hushpuppy - ** SATISFACTORY CONCLUSION**

[hushpuppy]

Well, didn't have long to wait for a response, had a call this morning to say their clients have asked if I would be willing to a case adjounment so they can investigate defaults (whatever that means) my reply strangly enough was no you've already had one adjournment, to which there was right and the phone put down (nice).

Does anyone know the likelyhood of them getting another adjournment? they had chance at the AQ with the ' Draft Orders for direction' to change anything,

The data I am going on is what they sent me so they should know it better than me.

[gh2008]

Did their letter say that they were discontinuing/withdrawing??

 

if why the F$%% are they continuing now!!!

 

I would ring the Court and ask them if they have received anything, keep all these letters from them and take them to Court - with copies - to prove how they are behaving.

[hushpuppy]

Hi gh,

 

Rang the court Fri, nothing had been put in. Ther last letter said they would notagree to reporting default to CRA, said the loan still existed, just could not find it, only on all outstanding payments will they remove default on credit file. enclosed order as above.

 

trouble is with the letters they are all WP, (but mine are not)

( so cant put to jusge until costs stage)

My letter to them was no compliance with CPR,

 

Disputed that I had admitted loan on claim form, said I was refering to an earlier loan.

Mislead OH into making payments, agreement letter was on first loan.

 

Not fully met SAR

 

Their duplicate statements on loan do not conform to OH own banks statements

 

Schedule of arrears is contradicts itself.

 

enclosed Tomlin order for their re-consideration.

 

I thought if I brought all this up at hearing they might say they need adjournment.

 

They said the wanted an adjourment to investigate default? they sent me the data in the first place.

 

Got a friend who works in litigation to look at everything I have for hearing and she said what I have is good, she says they didnt expect a figtht and they are just trying to wear me down and accept anything, they have no case.

But that doesn't stop all this shhhh, and the thought of another adjournment, never the less I have an agrument together for when the go for adjournment.

[gh2008]

Hmmmmmm

 

I think I would be tempted to agree to the adjournment BUT you want a 'black and white' reason why

 

In a new letter specifically ask them why they want the adjournment and for how long.

As it will be a new letter chain the WP will not apply

 

WP only applies if it is a genuine attempt at settlement

 

Their action only prolongs things, BUT gives you more time as well (I would seriously investigate the possibility of representation on a pro-bono basis)

 

You have a *very* good case and could give them a good 'going over' if this ever gets to Court BUT as BRW said in his posts there is more to the whole thing.

[hushpuppy]

There will be no time for a letter as the hearing is tomorrow.

 

Thats interesting about WP as nearly every letter they have sent me has WP. seem to be standard procedure for them.

 

I feel too I need to go down the representation road, I did enquire on Sol costs but they were so high,

 

Looking into everything in more detail after BRW advise, I really got to grips with everything. I think they are worried that they will have to pay back all the monies we have paid in, its in black and white that payments were not agreed to on this particular Loan account.

 

Their accounting is a complete fairy story, there has been a lot more money paid in than in their accounts state. which is all provable from my end.

 

Just worked so hard on this since last ajournment and the thought of it continuing. They want to ajourn to investigate the default, what does that mean, other thing is could giving them more time, help them to rectify data and wriggle out of things?

 

so frustrated.

[hushpuppy]

just rang the court again to see if anything has been put in since friday. and there is nothing since the May ajournment.

 

Just had a thought, if they adjourned the case because they hadn't been informed of SJ and have put no defence in.

 

Why havn't they bothered to put in a defence, and still want to go for ajournment? (feeling suspicious)

[hushpuppy]

WON, WON, WON, (well mostly so far) Went to court this morning,

 

femail DJ,( who was brilliant), Loan is discontinued, have to put in WS within, just went perfect. she really knew the case

 

28 days to giving reasons and evidence why it should not be given to CRA

 

and default on file, and to put in evidence and reasons why I do not owe

 

interest on O/D.

 

Cobbetts took a hammering, especially on putting in their W/S in court, they evidently sent it to me by S/D this morning.

 

My argument flowed, (thanks to GH and BRW's help, and kicking my !!!!!!)

I was allowed to dispute what O/S stated, it was not a good day for her, (loved it).

 

Will post up details later of case. just wanted to say its a WIN, and a bit thank you to GH and BRW for help to this stage.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Hushpuppy!

 

E-X-C-E-L-L-E-N-T!

 

But keep at this all the way, keep reading, and keep sharp.

 

Don't let them slither out of this.

 

Have you read up on Costs?

 

i.e. to put in your own Costs for all of the work done.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[supasnooper]

Congrats and well done.

[gh2008]

Yay, well done HP your hard work was properly rewarded.

 

When you've come down off your well deserved high could you write up what happened again I think I can decipher most of the post above

[hushpuppy]

Thankyou.

 

Got to court and o/s came over introduced themselves, (very superior) asked if I had received their W/S to which of course I replied no, she said well it was e-mailed to you last night, and a S/D sent to you this morning,(hey what happened to 7 days before case)

Oh dear, never read my e-mails, and I must have left when it came this morning, she then said shall we go into a room and I can take you through court procedure and what is going to happen in the case. to which I politely declined.

 

Got into court, lady DJ, (looks no nonsense) said to o/s straight away the court received your W/S this morning, has the defendent received it? she then had to say no, well, the D/J went off said about court proceedure and that defendant was a person in lit, and that there was seven pages for me to get through, just how did she expect me to do that?

O/S said she knows it was late but this was due to negotiations right up to the court date, but the sticking point was the default, they had said they would not repot default. D/J asked me if this was right, said it was not, the last communication with them was on 7th July when I re-submitted my negotiation order, apart from Mon when they rang to see if I would agree to an ajournment, said nearly every letter from them was WP, but for this purpose if I could read "only when our client has received all outstanding payments in full can they remove the default on your credit file" (o/s looked like she would like to stab me).

 

 

 

D/J asked if I wanted to have another court date, said I would prefer to carry on, said she would not carry on but stop the case for 15 mins for the other side to bring me up to par, (told o/s that they would be charged for time).

 

Outside whilst I was reading o/s started to question, I said do you know I think I would feel far more comfortable if you saved this for inside the court, (loved it), but there was nothing there that I didn't expect except

(this was on s/j applicant seeks point 1-4)

The defendent has not pleaded the above in any of her pleadings nor has the defendant made any application to amend her pleadings to plead the above, nor has the defendant made a counterclaim.

 

I had typed out all my points for the case, with relevant dates, and had the my file with me sectioned for easy access.

 

Back in court the D/J said there was no way that the case could be dealt with in the time we had, but we would get through what we could done.

 

O/S came up first with the O/D and that I had basically, not defended against it, I stated that the POC said account, it was only on other information at the AQ stage that the O/D had been brought into the case. and despite my asking for an order for them to particularise properly, they hadn't, they had also not sent the required data for this O/D.

 

D/J asked if I was disputing the O/D, said no when I was defaulted on the account there was a sum owed, I am disputing the added interest, as they had refused my initial payments, taken away any means I had to pay by, I requested and was allowed to read out the end of a letter I had sent the RBS, basically stating "they had not contacted me for 2 years and 3 months and requesting statement, disputing interest, requesting a method to pay" said this letter cannot be disputed as it came up in the SARs. BUT I have never disputed the initial amount and had tried to pay it.

 

D/J said how much do you owe without interest and I told her.

 

D/J said you have said there are two loans (last case) refered to my notes briefly took her through from signing the original loan the only loan I have signed, to compalints made to FOS, when even 10 months after alleged loan could not be produced, only original, how if Sep loan, which carried PPI would have been invaluable, when O/H had accident.

 

D/J asked o/s, and you have nothing, no information at all about the original loan, couldn't say anything, just quiet no.

 

O/s just went through how loan was taken out in Jan 06, bla bla bla,

 

I said Not only can the loan not be produced, the duplicated statements for the loan are incorrect, as is signed statement of account, RBS diary of events started 3 months after alleged loan, etc,

 

You'll love this gh, o/s only brought up Phillip McGuffick v RBS (one of the cases you told me to know) have had it on my table since.

I sweetly said I don't think that case is applicable that was for an unenforceable agreement, mine is an irredeemably unenforceable agreement, and the judge declined making a ruling on that and the reporting to CRA. (that felt good)

 

D/J also brought up that O/H had paid regular amounts towards this loan, increasing from Jan, said yes he had, and the letter making the arrangements carried my application number from the original loan, this didn't change to alleged loan account number until 08.

 

There was bits of other stuff I can't remember, but D/J hadn't missed a thing, then o/s said they were going to discontinue.

 

D/J said well the loan has gone, I am going to make an order for you to put in a W/S within 28 days re - O/D and why should not be reported, she went into quite a bit of detail about what was required on W/S.

 

Sad thing is, she asked if I was happy for her to proceed on the next hearing or if either party thought she had compromised herself on her opinions on W/S. (of course I was quite happy) she asked other side, she thought she had compromised herself, D/J asked her if she waanted her to withdraw from case, she said yes (of course she did).

 

Oh, costs (didn't forget BRW) D/J asked if any costs had been put in, O/S said, we are not going to apply for cost, D/J said you can't apply for cost, you have discontinued, opened a book and read her CPRs,

I very happily said I have sent a list of my costs with my last letter to Cobbetts, she had to take them up, D/J looked at them, said well todays costs are awarded at £250. said it may be at the next hearing the O/D is ofset against some of the costs.

I wish she was on the next hearing, but then you can't have everything in life, but today was certainly a high point for a lit.

 

I will start on my WS tomorrow, and post it up for you opinions.

 

Now for a glass of wine in the largest glass I can find.

[supasnooper]

Excellent report ( but please try to expand the initials...helps any newbies )

 

If they have discontinued then that is it....................game over ..........you've won !!

 

Please do wait for confirmation fom the court.........and keep the the NOD ( Notice Of Discontinuance) safe.

 

..........................don't forget to pursue your costs !

 

Enjoy the glass of vino !!........and the next one.

Edited July 14, 2010 by supasnooper
thought it was a typo...but it wasn't.

[citizenB]

Oh well done hushpuppy and to everyone that contributed to your success story. You should be really proud of yourself.

[hushpuppy]

Just an undate after winning round one.

 

DJ ordered that I send in within 28 days of the case a witness statement with evidence defending that RBS should remove adverse data from my credit file and not keep reporting the now discontinued loan.

 

Also why I should not pay the interest on OD and evidence.

 

This I have done. not sure if I should sent Cobbetts a copy of the witness statement, but will ring court to find out.

 

There was a lot of nice daming evidence, but can not predict outcome, especially as I will not have the same DJ due to Cobbetts objection, clearly not going the way they wanted, but have to wait and see now.

[citizenB]

Just an undate after winning round one.

 

DJ ordered that I send in within 28 days of the case a witness statement with evidence defending that RBS should remove adverse data from my credit file and not keep reporting the now discontinued loan.

 

Also why I should not pay the interest on OD and evidence.

 

This I have done. not sure if I should sent Cobbetts a copy of the witness statement, but will ring court to find out.

 

There was a lot of nice daming evidence, but can not predict outcome, especially as I will not have the same DJ due to Cobbetts objection, clearly not going the way they wanted, but have to wait and see now.

 

I believe it is up to you to send a copy to the Opposition, unless you specifically requested that the court do it. But do check.

[sillygirl1]

You can request that the same judge sit on the case - it is part of the court procedure, sounds like a very good result after a lot of hard work and persistence on your side.

 

Well done!

[hushpuppy]

Hi, CitizenB & Sillygirl1,

 

I will take your advise and send a copy of WS, thinking about it as well they had the first case adjourned because they said they had not had paperwork, (even though I sent it) so recorded delivery seems on the cards.

They have not contacted me even though the DJ said the next 28 days would be an ideal opportunity for negotiation, if they live up to their actions so far, contact will be just before the next hearing,

 

Difficult one with the DJ as she asked if we were both happy with her sitting on the next hearing, but other side said they were not,(either brave or stupid) so she withdrew herself. Os were also very surprised there was going to be another hearing.

[hushpuppy]

Hi, another quick update.

Had General form of Judgement Order today, to say WS has to be in by tomorrow, fortunately it is already in, and when the next hearing date was. The order stated to what I should make a statment about, (not reporting to CRA and over-draft) one of the items was to reply to the section in the o/s WS for reasons to report to credit reference agencies, where they have quoted Phillip McGuffick v RBS, (to which I did reply to in my statement) basically saying that the reference to this case was not relevant because the case was on a temporarily unenforceable agreement mine was irredeemably unenforceable and no ruling was made on this, and the court may consider on the facts of a particular case.

Despite the DJ saying the next 28 days would be an ideal time to come to an ageement I have heard nothing from os. think thats all I can update at the moment.

[gh2008]

Well done HP - when I remember your first posts ......... now here you are taking on the DCAs & the Judges Good on you

[hushpuppy]

Thanks GH,

 

Its thanks to this forum and the people like yourself who help, that I now have the knowledge to fight back, may not win at the end of the day, but nothing to say we can't give it a go.

 

Latest is O/S lived up to expectations and sent me their WS on the last day, but this time I played the same game and mine crossed with theirs in the post. They have re-submitted their original WS, so same old stuff, best part of theirs is made up of terms and conditions of standard bank account, unfortunately for them it is not the same terms and conditions of my original account (which I still have) and it works to my advantage with my argument about them not allowing me to access to pay off the over-draft, (whilst they have been adding interest) it states,

we will be entitled to refuse to accept any more payments into the account (except such payments as are necessary to repay any debt and outstanding interest and charges)

The rest is statements and accounts which I have sent evidence in that they are incorrect. Wondering if they can resubmit their W/S once they see mine, but they would have to rectify all their accounts.

[hushpuppy]

Well here we are again two weeks away from round two, and other side being predictable with their actions.

 

Just to recap, They RBS are no longer pursuing me for a supposed loan, they dropped that in round one, I am now asking the court that they remove all adverse data from my credit file, and that I do not pay the interest on an outstanding over draft as they gave me no opportunity to pay it. I have sent in my witness statement to the court with the evidence I have, But ---

 

Had a letter today from other sides solicitors (Cobbetts), despite having sent them a copy of my witness statement 5 weeks ago, it has come to their attention that the copy I sent them was incomplete and unsigned.

 

They want me to provide them with a signed copy, although my name is typed I only signed the court copy, I do not see any need to sign theirs as it is just that a copy.

 

They also want the exhibits referred to in the witness statement, (despite the fact they came from the bank in the first place).

 

I phoned the court to see if I have to send them the exhibits but they said they didn't know, if it was directed by the court I had to, the court order says - The defendant shall file and serve a statement - ----

 

I don't want to appear difficult to the court, but is it normal to sent the other side exhibits??????

 

Anyone got any info on this I would appreciate it.

[citizenB]

Hi hushpuppy,

 

If you have referred to exhibits in your WS then yes, at some point, you would have been required to provide those exhibits to both the court and the opposition. You can sign the WS but make it slightly different to your normal signature, and make a copy of it so that you will recognise it again .. just in case.

 

What exactly did the order from the court say and have you provided copies of the exhibits to the court.

 

Has Cobbets provided you with a copy of their WS and exhibits ?

[hushpuppy]

Hi citizenB,

 

I sent in my WS to the court with all the exhibits, just sent a copy of the WS to Cobbetts, I am not too worried about sending them the exibits, because it all came from them in the first place, but they have it wrong and by using it as the exibits with my own statements it proves it, nothing they can do about that, the only one I am not too happy with is the copy agreement from the original loan, they said in court they did not have this, (they know I have) and I am woriied they may be able use the data on this, they have said they had insufficient data to reconstruct the discontinued loan (although there never was one) I wouldn't put anything past this lot.

 

They have only provided me with the first seven pages of their WS, although the DJ took a break from the last case so I could see what they had, there was nothing much it was what I had anyway, plus copy of Phillip McGuffick case.

 

Court papers say

1. The defendant shall file and serve a statement by -------- dealing with the following matters in respect of the account -------

 

a. Whether sh admits that any amount is outstanding and if so how much and how that amount is calculated

 

b. explaining the history of the account including any communications with the claimant and any payments made

 

c. whether in the light of the decision referred to at para ------ of the WS of ------ -------- dated -------- she maintained that references to credit reference agencies in respect of the account or the account in respect of which the claimant has discontinued its claim should be removed and if so on what authority. Any documentary evidence in support should be annexed to the statement.

 

They have said here that according to the Phillip McGuffick case the judgement said reporting to the credit reference agencies was not held to be enforcing a loan agreement.

and they need to report as there is still an outstanding dept with the claimant.

 

Thats abot it really, if I have to give a signed copy, I will definately take your advise.

[hushpuppy]

Just to update, Going to court this week and cobbitts have done the usual, sent through a Tomlin Order on the last few days, there is nothing in it about not reporting to CRA,

 

Bearing in mind I was awarded £250 for the last court case with my other costs to be assesed,

 

whilst they are confident they will succeed with their claim RBS are willing to accept £250 final settlement, and vacate this weeks case,

plus a lot of other waffle, I will not be signing the tomlin order I really want to stop the reporting to the CRA, I do not see why they should be allowed to do this when the agreement was never signed in the first place. I have to give it a go as much as I hate the court bit, so fingers crossed at least it will be over this week.

[gh2008]

That Tomlin Order is a start of negotiations.

 

Make an offer back to them make the first one OTT of what you want and then you may be able to meet in the middle ground

i.e. no further action remove adverse credit and no payment either way. (that would be an excellent result for you)

 

Good luck