the right to a tribunal, it depends what it says in the documents. Some Compromise Agreements seem to want a gagging order attached.

[Scribblar]

Okay, lot of info here.

 

First, I made a mistake earlier when I wrote 98 and 99. It was 08 and 09.

 

Second, my notes haven't arrived yet. I will give BofD and assume they are in post.

 

Third, machinery. 2 guys currently do this job. b/s and e/s, 5 days a week. As I am p/t I could work 3 or 4 of these shifts. OHNurse comes in every Monday (we have a lot of sickies, yet work will not admit job is too hard/heavy. had time and motion in and put the totals up). I don't know if they spoke to her, but they have had 2 Mondays to do so since last meeting and they could have phoned her, too.

 

I suggested this job before Christmas, but got nowhere. My rep has now suggested it (I suggested it to him) and they are considering it.

 

Fourth, office job. They are not happy because they don't think I will be able to type. I have never seen someone in the chill office typing. Ever.

 

Fifth, the forms. I have no idea what these forms are, I have never been told. They have not been discussed in the meetings (so are not on the notes). I was told "you need to come in and sign these forms so we can process everything, and terminate your contract. If you were just quitting it would be a lot easier but because of the way it is we need to be careful of the law" or something like that. The same with the three weeks pay.

 

What is a compromise agreement? If I sign a gagging order can I not go to a tribunal? If they give me forms do I have the right to ask to postpone the meeting so I can take the forms to a lawyer and have him make sure everything is hunky dory?

 

Why are you asking about insurance? I have life and house cover.

[honeybee13]

Hi there. I'm not the one to advise on CAs [Compromise Agreements], sadly, but others on the forum know about them. I just know it's a document drawn up with an agreement between you and your employer, saying what the financial deal is and what their requirements are for giving you the money.

 

Someone else on the forum signed to say he would not discuss the agreement with anyone except his family, or go to the press. Deathbycrayons husband went through that kind of stuff.

 

If it's a compromise agreement, they have to pay an independent solicitor to check the document and advise you. If they're forms, then I don't know what they might be.

 

I don't think they can pressurise you to sign anything; we're all entitled to time to think.

 

Does that help at all? If not, post again and I'll have another go.

 

About the insurance, a lot of house policies include legal cover. If you have it, you could get your own legal advice.

[Scribblar]

But surely a CA would entail a lot more cash than three weeks pay?

[honeybee13]

Well, I would hope so. They haven't shown you or told you what they want you to sign?

[Scribblar]

I've had a long, drawn out and horrible day, and my managers were getting quite bitchy towards the end of it. I got copies of my notes, I will post again after reading them over.

 

I have a meeting tomorrow, they are terminating my contract.

 

I have 7 days to appeal.

 

The money they are offering is pay in lieu of notice.

 

The thing they want me to sign, in my manager's words: "It's just a letter, just saying we think the best thing is for you to leave your employment and that you agree. You don't have to sign it, but if you don't we WILL terminate your contract anyway. It just looks better for future employers if you do sign it."

 

They said they spoke to the cleaner's company and I can definitely start on Monday. In my notes they wrote "potentially starting on Monday" because if they said I definitely had the job it would show favouritism. But my rep thinks it seems like a veiled threat, sign it or else.

 

Also, at one point she wasn't taking notes, and I said to her about it, and she got very bitchy with me.

Anyway, I will read my notes and post more later.

[mariefab]

If they are going to terminate your employment whether you sign their 'letter' or not, there's no benefit for you in signing it.

Do you have this letter or did they want you to sign it there and then.

It could be interpreted as a resignation. I wouldn't sign it.

 

"It just looks better for future employers if you do sign it."

Why? Are they going to send out copies with references.

 

They said they spoke to the cleaner's company and I can definitely start on Monday. In my notes they wrote "potentially starting on Monday" because if they said I definitely had the job it would show favouritism.

 

From your opening post...

Anyway, they offered to sever my contract but said that a cleaning company that is on contract would offer me 40 hours a week. I spoke to the cleaning company and they offered me 20.

It doesn't appear that they have enough influence with the cleaning company to make you any reliable promises.

[Scribblar]

"It just looks better for future employers if you do sign it."

Why? Are they going to send out copies with references.

 

Thanks, I needed that laugh.

 

Okay, do you guys think I might have a legal case against them for making my wrist worse. Here's a summary of my notes:

 

 

• Nov 07, rtw after sick leave, ancillary duties, no lifting
  
• Jan 08, OHN recommends extending duties to 4 HOURS of lifting
  
• Jan 08 (2nd meeting) OHN notes lifting has been extended to approx 5 hrs, resulting in pain, discomfort.
  
• March 08, OHN notes should be re-trained as rotation essential
  
• April 08, wrist gaining in strength, possible sign-off in 4 weeks
  
• May 08, previous recommendations not followed, progress hindered
  
• June 08, OHN notes must be rotated between heavy/light loads
  
• June 08 (2nd meeting) OHN notes struggled with heavy loads, no rotation at all
  
• Oct 08, OHN notes retraining would be helpful
  
• Dec 08, OHN notes problems re: training
  
• Dec 08 (2nd meeting), OHN notes I'm having difficulty communicating with manager re: retraining
  
• Feb 09, OHN notes still not been re-trained
  
• April 09, OHD notes DDA probably applies
  
• May 09, OHN notes still on light duties
  
• June 09, OHN would support possible shift change as more job rotation on early
  
• Oct 09, OHN notes plans to retrain me in other duties
  
• Nov 09, specialist recommends job unsuitable.
  

If they had retrained me 2 years ago I might not be at the stage I'm at now.

[mariefab]

I'm afraid I don't know.

I guess it wouldn't do any harm to give them that list tomorrow.

You might also want to take a copy of your driving licence (to show that you are eligible/trainable for the driving machinery job).

 

Please remember though at tomorrows meeting you don't have to sign ANYTHING.

[Scribblar]

I don't have a driver's licence. The machine is like a LLOP, an internal electronic warehouse vehicle, no licence is needed. They are saying it is too heavy anyway.

[mariefab]

OK.

If you are aware of any vacancies that would be suitable for you; you could ask for an explanation of why these haven't been offered to you.

 

I am very suspicious of this document that they want you to sign.

There is no need for anyone to sign anything when they are being dismissed/terminated.

I think that they could be trying to pull a fast one here in an effort to get you to effectively sign away some of your employment rights.

If this document is above board then they would be happy for you to take it away to get advice on it before signing.

[Scribblar]

Aah, no, I won't be able to take it away. I was offered a job through my employer with the cleaning company. Today I was told the job had been offered to someone else. I asked if the someone else had been offered a 40 hour job as I was made aware that there was two 20 hour jobs. They didn't know.

 

I then asked how this job could have been offered to someone else when it was already offered to me. They said they had no control over this company's recruitment policies, though they appreciated I should have been made aware of any deadline.

 

We recessed, and I spoke to some cleaners who told me they had not seen/heard of anyone being interviewed for this position. We reconvened, and I was offered the position starting on Monday. It was implied if I didn't accept/tried to postpone this position would no longer be available.

 

My rep thinks they are calling my bluff.

 

So screw them. The way they said certain things (in the notes my employment potentially starts on Monday, not signing could have a negative impact on future employers) makes it look like I won't get the job if I don't sign the notes.

 

I've been looking over other threads here. So many people are being screwed over. I notice it is often by small businesses. But I work for one of the biggest employers in the UK, and they are massive internationally as well; I expected better treatment from them.

 

I must be naive.

[mariefab]

So, first they have no control over this company's recruitment policies; then you can 'potentially' start on Monday if you just sign this innocent little piece of paper.

They're taking the....I mean, they must be kidding surely.

 

Sadly, unscrupulous employers come in all shapes and sizes.

[Scribblar]

First thing this morning I went to see a lawyer. I have an appointment for 1st Feb. I then went to see CAB and discussed potential grievances with them. I then had a meeting with Remploy, a govt. agency that helps disabled people get into work/training and things.

 

CAB and Remploy both think I may have a case, but I need to see my lawyer.

 

I then had a meeting with my work. I recorded this meeting on my mobile (I read this idea on here). Good job I did because they did not provide me with a copy of notes, or any of the other things I asked for; copy of contract, employee's handbook, or the minutes for a meeting I'd had with a line manager (where I'm certain we discussed training).

 

The photocopier is broken. They wanted to post them to me. As I have still not received a copy of the notes they posted last week, I said I would come in osn Monday to pick them up. (I start the cleaning job on Monday).

 

They didn't ask me to sign as they only do so when the person who is leaving agrees leaving would be for the best.

 

I then had a meeting with CAB, and they drafted an appeal. They said asking for a meeting to discuss with my employers is the first step to launching a grievance.

 

I am planning to apply for legal aid.

[Jess68]

Good for you, good luck with it.

 

Just one thought, did u specify you were recording the meeting as there are certain issues concerning recording people without there knowledge. Dont want it to cause an issue down the line. Maybe someone can clarify the actual regulations around this.