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Mint - Is this agreement enforceable?


Surfer01
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As we had a small problem due o both of us on SSP, I pushed my Mint card to the limit but did not exceed the limit. There was a margin of about £20- £30 on it, however at the end of the month they had added the interest which then put the card over the limit and for the pleasure of doing this they penalised me £12. This seems like daylight robbery, but is this ethical?

Either way I have now gone through all my statements from day one and found that I have incured charges of about £130 which I am now going to claim back. Although banks can close accounts if they have to refund charges, I doubt that credit card suppliers can do this. Can someone please enlighten me on this also? Thanks.

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  • 10 months later...

In April 2004 I took out a MINT credit card and at the same time as we could afford it then I agreed to Card Protection. In May 2004 my card was debited for the amount of £35.

About a year later on receiving notification of a pending charge I phoned in and cancelled the policy and thought that was the end of it. No further deductions wee made in 2005 and 2006. In May 2007 quite unexpectedly my card was debited for £70 causing me to go well over my limit and incurring a £12 penalty charge. I contacted the MINT and inquired about the identity of the organisation that had done the debit and it turned out to be CPP or Card Protection Plan.

I contracted CCP and inquired why they had resurrected a closed account. They then informed me that the account was not closed and that they had sent a letter along the lines of "if you do not respond we shall assume that you are satisfied with our porposals to change "x" and debit your account accordingly".

Admittedly we had moved house in Feb 2006 but I never notified them of my change of address because I assumed that there was no reason as there was no account. In my eyes I think that they cannot make assumptions although they state it was in the T & Cs that they sent with the letter. Our mail was forwarded on for nearly a year to catch something like this but to get done 15 months after moving, is not on.

I need some advice on what I can throw at them to recover my £70 plus the penalty fee of £12 and interest.

What is even more annoying is that due to a few late payments recently MINT never renewed my card at the end of May 2007 and although I do not have a problem with this as I would like to pay it up and get rid of the card, it is extremely annoying to get debited for something you do not have.

Can any one advise on any consumer regulations that I can throw at CCP in order to get them to address the issue quickly as my repayment to MINT for this month has almost doubled because of this totally unexpected deduction never mind the interest. Normally this would not have been an issue but the wife has been off work for a few months and our monthly income dropped drastically. First thing comes to mind is unfair T & Cs regaridng automatically assume, nothing heard for 3 years then whammo etc. As I spent a long time on the phone with them on an 080 number should I just go straight it with a LBA and a covering letter. Please advise soonest. Thanks.

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Whilst what they say is reasonable, if you cancelled it and they didn't take the payment for that year, I assume when they DID it was for the 'missing' year? If so, they're studded and you can insist the CC company do a chargeback. The arrogance of CPP amazes me, but in ANY continuous mandate cancellations, you should always back it up in writing and keep a copy. At the moment there is only your word they cancelled - although helped by their NOT taking it on the usual date. Ask - and if CPP say you hadn't cancelled was the usual fee not taken until a doubler the following year.

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Thanks Buzby, but was actually over 2 years before they made a deduction. If they had deducted the account in May 2005 or even May 2006 I would have picked it up. Is there any sort of regulation I could throw at these guys as they have put me in a bad light with MINT although I no longer have a card with MINT and it is just as we are starting to come right and get our finances back into order.

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The regulations on continuous debits (of a credit card) are stacked in favour of the originator (CPP in this case). However, if you terminated the arrangement in May 2004, and the ceased using the card (cancelled/closed?) prior to May 2006 - they have the right to take payment (so it is not a fraud issue), their cavalier attitude of writing and taking - which is to their benefit, than asking first and seeking permission puts you in a stronger position. After X months, how would they know you hadn't moved? It's illogical.

 

Your defence is that you cancelled, and they stopped charging. Sending a letter saying they're going to restart to an address you're no longer at is not an excuse. You could easily send them an LBA for the full amount you require to settle the matter, giving 28 days for the amount to be credited to Mint, or you'll go the whole way.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sent the preliminary and got the standard reply that they will refund the difference. Now sending the LBAfor the full amount even though it is only £292 but it is my money. Due to shortage of funds maybe I should use the FOS and then if no luck, court action.

As they never renewed my card I am quite happy to pay it up over time and get rid of it as we are trying to clear all our debts within the next 3 years.

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I agree that it is quicker but as money is in short supply we will try the FOS in the first instance. Problem is if I lash out on court fees then I may get into arrears, something we are desperately trying to avoid as our credit histroy is clean at present. Thanks for the advice as it is really appreciated.

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  • 4 weeks later...

In 2004 I agreed to Card protection with a company called CCP. The cost was £35 which was for 3 years. I actually thought it was for 1 year. Sometime in 2005, several months later, I received a mail shot from them advising that the premium would be increased. I phoned in and told them that when the current protection finished I did not want to renew and left it at that and never heard from them again.

In May 2007 my account was debited for £70, double the amount I had originally paid. This caused me to exceed the limit on my card and I was penalised £12 by MINT in June. In addition to this because of the deduction my minimum payment shot up by about £35 to £115 instead of £80 . As a result I was late in paying the additional amount of £35 as I had budgeted to pay £80 the minimum amount. The following month in July I incurred another two penalty charges, one for still being over my limit due to additional interest and the other the late payment penalty.

In the meantime I had written a letter to CCP but it took them nearly a month before refunding the money back into my account. This was done on 28th July but they did nto advsie me about thsi until last week and only becasue sent an LBA.

I asked them to demonstrate a contract where I gave them permission to debit my account on a recurring basis every three years. It is highly unlikely I would have agreed to a recurring debit which only happens every three years. They were unable to produce this but sent me their T & Cs which state that they can do this should they not hear from one when they send out their 3 yearly notification that they are going to debit your account. As we had moved and had moved nearly 16 months previous to them sedning thsi notification I think that this is a very unfair condition.

I want to claim back 3 x £12 charges, cost of a long phone call to an 0870 number plus the additional interest from them. Intially this included the £70 as they were dragging their feet. I sent them a preliminary letter followed by a LBA. They replied that they were happy to refund the £70 but were not going to refund the penalty charges or the additional interest.

MINT have been advised that there are to be no more debits off the card and the card is closed at present except for paying in purposes. We were intending to start paying off the card to shut it down but as we work on a very tight budget to avoid any credit issues but this really threw a spanner in the works as it was totally unexpected and has delayed us knocking off anything on the card.

Do you think I stand any chance of getting the charges, interest and cost of phone call out of these leeches? This totals at around about £42. I know it is not a great deal but it is the principal as that money should be in my pocket.

I think the "automatically debiting your card" if they do not hear from you is an unfair term and perhaps a good basis for small claims court. Debits that are 3 years apart are a bit off side as too many things can happen in that space of time.

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I used to work for ******* Card Services and part of our job was to offer Card Protection it was exactly the same as CPP, as far as i was aware you have to be offered it again after it runs out, so basically you would get a warning on your system and the next time you called in we could give the customer an opportunity to renew there policy not only the price increase has to be notified to the customer well in advance......All you need to do is contact the card provider by phone and ask for the charges to be refunded as it wasnt your fault that they were there in the first place, there shouldnt be any problems in them giving them back they will probably say they will do it as a gesture of good will but thats just there way of not admitting its there fault!

Nationwide Won - £2000 :D

Barclay Card - Hearing Date 14/08/07 :???:

Capital One - N1 Filed ;)

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CPP's entire business model is based on ongoing continuous debits from a credit card. They even take payments from cards that have been CLOSED by their owners. I can guarantee that you will have agreed to the ongoing mandate, it is the foundation stone of their charging structure, but it will not be easily noticed. They do not have a good track record in making goodwill payments over and above their own debits.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi surfero1,

 

I have read through you thread, and am aware that it was a few months ago.

 

But iam in a similar postion now. So seek advise.

 

I took out a Capital one credit card them i can't remember but looking back through statement seems that i was charged a card protection by another company for £39.00.

 

Then recently they have charged me again. I phoned them to discover that they charge every three years and they sent me a letter similar to yours my previous address.

 

Like you i cancelled the card protection in 2004. And when i asked for my cash for the new charge back they say that they can not because the 30 day period has lapsed. By 3 or 5 days, because the satement arriving after the 30 day period had lapsed.

 

They say they will investigate and get back to me.

 

Can you advise me how you got on and what letters you used.

 

I hope you was sucessful.

 

Also like you i checked my mail at old address ever since we moved because it is only around the corner to present address and we keep in touch with the new owners of the old house. And i never received the renewal letter.

 

Kind regards

 

Chad

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As per Buzby I wrote them a preliminary letyter and sent it by recorded mail but got no answer. I then sent a LBA and they replied quite promptly and I go a refund of the charge however not additional interest that I accummalated or the £12 exceeding my overdraft fee. I have come to the conclusion that this Card protection is all a big con. good luck with your refund but i think you will need to push them hard.

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  • 2 months later...

I did a claim on my credit card for charges and got paid back the charges less £12 on each charge. This was back in May this year. Although I cannot use my card any more, I got zapped by an unexpected payment protection on the card. They had sent a letter to my old address 3 years after taking out the original insurance and when I did not respond they deducted it from my card. This resulted in a number of extra charges at £12 a shot until the company refunded methe payment protection.

Unfortunately not only did I accummalate several £12 charges but also additional interest as I was over my limit. I eventually caught up with it and was able to pay just over the minimum at the beginning of last month although the payment was only due on the 21st of the month.

Although I paid the minimum amount plus a few pounds today I received a letter from MINT stating that I was over my limit again and another £12 charge was slapped on. It turns out that although I had paid well in advance and over the minimum amount, when they totted it up with interest, I went over the limit again. I seem to be going around in circles.

I am trying to pay off the card, but they seem determine to keep hitting me with charges.

Surely it is unfair to advise a person to pay the minimum amount but by paying the minimum amount they will still incur further charges. Surely to pay the minimum amount would be an amount that would prevent you incurring any further charges. Basicaslly what they are saying is pay the minimum amount plus the accummalated interest to prevent aditional charges. Surely thsi is a misleading practice?

Seems the only way forward is trying to pay almost double the amount to avoid any more charges and we can hardly afford to do this at this point in our lives. I surmise that since May 2007 I have incurred charges of £24 per month up to last month. If it were not for these charges I would have reduced the amount owing by a few bob.

Please advise as we are getting desperate.

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Claim the lot back as £12 is merely what the OFT has stated that it is the limit in which they would not take action against the credit card provider, in this case RBS. You need to start the process including all the fees since the last settlement.

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  • 1 year later...

I sent MINT the following letter on 27/11/08, but I have heard nothing from them;

 

Customer Care Manager

Mint Cards

PO Box 5747

Southend on Sea

SS1 9AJ

Dear Sir/Madam

 

With reference to the above agreement, I would be grateful if you could send me a copy of this credit agreement. I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974(section 77-99) I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement on request. I enclose payment of £1 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act.

 

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the agreement under these sections of the act.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

Is the above correct or should I have said a true copy and then also mentioned 12 days etc? Can any one advise what I should be doing next? The account is not in default and payments are up to date.

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Next one to send...

 

Send by recorded....and edit as required

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

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  • 3 weeks later...

The reply letter from RBS (MINT) went along these lines;

 

 

Dear Mr Surfer01,

 

I confirm receipt of your letter of the 16th December and previous request letter received on 2 December 2008.

 

Our response to a request under the Consumer Credit Act s78 stipulates that we should respond within 12 working days. However there is an additional deadline of a further month for us to send our response and our response will be sent accordingly wihin these timescales. (Can someone clarify this regarding them respoding with any letter and the timescale?)

 

I therefore respectively request you refrain from sending such letters, as a response will be sent by 17 January 2009. (As they received the original letter on 2nd December I was under the impression that it would be a month from that date???)

 

All further 'dispute' and 'chaser' letters received from you whereby we have yet to send our response in the time allowed (as advised above) will not be acknowledged by us.

 

We do not consider any account to be in dispute and your indebtedness on the account remains due and payable.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Old bag at RBS

 

I sent them a CCa request which they received on 2nd Decmerb as admitted by them. When I never received the CCA or a reply to this request I then sent a letter to the Data Controller at RBS as MINT is part of the organisation. The letter was based on what 42man has written above. The latter they received on the 16th December as admitted by them. They have now taken the date for their month as from the date of my second letter and not the first.

 

Can they do this? If not, they have now committed an offence but to whom do I report it?

 

Can we please have some comments on the above letter from RBS (MINT).

 

What is my liability to MINT now?

 

Can I stop paying them or can I pay a lower amount without incurring any charges or additional interest.

 

Am I still liable for all charges and interest on the account going back to day one or can I claim these back?

 

I do not have any arrears with them or any other company however I have been made redundant and have to rein in all my outgoings.

Thanks.

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