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    • stop doing nolans job for them... there are numerous threads here in the same forum yours is in     no DN info to follow   dx    
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Can an advisor ask and answer questions?


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I have just finniseh a string or meetings during a grievence/appeal hearing.

 

At all of them, the compnay had a representative from an external HR company there.

 

I was advised that they were there to take minutes and advise.

 

When i reviewed my notes i have realised that they conducted part of the questioning, prompted on dates and order of events etc

 

Is this fit and proper?

 

Also is there and legal differnce between notes and minutes?

 

 

I have just compared a verbatim transcript with the minutes provided and they are vastly different. I know that minutes are supposed to be an abridged version, by how far does that stretch.

 

The minutes are 14 pages but the transcript is over 33 pages.

 

Plus in the verbatum transcript a phrase like " i apoligise, we were wrong, but we don't intend to address that now" has been noted/minuted as " i will take a note of that"

 

Help?

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There is no particular legal difference so far as I am aware.

 

Minutes are a record of a meeting - does not need to be exhaustive but has to be accurate.

 

Notes are simply notes of relevant points from a meeting and would not include anything not pertinent to the issue at hand.

 

Can I ask- how did you get a verbatim transcript - was the meeting recorded and did you do it surrepticiously?

 

The final issue regarding the minutes is do the differences reduce the impact of your case - i.e. are the minutes a fair reflection or do they favour the employers perspective?

 

This is relevant in terms of the advice

I am not a lawyer, so all my advice is provided on the basis that you will check them with a trained legal professional with legal insurance.:(

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I have a recording of the meeting, therefore my account is verbatum

 

It was taken without the other parties knowledge, however i understand that i am covered by the DPA Article 36, as the recording has not been revealed to a third party.

 

It is not also without precendent at an ET to present either a transcript in some cases a recording itself.

 

However it's the role of the advisor i really need to question, just how much interference can they get involved in?

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Tricky. I can't See anything in the ACAS D&G guidlines that really covers your question.

 

I suppose the nearest analogy is the role of an employee representative in a disciplinary/grievance/appeal.

 

They're entitled to address the hearing and confer with the employee they're accompanying. They're not entitled to answer questions on the employees behalf though.

I don't know if it could be held that someone sitting in on a hearing from the employers perspective should act in an equivalent way.

 

The classic set-up is that a manager conducts the hearing, whilst someone takes notes.

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Does the recording prove that the advisors role was simply to record and advise?

 

If so, then you have evidence to show that they misled you in the conduct of the investigations.

 

At this stage, may I suggest you send them amended minutes, reflecting your version of events - keep mainly to their words and change only to reflect aspects that favour you. Try not to make it so that they suspect that you have recorded the meeting.

 

In the covering letter say that they must have not noted the meeting accurately and this version of the minutes, you feel, better reflects the discussions. Don't tell them you have recorded the meeting but also don't lie (this is important if you want the integrity of the recording to be maintained).

 

The recording is most likely to be allowed at an ET, but if you lie about it, it affects your credibility. Also I assume the reason you recorded the meeting is not that you dont have any trust and confidence in your employers, but because you needed a memory aid. Otherwise, if there is a loss of trust and confidence, you could win at ET but still be dismissed (see aziz v trinity taxis on BAILII website)

I am not a lawyer, so all my advice is provided on the basis that you will check them with a trained legal professional with legal insurance.:(

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If you have a verbatim recording/transcription, and their notes/minutes don't reflect that, they're in bother, no?

Yes I agree - this, coupled with the advisor conducting the interview, indicates that the result was a foregone conclusion and the hearing was not fair. Accordingly, any dismissal as a result would also be unfair, I think.

I am not a lawyer, so all my advice is provided on the basis that you will check them with a trained legal professional with legal insurance.:(

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Does the recording prove that the advisors role was simply to record and advise?

 

If so, then you have evidence to show that they misled you in the conduct of the investigations.

 

At this stage, may I suggest you send them amended minutes, reflecting your version of events - keep mainly to their words and change only to reflect aspects that favour you. Try not to make it so that they suspect that you have recorded the meeting.

 

In the covering letter say that they must have not noted the meeting accurately and this version of the minutes, you feel, better reflects the discussions. Don't tell them you have recorded the meeting but also don't lie (this is important if you want the integrity of the recording to be maintained).

 

The recording is most likely to be allowed at an ET, but if you lie about it, it affects your credibility. Also I assume the reason you recorded the meeting is not that you dont have any trust and confidence in your employers, but because you needed a memory aid. Otherwise, if there is a loss of trust and confidence, you could win at ET but still be dismissed (see aziz v trinity taxis on BAILII website)

Why give em any warning, MC?

I don't know how it stands from a disclosure point of view, but why not say nowt, put your version down on the ET1 (if it comes to that), and hope they think that you can't substantiate what occured.

Then, they tell porkies on the ET3 and you've got em.

 

It worked for me several years ago. That was settled by Compromise Agreement, so it wasn't tested at ET.

It forced the Comp though, because they told blatent lies about what had occured at the Disc.

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Yes that could also work, but really it depends on what the charges are and if the OP is guilty or not and what evidence they have.

 

Because, if the OP is dismissed with strong evidence, Polkey defence would be that even if the procedure was erroneous, the OP was clearly guilty and would have been dismissed anyway, so no award despite an unfair dismissal.

 

My advice was really geared towards trying to avoid dismissal in the first instance, but keeping the ET option alive and well - because at this stage we do not know what evidence there is/ that will come out of the woodwork.

I am not a lawyer, so all my advice is provided on the basis that you will check them with a trained legal professional with legal insurance.:(

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But I get your point El.

 

If they lie on ET3, their goose will be cooked I guess.

I am not a lawyer, so all my advice is provided on the basis that you will check them with a trained legal professional with legal insurance.:(

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