Balliff Help - Multiple charges and levy fees

[frosty2010]

Hi

 

Help, i need to understand how much i can be charged in fees, and what exactly is a levy.

 

I have 3 years of outstanding council tax with Rossendales, i have been paying £150 each month, i am now back tracking and checking all fees, and as i had more than one issued, i have been charged seperatley for first visits, second visits, and on each a levy fee. I have never spoken to a balliff or signed any document, so what is this levy, they have never entered my home.

 

I have also been charged twice for vans calling?

 

i am paying and do have an agreement, i am now looking at the detail with the council, as i feel it is unfair charges.

 

Can they keep charging for each seperate one, to the best of my knowledge, they were all issued at the same time, allthough i do have lots of different letters and balliff names at the bottom of them?

 

I have repaid over £2000, in the last 14 months, and now feel in a position to challenge the charges

 

Can anyone help

 

Thanks

 

Susan

[ploddertom]

Hi

 

Help, i need to understand how much i can be charged in fees, and what exactly is a levy.

 

I have 3 years of outstanding council tax with Rossendales, i have been paying £150 each month, i am now back tracking and checking all fees, and as i had more than one issued, i have been charged seperatley for first visits, second visits, and on each a levy fee. I have never spoken to a balliff or signed any document, so what is this levy, they have never entered my home.

 

I have also been charged twice for vans calling?

 

i am paying and do have an agreement, i am now looking at the detail with the council, as i feel it is unfair charges.

 

Can they keep charging for each seperate one, to the best of my knowledge, they were all issued at the same time, allthough i do have lots of different letters and balliff names at the bottom of them?

 

I have repaid over £2000, in the last 14 months, and now feel in a position to challenge the charges

 

Can anyone help

 

Thanks

 

Susan

 

WOW

 

Someone appears to having plenty of holidays with you paying for them.

 

Do you know how much each Liability was for? If not get on to the Council to find out, you also need to know how much is outstanding on each one.

 

Have you asked the Bailiff Company for a statement of your account so you can see what charges have been allocated and when. This is not a request for personal data under the Data Protection Act as a Subject Access Request - there is no need to pay the £10 they may demand - they are obliged to give you this information on request.

 

You can pay the Council online or by automated phone if they have one. May upset the Bailiff but so what.

 

Start with these first and then we can go on to recover any excess charges.

 

PT

[frosty2010]

I was planning to ring the council tomorrow, as i have sat all night looking at this, i will then ring and find out the actual charges, what i really need to know is can they charge a first and second visit on multiple liabilities, it would be good to know

 

I also need to know if they should have charge levy fees, as each one is a different amount, on what i have been given from the council, vary from £37, £54 and the other £62?

 

And what about van charges two of these at £110?

 

It would be good to have this when i talk to the council?

 

I really need the council to taike back the debt.

 

I have left it a while as i have in the last year lost my Mam and also my Father in Law both to Cancer, and it has been really tough as they both needed care, so this has been at the back of my priority, i am now out of Christmas and feel okay to now get into this and sort it once and for all

 

Any help woulod be great, i am ringing the council tomorrow anyway, i am at work tomorrow, so always find it hard to have a private conversation.

 

Thanks nfor your help, so far

[hallowitch]

also ask the council for the date(s) the liability orders were passed to the bailiffs

 

 

 

bailiffs cant charge multiple fees

 

 

Detailed Assessment Judgement of Throssell v Leeds City Council where the District Judge ruled as follows:

“Turning to the taxation it seems to me that notwithstanding the fact that there were three liability orders but one visit was made by one bailiff and the maximum that the Council’s reasonable charges can be is the result of applying the formula contained in Schedule 5 paragraph 2 (1) (b) of the Regulations”

[jimbo45]

Hi there

it's always a bit harder if you've dealt with the Bailiff's -- however if you have NEVER LET THEM IN

then for unpaid Council Tax you can only be charged 24.50 for first and 18.00 GBP for a second visit. No "Van Fees" etc are allowed if they haven't been able to levy anything.

 

Rossendales are ABSOLUTE **** -- they are my real target this year.

 

Complain also about "Illegal Fees" to the Council and ask what the Council's policy is on ensuring that their "Contractors" i.e Rossies comply 100% within the law on Council Tax collection.

 

Eventually also the Council will have to take the debt back and provided you have offered something no Court will send you to prison - especially if you are being threatened with illegal fees.

 

It's time in 2010 we got this really FEUDAL and UNFAIR tax collection system stopped. If everybody complained about Unfair fees and refused to deal with some of these Bailiff companies the whole stinking system would grind to a halt -- and good riddance too.

 

Cheers

jimbo

[ploddertom]

 

I also need to know if they should have charge levy fees, as each one is a different amount, on what i have been given from the council, vary from £37, £54 and the other £62?

 

 

Do you know what they have levied on? If so posy the goods up on here as the chances are they will have some exempt goods on them + they ca't levy on the same goods twice or more.

 

I assume the Van Fees are to do with the levy(s) but if they've cocked up then they can't charge them.

 

PT

[tomtubby]

also ask the council for the date(s) the liability orders were passed to the bailiffs

 

 

 

bailiffs cant charge multiple fees

 

 

Detailed Assessment Judgement of Throssell v Leeds City Council where the District Judge ruled as follows:

“Turning to the taxation it seems to me that notwithstanding the fact that there were three liability orders but one visit was made by one bailiff and the maximum that the Council’s reasonable charges can be is the result of applying the formula contained in Schedule 5 paragraph 2 (1) (b) of the Regulations”

 

Hallowitch.....Excellent advice.

 

 

Now that you are checking your paperwork it is important that you establish WHAT the bailiff has levied upon. The same goods can only be levied upon ONCE ....

 

Did the bailiff levy upon goods on the first or second visit?

A bailiff can charge a fee of £24.50 for "attending to levy" (where no levy was made). In other words he can charge for this wasted visit.

 

HOWEVER...and this is important.....a bailiff CANNOT charge a levy fee AND an "attending to levy" ( where no levy was made AT THE SAME VISIT. So many bailiffs are doing this!!

 

A van fee can ONLY be charged FOLLOWING a levy upon goods. Again this fee cannot be charged at the same visit when the bailiff levied upon the goods.

 

This is because for council tax enforcement...the purpose of the visit is to "levy upon goods" and is NOT to REMOVE goods.

 

If a van fee has been applied this would indicate that you have not kept to the payment arrangement made with the bailiff.

 

But again....ONLY ONE VAN ATTENDANCE CAN BE APPLIED !!!

 

PS: The vast majority of bailiff contracts between councils and bailiff companies have a provision that only one visit fee, one levy fee and one "attending to remove" fee can be applied when enforcing "multiple liability orders".

 

The same applies for parking charge notices.

[Barbarawoo]

Hallowitch.....Excellent advice.

 

If a van fee has been applied this would indicate that you have not kept to the payment arrangement made with the bailiff.

 

Sorry don't want to side track from the poster but was wondering on the above comment, so if the the agrreement is broken you can be charged van fees if levy had been made, can you be charged van fees if agreement had been broken but no levy done?

[hallowitch]

can you be charged van fees if agreement had been broken but no levy done?

 

NO the bailiff must have a levy before he can charge a van fee

[tomtubby]

Sorry don't want to side track from the poster but was wondering on the above comment, so if the the agrreement is broken you can be charged van fees if levy had been made, can you be charged van fees if agreement had been broken but no levy done?

 

A valid PREVIOUS levy is a requirement of a van charge. There is no provision in the statutory fee scale as laid down by Parliament for a van fee. What the regulations provide is an "attending to remove fee".

 

If a bailiff levies upon goods ( which will normally involve a Walking Possession if he has gained entry into your home or a seizure on a motor car outside) then if you default on any agreed payment arrangement, the bailiff can then RETURN to your home to REMOVE the goods listed on the WP. It is at this time that he can apply an "attending to remove" fee !!

 

Complicated I know....and that is the way the bailiff would prefer for it to be !!!

[seanamarts]

 

Complicated I know....and that is the way the bailiff would prefer for it to be !!!

Its so complicated even the bailiffs dont even know, they just make it up as they go along:p:rolleyes:

[Barbarawoo]

Bailiff left a Seizure & Removal Notice with added fees of £265.50 written in pen with no breakdown, had an email from company after I requested them to explain the fees thay said this:

 

Accordingly, fees are added to the account in readiness for the Bailiff to levy. If a levy is not effected, they are deleted by the Office

 

Can they add fees before they accualy do the work or atempt to gain entry? And if they did not do the work why botther leaving the letter?

[ploddertom]

And if they did not do the work why botther leaving the letter?

 

Intimidation!

 

PT

[frosty2010]

Hi

 

Thanks for the advise so far, i have spoken to the council and found out the following

 

In total 4 liability orders were issued to Rossendales, one for 91.75, the secon for 65.43, the third for £288.38 and the last one for £1338.28. The council issued them all in July 2008, but they were issued on different dates, 17 July, 21 July, 22 July and 27 July.

 

The council have told me that because they are issued them seperatley then i can be charged for each one so therefore 4 x first visit, 4 x second visit, 4 levy fees and 4 van fees, if needed.

 

All liabiltys were posted through the door by one balliff (Mr Mallon), but then a week later i got 3 through the door again, from a different Baliff Mr Hill)

 

I have never signed or allowed a Baliff into my home, but they have raised levys, i am not sure on what? The councilo have told me that they are allowed to do this.

 

I ahve also been charged Van fees twice, although i have never seen a van.

 

I have for the first amount 91.75, been charge £163.75 so in total paid 255.50?

 

I have askd the council to take back the debt and they have told me that there is no way they can do this, the only way is if a debt had been passed to the Balliffs incorrectly?

 

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[frosty2010]

I have just re read the replies above and there was also a Walking Possession order, this might have been for a car we had on the drive when they visited, however, the sad thing about this is the car was on finance and at the time waiting to be repossed by the company

 

As you can see i have had a few bad years

 

i am now trying to get back on track and turn everything around, which is why i am now trying to inveswtigate and make sense of everything i have paperwork wise, i have just been keeping everything, and to be honest i am really lost by it all, frustrated, and feel that the Baliffs have really taekn me for a ride?

 

Help

[hallowitch]

In total 4 liability orders were issued to Rossendales, one for 91.75, the second for 65.43, the third for £288.38 and the last one for £1338.28. The council issued them all in July 2008, but they were issued on different dates, 17 July, 21 July, 22 July and 27 July.

 

The council have told me that because they are issued them separately then i can be charged for each one so therefore 4 x first visit, 4 x second visit, 4 levy fees and 4 van fees, if needed.

 

your council are wrong

i will try to explain what i mean

1st liability order 17th

if the bailiff 1st visit was the 18th & second was 19th (thats OK)

2nd liability order 21st

1st visit 22nd 2nd visit 23 rd (thats OK )

3rd liability order 22nd

1st visit fee 23rd 2nd visit 24th then that would be wrong because the bailiff cant charge a 1st & 2nd visit fee on the same day even if it is for 2 different accounts

 

if the bailiffs have not been in your house then as you say they must have levied on the car

 

Any levy must be on a notice of seizure of goods & inventory and must be given to you at the time of the levy or put through your letterbox if you are not at home

A bailiff cannot levy the same goods more than once

goods on HP or finance cant be levied

[frosty2010]

so are you saying they can charge me for each seperate liabilty order?

 

There was a copy of something put through my door ref the car?

 

But nothing else?

 

The council have told me a baliff can levy even if he does not get in the house, i have not got any further documentation at all, only the one for the car, and as i said it was on finance?

 

What about the different amounts they have charge, for the levy's how do they get the figure?

 

Thanks

[ploddertom]

You definitely need a statement of your account from the Bailiff Company - this will tell you what you have been charged and when. When you spoke to the Council did you think to ask how much is still outstanding on each LO.

 

PT

[twonames]

In total 4 liability orders were issued to Rossendales, one for 91.75, the second for 65.43, the third for £288.38 and the last one for £1338.28. The council issued them all in July 2008, but they were issued on different dates, 17 July, 21 July, 22 July and 27 July.

 

The council have told me that because they are issued them separately then i can be charged for each one so therefore 4 x first visit, 4 x second visit, 4 levy fees and 4 van fees, if needed.

 

your council are wrong

i will try to explain what i mean

1st liability order 17th

if the bailiff 1st visit was the 18th & second was 19th (thats OK)

2nd liability order 21st

1st visit 22nd 2nd visit 23 rd (thats OK )

3rd liability order 22nd

1st visit fee 23rd 2nd visit 24th then that would be wrong because the bailiff cant charge a 1st & 2nd visit fee on the same day even if it is for 2 different accounts

 

if the bailiffs have not been in your house then as you say they must have levied on the car

 

Any levy must be on a notice of seizure of goods & inventory and must be given to you at the time of the levy or put through your letterbox if you are not at home

A bailiff cannot levy the same goods more than once

goods on HP or finance cant be levied

 

 

"A bailiff cannot levy the same goods more than once"

 

good point!

 

Most councils will allow two van fees to be charged on cases, subject to default on payment arrangements.

[frosty2010]

Yes, but i have left the detail at work, i am going to ask for a statement from the Baliff.

 

Do you know why there are different levy charges?

 

why wont the council take the debt back?

 

I have not missed a payment, i pay on time and have paid ove £2,000 in the last 14 months?

 

heading to bed now as up for work in the morning, thankis for your help so far?

 

it is hard getting your head around all of this

 

thanks

[hallowitch]

so are you saying they can charge me for each separate liability order?

no

Do you know why there are different levy charges?

 

levy charges are worked out on the amount of the liability order

one for 91.75

this would incur a fee of

walking possession fee £12

levy fee £24.50

the second for 65.43,

same as above

the third for £288.38

walking possession fee £12

levy fee £33

haven't done the last one it will take me about 10 min to look it up so i thought i would leave it for now

[hallowitch]

Most councils will allow two van fees to be charged on cases, subject to default on payment arrangement

 

the council can allow what it wants but they don't set the charges

legislation does that

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 (amended)

state that on a second visit that incurs a van fee goods must be removed

therefore they can only charge one van fee without removing goods