Drydens "NOTICE OF INTENDED CIVIL RECOVERY"

[polomint73]

Hi,

 

I came across this forum whilst searching for drydens lawyers and wondered if anybody would be able to offer me any advice.

 

I went to Asda to do my shopping and used the self checkout as usual, I had problems with the card machine so I had to rescan all of my items through another till. As I was leaving the store I was pulled to one side by a security guard who asked to look through my shopping. There was a tube of toothpaste that I hadn't paid for, i am not sure how this managed to go unscanned so I apologized profusely and offered to pay for the item or give it back. The guard said that even though he believed it was an honest mistake I would be banned from the store for 6 months. I gave him my name and address and the police weren't called. Needless to say I was mortified and humiliated and left the store feeling like a criminal.

 

Today I received a letter from Drydens entitled "NOTICE OF INTENDED CIVIL RECOVERY" demanding that I pay £150 within 7 days or be taken to court. The charge is for Security costs. I really can't afford to pay this amount within 7 days.

 

I have never had a criminal record and I have never been taken to court. Should I just try to pay it and keep quiet?

 

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

Regards

 

I am really intimidated by this letter and am unsure what to do next

[reallymadwoman]

It is designed to intimidate you, so don't be. You cannot get a criminal record from this (the word Civil in the title is a give away, but since their letter obviously sent you into a panic, as it was intended to do, you are more than forgiven for missing it) and the chances of you being taken to court are more or less zero, especially now you've asked for help.

 

I'm not really up to speed on these sort of notices, but I do know from reading other threads that they can, and should, be challenged. Someone who does know what to do will give advice soon.

 

Whilst you're waiting, take a nice deep breath, remind yourself that you've nearly done what the letter wanted you to (panic, and pay them immediately) but you've stopped yourself just in time. Then have a look through some of the other threads and see what other people have done.

 

If you're not feeling much more confident and ready to take on the world by the time you get to the end of the second one, I'd be very surprised.

[polomint73]

Thank you very much for your support and advice. I have spent thousands of pounds in this store so this treatment feels unjust.

 

I was just so surprised to receive this letter, especially as the security guard beleived that it was an honest mistake.

 

What I don't want to do is get a CCJ (I have an unblemished credit history) but at the same time don't want to be bullied.

 

All this over a tube of toothpaste!

[comebackjimmy]

Hi

 

You have my deepest sympathy for this unfortunate situation.

 

You say you had a problem with a card machine. Did it produce a transaction declined notice, and if so did you keep it?

 

That document could help to verify your story. In correspondence, keep the original and send photocopies.

 

If you attempted a transaction which failed it is possible, depending upon the nature of the failure, that your card issuer would have a record of the attempted payment. You could consider asking them for a copy of their log of this attempted payment.

 

Were there any witnesses to the problem? Were other people struggling with the same machine? You could consider putting an (anonymous) advertisement in the paper asking for people who use that branch if they have had similar problems).

 

Other than that my initial thoughts are that as the Police were not called it would not appear to be a criminal matter.

 

Drydens are therefore making a civil case against you for their security guard costs so whatever the outcome you will not have a criminal record so do not worry about that.

 

What is happening is that they are trying to make you pay for supposed costs of the security. What costs are they? You could write back and ask them to fully itemise their costs. If you think about it £150 is just too nice and round a figure. A genuine claim would be an odd number made up as a result of for example the guards time and wages for 90 minutes, cost of the letter, etc and would come out to some odd number like £37.45 or £94.50

 

I would think it possible to challenge your liability for their costs and quite likely the actual amount of the costs and I would hope and expect other more experienced CAGers will be here shortly to advise you.

 

As an initial reply I would write as follows:

 

Further to your letter of DATE I deny any liability for your claim.

 

If you feel you have a genuine claim then please provide an accurate breakdown of the elements making up the claim total of £150.

 

Also please advise under what points of law/acts of parliament you are bringing your claim.

 

Also please provide a full explanation of the event or events leading to your claim.

 

Yours sincerely

 

The above will at least stall them and make them do some work, and buy you some time.

 

A couple of questions:

 

1. The guard said you would be banned for six months. Have you had a letter or been given a written notice to that effect?

 

2. What is his name? What firm does he work for?

 

3. During the course of your "Arrest" did you sign anything? Have you got a copy of what you signed? If not contact them and demand a copy.

 

In short, you are not currently on track for a Criminal Record, don't panic and don't be intimidated. These people are bullies.

 

It is possible, but by no means certain, that you are now in a debt collection cycle and if you fail to reply to them rather than take civil court proceedings they may start to worry you with phone calls. In this case never speak to them on the phone. All communications, if any, should be in writing.

 

Good luck.

[reallymadwoman]

All this over a tube of toothpaste!

 

Exactly. Have a read as I suggested. There is no way you will end up with a CCJ for this unless you are both extremely unlucky (and Drydens decide you're a pushover) and so lazy you don't open your post or do anything with it, which you're obviously not.

 

Even if Drydens were stupid enough to try taking you to court, to get a CCJ you would either have to ignore the claim, forget to enter a defence or forget to turn up. In fact, if you got an 'on the ball' judge, you might not even have to turn up.

 

Also remember that taking someone to court costs money. Solicitors commonly charge about £130 an hour minimum, then there's the cost of actually issuing a claim and a hearing fee to pay. How likely do you think they are to risk doing that when there's no guarantee they'll win, and in fact every chance that they'll lose, even if they do win it's a small claim so unless you're entirely unreasonable they won't get costs and their options for making you pay any judgement might be severely limited depending on your circumstances, which they have no way of knowing.

 

If you are truly worried - and I mean truly, truly worried - if the absolute worst happened and they did get judgement against you, if you pay it within (I think) a month, it doesn't get registered as a CCJ, so you could put the money to one side just in case.

[reallymadwoman]

No disrespect intended to comebackjimmy, but advice on this forum is all provided by volunteers so you should wait for several suggestions, or several people making the same suggestion, before doing something you can't change your mind about, like sending a letter. Reading other threads should also help you get a feel for what the general opinion is.

[polomint73]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate this advice. This is not my area of expertise at all.

 

The machine that I was trying to use would only accept cash because the card machine was broken but I hadn't noticed this until all of my items had been scanned. So I rescanned all items, paid and left. I am not sure why the toothpaste wasn't on my receipt and hadn't scanned. Normally if something doesn't scan it will ask you to redo it.

 

I haven't had a letter confirming my store ban but I was asked to sign to agree with the ban, which I did because I was in shock, humiliated and just wanted to leave. The guard was very nice to me and called a woman in as a witness. Stupidly, I didn't get a copy of what I had signed or the guards name / company.

 

I will attach the letter shortly which states what the £150 is for.

[reallymadwoman]

Make sure you remove/black out (but not on the original!) any personal details including the name of the store etc, and any bar codes which appear anywhere on the letter.

[polomint73]

Sure, will do. Just doing that now

[reallymadwoman]

Since I remember being new to the forums and waiting anxiously for replies on my thread, I'm going to warn you that I will be going out shortly for most of the evening. I am not ignoring you, honest!

[polomint73]

Thank you, everybody on here has been so helpful. Sorry it took me so long. Scanner issues!!

 

The letter should be attached now.

[polomint73]

I think they shrunk the attachments so I have reattached them in a zip file.

drydens.zip

[comebackjimmy]

Hi reallymadwoman

 

No offence taken at all.

 

Just to be clear I have no experience in this area. I just saw a post that looked desperate for some help and put forward what I thought would be some practical suggestions.

 

If any part of my post seems wrong to you please do not hesitate to put forward a correction as it is the interests of polomint that must be paramount.

[reallymadwoman]

Hi reallymadwoman

 

No offence taken at all. Thank heavens my suggestion was taken in the spirit it was intended!

 

Just to be clear I have no experience in this area. I just saw a post that looked desperate for some help and put forward what I thought would be some practical suggestions.

ditto, but hopefully someone else will contribute. If not, then I'll ask for help on another thread.

 

If any part of my post seems wrong to you please do not hesitate to put forward a correction as it is the interests of polomint that must be paramount.

 

This is what these forums depend on, and I wouldn't normally have made the suggestion I did except that the OP is obviously new to us and might not realise that, apart from a very few, no one is speaking as an expert.

[reallymadwoman]

I think they shrunk the attachments so I have reattached them in a zip file.

 

It will be later this evening or tomorrow before I can take a look, not least because they're waiting approval, which I think is because you're a new member.

[Surfer01]

What made the guard decide to pick on you to find the toothpaste as generally these self service tills are monitored by a staff member. Seems strange that out of all the people that use these tills they picked on you for some reason. As you said the till beeps every time something goes through it and you then see the item on the screen. Did you have two of the same item as that may have cuased the problem? Either way I would not bother with paying these clowns and woudl also appeal to ASDA stating your case.

[comebackjimmy]

Hi Surfer01

 

I think you have raised excellent points.

 

I also very much like the idea of writing to Asda and thought about suggesting it myself. My only worry is whether such a letter might be subsequently produced as evidence against polomint

 

I wonder what you, and others think.

[polomint73]

I have been thinking about writing to them and saying that I am prepared to go to court to prove my innocence, because it was an honest mistake. They would have called the police if they believed that I had stolen anything.

[Button1]

...

Edited March 29, 2010 by Button1

[MARTIN3030]

attatchments now approved.

[polomint73]

Thank you Button, I will most definitely stick to my guns. I am 100% confident that I have done nothing unlawful. I managed to find a report by the citizens advice bureau (Unreasonable demands?) It makes for very interesting reading.

 

On page 10 of the PDF report it states. However, Asda has stated that it is its policy

not to issue claims letters to “offenders under

16 and over 65 or the mentally disturbed”, to

“offenders who steal goods to the value of

less than £3”, or “where there is any

reasonable doubt as to whether the

individuals had committed the offence”

 

I am going to contact the author of that report and see if they would be willing to write to Asda on my behalf as they have done for other clients.

 

I will keep you posted and let you know what happens.

 

Thanks again to everyone on this forum, you have given me the confidence to dispute this ridiculous claim.

[Surfer01]

Also if the guard stopped you just prior to exiting the store, then in the eyes of the law no theft took place as the item was not removed illegally from their premises at the point, however if they stopped you immediatley outside then they may have an argument, but not a court case.

[polomint73]

A quick update. The CAB have advised that they will support me and that I should write to the local store, head office and to Drydens which I have done. I will let you know what happens next!

[elizabeth.t]

Hi there! I am in the middle of writing a letter replying to drydens , i am curious what you have written ...i am being asked to pay £100 and iv noticed you have said : “offenders under

16 and over 65 or the mentally disturbed”, to

“offenders who steal goods to the value of

less than £3” ....Which applies to me , i admit to the mistake iv made and i have payed for the item and the police were not called ...i am not willing to pay £100 yet i feel i deserve to pay some sort of fine ...i am wondering whether to write i am willing pay X amount of money and see what they say...how much should i settle for?? ..i really dont have the means to pay for £100!!! thanks for any help

Edited January 16, 2010 by elizabeth.t

[comebackjimmy]

Hi Elizabeth T

 

Would you mind telling your story a little bit? From your post I get the impression you feel you are guilty of something. If it was a genuine mistake perhaps you have no need to feel guilty. If you genuinely are guilty then you need some forgiveness and support somewhere. Paying out to these bloodsuckers might work psychologically for you, but perhaps something else would be better and more appropriate?

 

The fact that you feel the need to make a restitution, whether you do or not, proves you are a good person and deserving of any support and help we can give.