Jump to content

 

BankFodder BankFodder


nuke em

Being bothered by Debt Collectors/3rd Parties /Solicitors etc ? - SEND THEM THIS!

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1010 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Fair comment. Maybe furniture is pushing it a bit far lol. I'd be a wicked judge ;). But it certainly goes beyond just 'the property' and applies to a wider range of assets.

 

Particularly when dealing with a company as opposed to an individual.

 

M


________________________________________________________________

ALL unsolicited PMs and E-mails should be posted up - Not all on CAG are who they appear to be

 

 

My views are my own. If in doubt, seek professional advice. If I can help though, I will. CAG helped me!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was under the strange impression that we are all on the same side.

 

We must have an open mind.

 

I was here a long time ago when people said without any doubt that you could not challenge a credit agreement. lol.

 

I understand both sides of the coin.

 

The first law of the jungle divide and conquer.

 

The banks read these threads so tread with care or else that is another victory chalked up for them.

 

Constructive argument is great. Defeating each other on the same side is a gift to the enemy.

 

My own personal view is that between us we can and will win.

 

Thus all points good or different or bad must be viewed.

 

What we try and what works is what wins.

 

Not futile arguments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh dear... Cagbot's a busy bee tonight....

 

Love ya really Charley.... :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

more posts unapproved and final warning given on this thread to keep it civil


Please contact a member of the site team if you are offered help off the forum for a a paid or no win no fee service.

 

Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running

Click here to donate through PayPal (opens in a new window)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
does it work , can someone check please , either way , they will have a ccj

where are you all now any apologies, and i fully understand your sarcasism bec their a few odd peeps on here,

and although i am odd i aint that odd lol

bless em , they must of gone to bed !

 

Well I think it's quite funny. Anything to pee off a DCA raises a smile in my world.

 

If you have done what you said you've done i can't see any harm in it :D

 

M


________________________________________________________________

ALL unsolicited PMs and E-mails should be posted up - Not all on CAG are who they appear to be

 

 

My views are my own. If in doubt, seek professional advice. If I can help though, I will. CAG helped me!!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well I think it's quite funny. Anything to pee off a DCA raises a smile in my world.

 

If you have done what you said you've done i can't see any harm in it :D

 

M

thankyou and serious apologies to all for getting wound up , :cool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do find it strange that some of the most informed members on CAG are also some of the most sarcastic and rude on CAG as well.

 

Conspiracy theories? Lots of them doing the rounds, inc NWO, are they true many probably are so the sarccy comments will prob be shown to be misplaced. Why do we have more cctv than any other country in the world, inc North Korea and China, DNA database Why?

 

Why have governments bailed out the bankers, but wont help manufacturing or farming to the same extent? The rich have got richer and the poor have got poorer, how has that happened, by chance? Dont think so.

 

I'll go put my tin foil on and sit quietly while the "clever" folk talk.


Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do we have more cctv than any other country in the world, inc North Korea and China, DNA database Why?

 

Why have governments bailed out the bankers, but wont help manufacturing or farming to the same extent? The rich have got richer and the poor have got poorer, how has that happened, by chance? Dont think so.

 

 

Not much is down to chance Spartathisis.... Historically, the rich have always looked after themselves and laws have been created to make it easier for them to do it. Since the birth of the internet however, people have become more informed about what's really going on and have gained strength in numbers. CCTV? The underclass is growing and the middle-classes are getting worried.... without a clue what to do about it... hence the focus on street crime in the gov. controlled tabloid press.

 

Tin hat? I've probably got a few already.... but Social Policy is a real eye opener and can send you nuts at times....

Edited by PriorityOne

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well done, Priority! And you did it all without an estoppel or a lien in site!:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All

 

I find it very sad to find yet another thread full of spite and bickering. I found myself the victim of such appalling behaviour on another thread and I almost left CAG completely as it must be infested with disinformation, old hands who knew it all and yet know very little, so I post very little now. However I have stuck around for the good folks who have the same troubles as me. It is always the loudest insitent emphatic mouths to be really careful of. Remember we are all in the same boat and these so called knowalls either work for the "other side" or they are SO clever they have ended up just the same as the rest of us IN DEBT and trying to sort it. Banks/dca cases against us are evolving and becoming more sophisticated. They are still, at ground level, pretty stupid and inefficient but their arguments in law are moving on.

 

Social policy is a nightmare, but it is very pertinent to the situation we are all in and there are some good researchers on here who are looking very deeply at this area. I am not one as my researches are into a very narrow section of that whole wider picture.

 

We must get to know our opponent and his (lack of) principles, evolve with him then and only then can we win collectively and reliably using what is lawful to us. The weapons are there, it is up to us to use them wisely.

 

Lecture over.

 

oilyrag.:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can someone post a link, or copy, to a case which has gone in front of a judge and got won on the basis of the arguments given above? If yes, please supply case number, copy of judgment (if possible) or at least summary of the judge's findings. Not a win by default, mind, a real, proper, bona fide judgment, granting the claimant whatever it is he asked for on the basis of those arguments.

 

Until then, no cigar, sorry. We are getting dismissed as "people who don't understand the argument" or "sheep", which is patronising to say the least and considering the people who speak up "against", quite funny really if it weren't so insulting. For the record, I HAVE read and digested the arguments used (many times over the years, as this is one that keeps on reappearing), I DO understand the principles behind it, and I DO dismiss it as pie in the sky, empty rhetorics and sophistry of the highest order. I WILL apologise and admit I was wrong when proof is supplied as requested higher up.

 

Until then, my opinion for that's what it is, is that you can dress it up as much as you like in pseudo-legalese, it still doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Experienced CAGers rightly make comments on sweeping generalised claims that this or that will solve problems because they know it doesn't happen like that. Each problem has to be tackled uniquely and for a newcomer to have written the inaccurate, plagiarised letter (it was taken from other sites) posted as a carte blanche solution to problems would have been totally counter-productive in finding an appropriate solution for them. To invite newcomers to send such a letter when they are already out of their depth would have been gross folly. The poster's pedantic style thereafter annoyed some of the respondents with its claims of universality and effectiveness, for which there was no evidence, and some of the comments in reply were inappropriate but it is understandable that they they were made to protect other posters. I for one was hoping this thread would be removed because it is misleading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I missed the inappropriate comments. Damn. :razz:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with you Oilyrag.

 

Whilst I am not saying that the ideas put forward would work, I am saying I just do not know.

 

The other point is that whilst we are fighting between ourselves (divide and conquer) the enemy seems to have gathered ranks and become much more organised and sophisticated.

 

Pre test cases the template letters seemed to work and now they are totally dismissed by the enemy.

 

I can`t find anyone who can give a definitive answer about the actual meaning to Jo Public of the test cases. All have differing views and no strategy to counter attack.

 

Pre test case my opinion was that we had good strategy.

 

Now I do not believe we have a decent strategy at all.

 

Anything that did previously work in our favour seems to have been totally dismissed by the banks and the cretin DCA`s.

 

So if we must argue let it be constructive open minded and the target for us to again become as organised and sophisticated as the enemy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not aware that we have become disorganised and the Manchester test cases were about Secs 77/78 and what is acceptable as a copy of an agreement, which was already known to us - there is nothing new from Manchester. The law is as it always was - no agreement, no enforceable debt. As for standing together in the war, CAGers have always supported each other and that hasn't changed either, although these rallying calls are commendable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Jonoh1,

 

Your message is something that I have been trying to put over for a while. There are some very positive elements of the Waksman judgment that have to be exploited to the full for example paras 100 to 105 approximately, paras 204 plus in the summaries. This is profesional opinion of experts in the field.

 

However it must be said that there ARE elements here that are claimed to be "AUTHORITITIVE" who I looked to for good argument and exploitation of those things, will not examine anything that is remotely positve about anything new. The banks are moving against you and I in more sophisticated ways. Take a look at Humbleman on here and there are other examples if looked at closely.

 

Argument about the use of CAG templates has been used successfully against us. Why, guys this constant harking back to the old methods all of the time and the stifling of anything that raises a new issue and if you cannot win the argument this regular descent into sarcasm abuse and bickering and franky unacceptable egotistical "tip my scales because I am good" approach. Most of the regular argument being put forward here now is OLD HAT and the odds are moving very slowly against us. Hence new letters, more sophisticated argument needs putting in place. Stop plagiarising all the old ones ( and telling others to) we can read that all up in previous threads and the extremely good information provided on this site elsewhere.

 

Every case has to be dealt with individually as each is different with differing circumstances, DAMN IT the judges keep telling you so!!!

 

AND we have just logged the 500th call from Mercers/Calders et al so DO NOT tell me I don't know what I am talking about and that is despite letters both from here (CAG) and self researched and composed letters, formal solicitors letters and the serving of injunctions. Now tell me that the banks/dcas are heeding all of the old arguments and will obey the law, OFT guidelines and increasingly weakening stances taken on here.

 

So in the interests of ALL of the troubled people here if the "AUTHORITIVE" members would like to put forward some reasoned argument then I and many others would be happy to read and hark what you say, GLADLY SO.

 

I am not here to be divisive but please just hark a bit and think. The clever DCA is watching and delighting in what you are doing.

 

All written in the best interests of fellow caggers and new members and no way is intended to be offensive, just straight straight talking.

 

 

oilyrag.:)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am not aware that we have become disorganised and the Manchester test cases were about Secs 77/78 and what is acceptable as a copy of an agreement, which was already known to us - there is nothing new from Manchester. The law is as it always was - no agreement, no enforceable debt. As for standing together in the war, CAGers have always supported each other and that hasn't changed either, although these rallying calls are commendable.

 

 

The thread was titled "Being bothered by Debt Collectors/3rd Parties /Soli"

 

I agree the law is always as it was.

 

Please someone explain this to some of the D.J. Who deal in morality rather than the law (Humbleman)

 

Dealing with debt collectors and third parties is now a different ball game and this is proof positive.

 

What worked pre test case seems to be inadequate now.

 

This was certainly not a rallying call but a plea for strategy.

 

I do think cagers support each other but one would not think so from this thread. I believe in the past this site as provided excellent advice and service.

 

This is not the point and the point is dealt with in the title of the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Order To Win Any War, You Need To Fight A Few Battles First, Some Will Be Won , And Some Lost,

These Posts As A Group , Hopefully Will Indeed Help People Dealing With This Issue, And Also To The Many Authoritive Peolpe Just Might See Enough Information To Help Them Win The War, (if Ultimately Possible )using Bits Of Information From Each Loss And Win.

So Everyone Can Benefit , One Day Hopefully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not the point and the point is dealt with in the title of the thread.

But is it? I don't believe so, as my belief and opinions are that it won't work. Furthermore, a newbie trawling the site for the first time for help would be drawn like a moth to the flame to a thread with such a title, and the consequences if they were to do so without reading on could be terrifying.

 

Maybe because I missed the unapproved posts have I missed something important, but I see this thread as no different as many others, it's not one upmanship or bragging or egoes, it is people debating, discussing ideas, some which will work some which won't, and that is the way we have always done things on here. It has never been a site where a handful says: "this will work, do this" and shut up other ides, far from it. In fact, some of the most audacious schemes have come up dfrom all kind of different sources. On the other side, we have had the Rankines trying to tout their "we'll buy your debt" nonsense on here and they were discredited by regular CAGgers very quickly.

 

Without exchange of ideas, everything goes stale. That is not to say that every "new" idea is worthwhile, and that is why people use their opinion. In this particular instance, *I* don't think it viable and I have seen nothing to prove me wrong. All I have seen is people saying that they have had results, or implying that they will, but that's all. As I said in my previous post, based on my reading and understanding, it does hold up to scrutiny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bookie, Priority One, Pinky69 etc, I totally agree. Having requested the op on other threads not to recommend his alternative template letters to newcomers, he insinuated I was a troll. Last I looked there's no rickety bridge over my head :D

I've no problem with discussion and exporing new ideas, but where I become exasperated is when unproven methods are pushed at un suspecting newbies. Examine the ops "about me page" and you'll see numerous posts on newbie threads simply saying "Send them this!" and a link to the OPs template letter.

I believe that helping people on here demands more input than pushing links.Each problem needs a full and appropriate response. When those links are to unproven templates, it can affect the lives of those who come on here desperate for help. No wonder long time experienced Caggers become exasperated.

As Bookie says, the title of this thread (which reads like an ad in Exchange and Mart) draws the eye of the uninformed.

By all means continue the discussion (it can be quite entertaining!) but perhaps it would be better moved out of the Debt Collection forum to The Bear Garden and the title amended to include DISCUSSION ONLY.

Elsa x

(waiting for the German Shepherds to attack :rolleyes: )


PLEASE NOTE... I AM MOST SORRY BUT I HAVE VERY LIMITED AVAILABILITY AT THE MOMENT DUE TO EXTREME PRESSURE OF WORK - IF YOU REQUIRE URGENT HELP ON YOUR THREAD AND ARE GETTING NO RESPONSE PLEASE HIT THE TRIANGLE FOR SITE TEAM ASSISTANCE. ELSA XXX

 

Please check out my BLOG for the quick guide to debt threats - it has all the info & letter template links you need to get started on your journey of TAKING CONTROL. :roll:

 

All opinions are my own based on research. I am not legally qualified, if in doubt please consult a legal expert.

Hope this has helped or made you smile. Keep your chin up, you're among friends now! Elsa xxx

Please click the *star* of any CAG member who has helped you .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you feel the advice given on CAG is not relevant to you, you don't have to accept it, and we are all learning something all the time. The templates on site are constantly being reviewed and updated and just because creditors don't like them doesn't mean they have outlived their usefulness - far from it. A CCA request, SAR,Account in Dispute,Telephone Harrassment and Doorstep Callers can all be dealt with effectively with templates. There is a lot of anti CAG sentiment about and if people are just going to attack the site and posters then it is open to them to deal with their own problems in their own way and avoid CAG altogether.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point which I probably made badly was I do not know if this would work and it needs proof that it would even stand a chance.

 

What I do know from experience is that since Waksman it is an all new ball game dealing with DCA`s and third parties.

 

That which worked previously now does not and that is fact.

 

I was pointing out to Pinky the bit about dealing with DCA`s and that I was not stating the law had changed. Even though some D.J. appear to think it as. Neither was I advocating the use of this letter.

 

I just agree exchange of ideas is good but to evolve proper strategy is even better. Thus we look to the more experienced people to provide this direction.

 

An idea good or bad needs proper dissection and then it can be cast a side.

 

The answer is in the results of which I have seen no evidence.

 

The template letters worked previously with DCA`s now they don`t and that is fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Bookworm,

 

I can appreciate your comments. However how has your post moved things along please?

 

I am not saying Nuke-Em is correct at all. What I am saying is that there are people on here, myself included (and we have managed to get proper, not CMC, expert legal representation) who have found that the recognised "standard" arguments promulgated over and over again here on this site are NO LONGER working even before the Manchester LEAD cases and the subsequent judgement when used against persistent Banks/DCAs.

 

It is apparent to some that a fresh approach is needed. Many of us looked to a lead in several areas from more experienced caggers particularly those like yourself with a high "scales" rating. What we have experienced is a shower of derision, abuse and apparent free for all open day on anyone having the temerity to challenge the mantra trotted out by all those claiming to know much more than us mere mortals.

 

Please take it on board that the arguments ARE moving on, we are suffering as a result on a day to day basis and we need to turn these debates into positive lines of thought and subsequently into usable strategies that can be tailored to suit individual cases. Hence moving the consumer case forward.

 

I feely admit I don't have an answer, we have done just about all we can at this stage the ball is firmly with the alleged creditor, legally now cornered like a rat in trap, BUT it does NOT STOP the hassle.

 

This is not personal to you but to all those with plenty of scales scores we look to your experience for a way forward and trotting out the old mantras will not suffice. Their fundamental arguments are being eroded by the courts bit at a time on a daily basis, regardless of what the Law actually says. (perhaps we should insist on more reference to the ethics of Lord Denning Master of the Rolls and Lord Justice Argyle who believed rightly in the spirit of the law and not just its technicalities.

 

Best regards

oilyrag.:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DCAs never accepted the templates - they just ignore them. They are not and were never intended to be instant debt karma - there is no such thing. But then you move to the next stage of reinforcing why the template is correct and raising a legitimate complaint. The template is only the first stage of a dispute. There is a long way to go after that and always has been.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pinky please explain how these work any more A CCA request, Account in Dispute,

 

We have all agreed that since Waksman it is very easy for them to pass anything off for 77/78. Then it is satisfied hence the account is no longer in dispute.

 

All I am saying is that since Waksman these do not appear to work.

 

What you seem to be saying is I am not interested if you don`t like it then go away. I have never attacked any poster or the site.

 

Yet is obvious to a blind man that certain things have changed.

 

It is the change in attitude of the DCA`s we have to deal with or the floodgates to abuse are again open.

 

This was what this excellent site previously helped to stop in most cases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...