Bailliff seized company car. Help!

[kbdavies]

Hello,

A car registered to a company of which i am the director was

recently towed away by a baillif over an unpaid PCN in Sept 09.

The vehicle has the company name as the registered keeper, and

my name as the contact. The PCN was in the name of the Company, but was incurred by

another employee.

The bailiff arrived early one morning showed me a Notice of Seizure, and demanded payment of the PCN.

 

I had not received anything before, and he had not visited the premises before, so I refused to pay,and eplained i needed to find out which employee got the PCN. He then attampted to clamp the car. When i resisted, he blocked the vehicle in the driveway, and called a tow truck, which removed the car.

 

As i was travelling that morning for 2mths, i instructed the company secretary to go and pick up the car.

The total amount paid for £700. The PCN was £110, Bailliff feed £355, and removal cost £175.

What are my rights, and can they do this?

 

 

Thanks.

[High Court Enforcer]

In short, yes, they can do this.

 

However, you should have been aware of the PCN as various letters from the council would have been posted to registered address.

 

Curiously, you do say that the PCN was incured by another employee but then say you knew nothing about it???

[gezwee]

In short, yes, they can do this.

 

However, you should have been aware of the PCN as various letters from the council would have been posted to registered address.

 

Curiously, you do say that the PCN was incured by another employee but then say you knew nothing about it???

 

Hi HCE

 

For the benefit of the OP and others please could you confirm if the charges levied appear correct?

 

Thanks

 

Gez

[High Court Enforcer]

Hi HCE, For the benefit of the OP and others please could you confirm if the charges levied appear correct? Thanks, Gez

 

Not sure if you're trying to catch me out here as I always get asked this...

 

Anyway, it has been several years since I was involved in Parking Enforcement. Having said that, the charges appear to be for more than one visit. At a guess, probably 2.

 

HCE

[gezwee]

Not sure if you're trying to catch me out here as I always get asked this...

 

Anyway, it has been several years since I was involved in Parking Enforcement. Having said that, the charges appear to be for more than one visit. At a guess, probably 2.

 

HCE

 

Hi HCE

 

Nope, it was a genuine question....... seems to be a lot of opinion on here regarding what is or isnt correct or lawful. It'd be nice to get some clarity on the issue of fees levied.

 

The removal fee doesnt look improper (imho), just the visit fee/s (assume thats all the Bailiff is implying?) looks excessive and wondering if the OP has grounds to recover some of this sum?

 

Thanks

 

Gez

[kbdavies]

Up to 3 employees drive the vehicle, inc myself. As it wasn't me, it had to be one of the other employees.

I had been away for 2 mths, and this happened when i got back. We share the premises with other tenants, and we have had mail missing or not received before.

No one could confirm he had visited before, but i understand this does not mean he never visited.

I was unaware of OOT and Stat Decs, but also had a flight to catch that morning.

He initially asked for paymet, and when i refused, he tried to clamp, when i resisted, he called the tow truck. Im sure there is something illegal in his actions. All advice welcome

Thanks

[High Court Enforcer]

It doesnt sound like anything illegal to me, if you refused to pay he has a right to remove the vehicle.

 

Your gripe may be that you never received the letters or that he has charged for a visit not made. Many councils insist that the Bailiffs have trackers that corroberate visits these days.

 

I know I'd be looking at your colleagues and demanding to know who got the ticket!!!

[High Court Enforcer]

Hi HCE

 

Nope, it was a genuine question....... seems to be a lot of opinion on here regarding what is or isnt correct or lawful. It'd be nice to get some clarity on the issue of fees levied.

 

The removal fee doesnt look improper (imho), just the visit fee/s (assume thats all the Bailiff is implying?) looks excessive and wondering if the OP has grounds to recover some of this sum?

 

Thanks

 

Gez

 

I know that 7 years ago, on a £195 warrant, on a 1st visit the bailiff was looking for around £350, 2nd was around £570 and 3rd was around £800.

[seanamarts]

taken from Tom Tubbies site.

 

Original Parking Ticket: £100. If paid within the discounted period of 14 days: £50. If unpaid, original debt of £100 increases by 50% to: £150 Court Fee: £5 Warrant of Execution amount: £155 The amount of £155 is passed to the bailiff to collect. If you pay on receipt of a first letter you should pay: £168.16 If you pay when a first visit is made you should pay: £222.84 Original Parking Ticket: £80 If paid within the discounted period of 14 days: £40. If unpaid, original debt of £80 increases by 50% to: £120 Court Fee: £5 Warrant of Execution amount: £125 The amount of £125 is passed to the bailiff to collect. If you pay on receipt of a first letter you should pay: £138.16 If you pay when a first visit is made you should pay: £182.97 Original Parking Ticket: £60. If paid within the discounted period of 14 days: £30. If unpaid, original debt of £60 increases by 50% to: £90 Court Fee: £5 Warrant of Execution amount: £95 The amount of £95 is passed to the bailiff to collect. If you pay on receipt of a first letter you should pay: £106.20 If you pay when a first visit is made you should pay: £143.10 Original Parking Ticket: £40. If paid within the discounted period of 14 days: £20. If unpaid, original debt of £40 increases by 50% to: £60 Court Fee: £5 Warrant of Execution amount: £65 The amount of £65 is passed to the bailiff to collect. If you pay on receipt of a first letter you should pay: £78.16 If you pay when a first visit is made you should pay: £111.06

[seanamarts]

I know that 7 years ago, on a £195 warrant, on a 1st visit the bailiff was looking for around £350, 2nd was around £570 and 3rd was around £800.

This was for a collection for a PCN ???

[High Court Enforcer]

This was for a collection for a PCN ???

 

Yes. These figures are more or less the same for three different Bailiff companies that I knew of.

[seanamarts]

Yes. These figures are more or less the same for three different Bailiff companies that I knew of.

seems a bit excessive to me

[High Court Enforcer]

seems a bit excessive to me

 

I didnt set the fees, each company did.

 

I witnessed several court cases and on each occasion the judge never questioned the fees. Each company also charged waiting time, from £90 - £125 per hour.

[kbdavies]

@HCE - Ok. What do you mean by "tracker"? My wife(works with me) mentioned she had noticed the van lurking around a couple of days before.

[High Court Enforcer]

A tracker will electronically measure via GPS the movements of the Bailiffs van. It will show where he has been and when.

 

Which means it will show if and when he visited your property previously.

[gezwee]

Ok. What do you mean by "tracker"? My wife(works with me) mentioned she had noticed the van lurking around a couple of days before.

 

I think (forgive me if i'm wrong) that HCE is inferring that Bailiffs carry vehicle trackers so that if their movements/visits are ever brought into question they can provide the court with evidence of services effected by time, date and location.

 

Gez

[High Court Enforcer]

I think (forgive me if i'm wrong) that HCE is inferring that Bailiffs carry vehicle trackers so that if their movements/visits are ever brought into question they can provide the court with evidence of services effected by time, date and location.

 

Gez

 

I know that many employed Bailiffs have trackers in their company vans and that TFL used to insist on tracker reports when cases went to court.

 

I also know of self employed Bailiffs that had to get trackers fitted before they could do TFL work.

[kbdavies]

Thanks guys, this seems to be making sense now.

If my wife is correct in noticing the van couple of days before (she swears by this), then it means that the bailiff did indeed visist the location, but NEVER dropped a letter or knock on the premises.

Also, other employees confirm that no bailiff visited the premises, and no letter received.

Why would he do this? Is it to rack up the charges. He would have seen the vehicle there, as it was not being driven at this time. By visiting, but not knocking, he can then add charges for multiple visits to the total.

amount!

I may be getting ahead of myself here, but this seems to explain why no could confirm he had ever visited the property before that morning.

[gezwee]

Thanks guys, this seems to be making sense now.

If my wife is correct in noticing the van couple of days before (she swears by this), then it means that the bailiff did indeed visist the location, but NEVER dropped a letter or knock on the premises.

Also, other employees confirm that no bailiff visited the premises, and no letter received.

Why would he do this? Is it to rack up the charges. He would have seen the vehicle there, as it was not being driven at this time. By visiting, but not knocking, he can then add charges for multiple visits to the total.

amount!

I may be getting ahead of myself here, but this seems to explain why no could confirm he had ever visited the property before that morning.

 

Hi kbd

 

I wouldnt get too far ahead of yourself with this.

 

Fees levied aside..........

 

I think the best course of action would be as follows:

 

1. Get the driver to put his/her hands up

 

2. Check their contract of employment (another bod on here should be able to help in the employment section) to see if monies recoverable. Seems very unfair I know but hey they've benefitted from what looks to be a pool car and dumped this mess on your desk.

 

3. Contact Bailiff co requesting breakdown of all charges and evidence/data held for any services effected in recovery.

 

If 1 & 2 are possible and leave you with no out of pocket expenses it saves the headache of 3

 

If you have been able to resolve with 1 & 2 leave it to the employee to deal with 3.

 

Gez

[hallowitch]

I assume as this is a company car it has business insurance

 

bailiffs cant levy or remove a work tool in this case the car

[hallowitch]

NATIONAL STANDARDS FOR ENFORCEMENT AGENTS may 2002

List B

 

I'm sure this includes parking tickets

 

 

Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally by the tenant in their employment, business or vocation and such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions are as necessary for satisfying the basic domestic needs of the debtor and his family

[gezwee]

I assume as this is a company car it has business insurance

 

bailiffs cant levy or remove a work tool in this case the car

 

Hi Hallowitch

 

You wouldnt happen to have a link to the legislation for this would you please?

 

Is this for Ltd, Plc, sole traders or any?

 

Cheers

 

Gez

[gezwee]

NATIONAL STANDARDS FOR ENFORCEMENT AGENTS may 2002

List B

 

I'm sure this includes parking tickets

 

 

Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally by the tenant in their employment, business or vocation and such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions are as necessary for satisfying the basic domestic needs of the debtor and his family

 

Crikey, posted before I'd finished typing....... musta had your crystal ball out

[hallowitch]

This is a good read for ayone dealing with baillifs

Page 48 post 953 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/58550-council-tax-bailiffs-48.html

[wonkeydonkey]

Thanks guys, this seems to be making sense now.

If my wife is correct in noticing the van couple of days before (she swears by this), then it means that the bailiff did indeed visist the location, but NEVER dropped a letter or knock on the premises.

Also, other employees confirm that no bailiff visited the premises, and no letter received.

Why would he do this? Is it to rack up the charges. He would have seen the vehicle there, as it was not being driven at this time. By visiting, but not knocking, he can then add charges for multiple visits to the total.

amount!

I may be getting ahead of myself here, but this seems to explain why no could confirm he had ever visited the property before that morning.

 

I don't think you are getting ahead of yourself I think you can make 2+2=4

Bailiff already close by..drives around ...tracker confirms

To cold to get out of car and deliver,knock,call etc..what the hell I can show I have been and thats what counts..