Bailiffs vs Sheriffs Officers

[RaeUK]

Apols if this debate has been invited before in living memory...

My interactions with Bailiffs have been restricted to personal experiences and what I now read up on here and around the subject. Of Sheriffs Officers I know nothing at all other than a couple of posts here.

In my ignorance, it strikes me that the former are mainly oafish, bullying and unpleasant. The latter appear willing to listen, to negotiate and to treat the debtor as human.

Am I terribly wrong to wish that, as well as whisky, shortbread and tartan that perhaps importing Sheriffs Officers would not be a bad thing?

I appreciate the legal systems are different but wonder what people think in general?

Rae.

[Nintendo Pü]

Bailiffs are what you get in England Wales NI, and Sheriffs Officers are what you get in Scotland. They are not widely used because obtaining money by force is considered extortion, ditto why private wheelclamping is banned in Scotland.

 

The current regulations governing Sheriff Officers is quite new - Act of Sederunt (Fees of Sheriff Officers) 2007

[RaeUK]

Thankyou, yes I appreciate the geographical and legal disparity. That said, if all things were equal, on the surface it appears the Bailiff has a lot to learn from the Sheriffs Officer...

Rae.

[wonkeydonkey]

This is the sort of suggestion that the thread "whats the alternative" needed bringing forward. It did start well and suggestions were very diversified alas it ended up as a slanging match, why not resurect the question on there also? then we have two posts trying to make a difference to this disgusting industry.

[High Court Enforcer]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe that Kelcou is comparing Certificated Bailiffs to High Court Enforcement Officers (HCEO).

 

I am both so will sit on the fence on this occasion.

[RaeUK]

HCE your view is welcome in my thread. You may not be mistaken - I may be!

I don't know all the different terminologies for all the different incarnations of those who collect money on behalf of others.

From what you've said, am I right in concluding that a HCEO in England is the same as a Sheriffs Officer in Scotland? Only - from my limited reading - they appear to act differently.

Thanks.

Rae.

[High Court Enforcer]

HCE your view is welcome in my thread. You may not be mistaken - I may be!

I don't know all the different terminologies for all the different incarnations of those who collect money on behalf of others.

From what you've said, am I right in concluding that a HCEO in England is the same as a Sheriffs Officer in Scotland? Only - from my limited reading - they appear to act differently.

Thanks.

Rae.

 

Sheriffs Officers in England had their name changed to High Court Enforcement Officers in April 2004 (under the Courts Act 2003). The S word is still used quite often as it was a staple part of British law for hundreds of years.

 

Sheriffs/HCEO enforce High Court Writs or County Court Judgments transfered to the High Court for Enforcement. The CCJ's used to have to be over £5k but this was reduced to £600 in 2004.

 

Certificated Bailiffs hold a court certificate issued by Judge. The certificate is issued under the Distress for Rent rules (collection of commercila rent) but enables the Bailiff to collect Council Tax, Business Rates & Parking Fines for example.

 

Both the above operate in Engalnd & Wales.

 

Scotlands bailiffs are still called Sheriffs but work under very different laws.

 

Hope I'm not teaching you to suck eggs.

[hallowitch]

not sure if its the same when you are charged with an offence and your case is held in the sheriff court you go in front of the sheriff

 

there will be a lot of people happy this particular sheriff has retired

 

 

sheriff Albert Sheehan's 46-year legal career ends this month

Sheriff Albert Sheehan is to retire after a 46-year career in the legal profession.

The 69-year-old sheriff will be stepping down from the bench on 25 November. Based at Falkirk for the last 24 years, Sheriff Sheehan had a career in the fiscal service prior to being appointed a floating sheriff in 1979. He served at Hamilton and Paisley, and took up the position as senior depute in Glasgow before becoming deputy Crown Agent in the Crown Office from 1974 until 1979.

Other achievements included being awarded the Levi Hulme Fellowship Scholarship in 1971, and serving on the Scottish Law Commission from 1979 to 1981.

Sheriff Sheehan won media coverage when he fined BP a then record fine of £1 million for safety lapses at its refinery in Grangemouth after a fire at the site in June 2000. He also allowed the lifting of reporting restrictions on naming a 14-year-old drug dealer from Bo'ness - his own home town

[RaeUK]

Thankyou for that. I didn't appreciate HCEO's were once Sheriffs in England. Now that really muddies up my question! I'll have to ponder on the morrow...

Rae.

[RaeUK]

Thankyou for that Hallowitch. And to think I started this thread with such a wonderfull air of innocence...

Rae.

[High Court Enforcer]

Thankyou for that. I didn't appreciate HCEO's were once Sheriffs in England. Now that really muddies up my question! I'll have to ponder on the morrow...

Rae.

 

I wont mention 'Under Sheriffs' then..... I'll save that for another day...

[welsh1]

I wont mention 'Under Sheriffs' then..... I'll save that for another day...

 

I have just gone to look up Under Sheriffs,and found there is/was a High Sheriff as well:-o

But it says it is mainly a ceremonial role,is there any more Sheriff's we should know about,we have had under and high,is there a middle;)

[hallowitch]

I have just gone to look up Under Sheriffs,and found there is/was a High Sheriff as well

 

I just googled that as well(saved the search to read later) i don't know if there were/are under sheriffs in Scotland do you know HCE

 

MY one and only dealings i had with a sheriff was sheriff Albert sheenan and the man put the fear of god into me

[RaeUK]

Oh for goodness sake peolple! If ever I get around to rephrasing the opening post it's going to be 17 pages long with more qualifying small print than a credit agreement!

But in the meantime it's an interesting discussion...

Rae.

[welsh1]

Oh for goodness sake peolple! If ever I get around to rephrasing the opening post it's going to be 17 pages long with more qualifying small print than a credit agreement!

But in the meantime it's an interesting discussion...

Rae.

 

I'm sorry but that made me laugh out loud,thank you:D:D

[RaeUK]

You're very welcome. As they say: laugh and the whole world laughs with you. Smile, and they wonder what you've been up to...

Rae.

[ploddertom]

I wont mention 'Under Sheriffs' then..... I'll save that for another day...

 

Not too bad as long as you don't wear them too tight!:roll:

 

PT

[Joemcm35]

In Scotland, the following are the correct designations.

Sheriffs - these are judges who sit in the Sheriff Courts throughout Scotland.

Sheriff Officers - these are officers of court whose remit is to serve

Sheriff Court summonses etc and to enforce Sheriff Court orders.

Messenger at Arms - these are officers of court whose remit is to serve Court of Session (the highest civil court in Scotland) and to enforce Court of Session court orders. The office of Messenger at Arms dates back to the 16 century.

Training to be a sheriff officer takes 3 years (although this can be reduced due to certain training exemptions i.e. previous legal training & experience) and a final examination has to be passed.

To become a Messenger at Arms - an individual has to have been a Sheriff Officer for at least one year; have completed Messenger at Arms training; and passed a final examination.

Bailiffs in England do not have the same level of legal training or the same level of scrutiny as Sheriff Officers.

Through Scottish legislation, Sheriff Officers are generally ‘encouraged’ to be more reasonable with debtors.

I hope that this helps in your understanding of Sheriff Officers in Scotland.

[hallowitch]

In Scotland, the following are the correct designations.

 

Sheriffs - these are judges who sit in the Sheriff Courts throughout Scotland.

 

Sheriff Officers - these are officers of court whose remit is to serve

Sheriff Court summonses etc and to enforce Sheriff Court orders.

 

Messenger at Arms - these are officers of court whose remit is to serve Court of Session (the highest civil court in Scotland) and to enforce Court of Session court orders. The office of Messenger at Arms dates back to the 16 century.

 

Training to be a sheriff officer takes 3 years (although this can be reduced due to certain training exemptions i.e. previous legal training & experience) and a final examination has to be passed.

 

To become a Messenger at Arms - an individual has to have been a Sheriff Officer for at least one year; have completed Messenger at Arms training; and passed a final examination.

 

Bailiffs in England do not have the same level of legal training or the same level of scrutiny as Sheriff Officers.

 

Through Scottish legislation, Sheriff Officers are generally ‘encouraged’ to be more reasonable with debtors.

 

I hope that this helps in your understanding of Sheriff Officers in Scotland.

Thank you for this

[RaeUK]

Ditto, Joe. I'm continuing to like the Scottish system more than ours...

Rae.

[IdaInFife]

Just throwing this is for info for anyone that doesn't know

 

Up here in Ecosse we don't have bailiffs we have sheriff officers.

 

Get behind in your council tax you get a reminder, you don't pay that you get a final demand. If you don't pay that then the council apply for a summary judgement (similar to a LO). This is automatic and you cannot go to court to defend this and then the COUNCIL apply a 10% charge to that balance and your account is referred to a Sheriff Officer.

 

SO seem to be alot easier to deal with, the seem to accept very reasonable payment arrangements most of the time. They DO NOT want your stuff they prefer to have the money. They can not apply any more charges as the 10% the council add is to cover their fees.

 

If you still do not pay it, the SO will apply for a charge for payment. This gives you 14 days to send a time to pay order to the court where you can send in and i and e. If you do not then after 21 days from the charge for payment they SO will apply for a wages arrestment and or bank arrestment.

 

I have not heard of any forced entries now for over 5 years as they tend to go for arrestments or agree to payment arrangement.

 

I even know people on benefits who have webt throught this and have agreed for a SO to send a rep to receive payments at the door for as little as £3 per week.

 

Obviously the one draw back is the fees can be well over the frist and second fees for a baliff visit BUT the treatment of debtors seem to be far more respectful and a lot easier to deal with and not as scary.

 

Ida x

 

as requested from other thread