breach of confidentiality

[silverbird_9t9]

then there are the files that they have said have been opened, unencrypted using software as they had passwords and then deleted, even if they come back with dates and times there is no way i could say where i was at any minute as my times not logged in that way

 

Presumably, if such software has been loaded onto a computer, there would be traces of it. If the software was loaded onto another machine it's a fair argument that you are hardly likely to leave incriminating evidence for others to find. Also, it could be worth comparing the logs of activity on your manager's login and those of anyone else who has administrative privileges. If activity ceased on their logins at the time of the unauthorised access and recommenced immediately afterwards, it could suggest that someone used your machine when you left it unattended.

[goonerhenry]

if it was my boss then we have remote control software that enables us to take control of a computer as if logged in as that user, so he could be sitting at his computer and actually working on mine, i have asked for the times these files were opened but again cant prove that i was or wasnt at my desk, so its still looking quite grim to be honest, i did have a word with the HR woman and she said that if i did resign it wouldnt go on my record although if a future employer asked if i had anything pending then they would have to tell them, plus its unlikely they will give me a reference no matter what, one other thing, the director that has accused me of this is actually the director that is giving the discilplinary, is that allowed as he cant really be biast if he already thinks im guilty? also i did mention the fact that he had told the receptionist everything about my disciplinary and the HR woman said that basicly he is allowed to do as he likes and can tell anyone, especially someone that may have to deal with me if i tried to enter the building

[elpulpo]

If the Director is the person making the accusation, he shouldn't be party to the decision to dismiss you. That's a breach of natural justice.

[goonerhenry]

does that help me in anyway as i still have to prove it wasnt me

[goonerhenry]

the more i look at this the more it looks like a stich up, basicly the director who is doing the disipliniary has a suspision i was looking at confedential files, so he asked the group it director to increase logging, he then sent 3 files to another director, it looks like they were opened on my pc shortly after they were sent, then unencrypted to remove a password, as the site that was used want you to pay for the service it only revels 10 or so lines so you only get to so much information and they were only 4 peoples bonuses being shown, one of them being mine, to be honest i just feel as though i have been shafted, i have found a few holes in their evidence but i dont think its enough to prove to them i didnt do it, especially if they already think im guilty, i know allot of you have said if i was inocent i should fight it all the way, but i cant prove i wasnt at my desk when this happens and so cant prove it wasnt me and from what i can make out thats all they need to sack me, which would again add a gross misconduct charge to my employment record, meaning that no one would touch with a barge pole, anyones opinion on what they think would be best to do would be appreciated

[elpulpo]

As I've said before, I'm no computer geek, sorry, I mean expert:p. So you might have to humour me a bit.

Would it be reasonable to say, that someone with your level of expertise in computers would be well aware, when doing what they are alleging you did, that you would get caught?

For example, someone like me might go on a PC, have a sneaky look at hirsutehoneys.com, and then think that as long as I delete this and that, no one will ever know.

Only then to have worldofwarcraftwayne from IT to come along and within a few moments of right-clicking and pressing F3 he knows exactly what I've been up to.

What I'm trying to get at is, why would you have been so stupid to do what they're alleging? What were you likely to gain by your actions?

 

Like you say, if you know you didn't do it, and you can't imagine your boss did it, about the only rational explanation left is that you're being stiched up here. That's why I asked if perhaps there are redundancies looming (I think I asked that, didn't I?). You've been there a long time, might be on a good wack if it's an IT job.

It's cheaper to fire you than pay you off. It's certainly not unheard of.

 

Only you can decide if you should resign.

I think what you need to argue, if you are going to fight, is-

 

1. I didn't do it. I've been here a long time, never put a foot wrong. I would expect that you trust me and take my long, unblemished service into consideration.

2. Why would I have done it?

3. What damage has this caused anyway? Has the company lost a lot of money because of this?

Edited January 7, 2010 by elpulpo

[Uncertain]

First of all, beware of HR departments! Despite the impression they often try to give they are employed by the firm to "protect" them from their employees!

 

There are one or two good ones (for example some who give advice on here) but the majority are jumped up, poorly qualified pen pushers who have a chip on their shoulder feeling that they should be a solicitor but couldn't make it.

 

Anyway, to the issue in hand.....

 

I do not agree with the suggestion about making a complaint about the director telling the receptionist. As you are suspended (supposedly a neutral action) and not allowed to enter the building (their right) it is not unreasonable for her to be informed. I think making such a complaint would serve to make anybody with an open mind think worse of you.

 

I do agree however, if you could show that even one of these logins happened when you were somewhere else, it would be a huge help.

 

I would not resign unless you have a legal undertaking as to an agreed reference. Vague assurances are worthless. This is normally part of a compromise agreement where you agree to go quietly and to give up almost all of your legal rights in exchange for some money and an agreed reference. You have to be legally advised for a CA to be valid.

 

If this is a "stitch up" I would take some professional advice. It may be you could involve the police? The misuse of computer systems can be a criminal offense and it may be this would make the firm think twice.

 

Do you have access to free legal advice (home / car insurance / trade union / professional association)? Otherwise it may be cheaper in the long run to pay a week or two's salary for the right advice.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Uncertain

[Uncertain]

I also meant to add.....

 

You said in a earlier post that your immediate boss knew your password? If so, providing you can prove this and you have not broken any rules by letting this happen, then it follows there is just as much chance that he accessed the files. Whether or not you think the individual WOULD do this is neither here nor there. What matters is that they COULD have done so just as easily as you.

 

Somewhere I used to work we were required to leave a note of our password in a signed and sealed envelope. In the even of a problem in our absence, the Director could instruct that the envelope be opened but this would of course prove that this had happened. It also stopped people using poor passwords like their cat's name or child's birthday!

 

Many years ago, in the early days of PCs, somebody said that a computer was like an unlocked filing cabinet with a built in photo copier. How true!

Edited January 7, 2010 by Uncertain

[goonerhenry]

thanks for your comments, as i have said before my main problem is that i cant prove where i was at the time the files were opened, yes my boss has my password and had the time to access my computer, but i dont think this is enough to change their minds, i feel any tribunal would look at the evidence and unfortunatly side with the company

[Uncertain]

thanks for your comments, as i have said before my main problem is that i cant prove where i was at the time the files were opened, yes my boss has my password and had the time to access my computer, but i dont think this is enough to change their minds, i feel any tribunal would look at the evidence and unfortunatly side with the company

 

I don't entirely agree. If you can prove he had your password then he could have accessed these files just as easily as you?

 

Can you tell from the system which computer (as opposed to account) was used as this may provide some evidence?

 

Would a forensic examination of the hard disk on you computer provide any help? Presumably some traces / temp files would be written to the local machine?

 

If you know that you are not in any way at fault (apart from possibly not locking your machine) I would be tempted to call their bluff. Insist on an independent examination of your computer or, quite seriously, threaten to call the police in. If somebody has been "hacking" and / or trying to set you up then this is potentially criminal.

[honeybee13]

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, or this is repetition, but isn't an employer meant to have a reasonable belief that something wrong has been done?

[Uncertain]

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, or this is repetition, but isn't an employer meant to have a reasonable belief that something wrong has been done?

 

 

Yes, quite so.

 

If the OP's boss had his password it could just as easily have been him. Are the firm treating both the same? No, so why not?

 

Did the boss give the password to anybody else?

 

Is the system as secure as they like to think? If not, this is presumably more the fault of the OP's boss if he is in charge of IT.

 

Keystroke logging software? CCTV with a view of keyboards?

 

Finally, how easy would the OP's password be to guess? (Hobbies, children, pets, birthdays etc etc) Does the system log failed attempts?

[goonerhenry]

sorry for the delayed response, a few questions to catch up on, the evidence i have been given does not show which computer the email accounts were accesed from but it does show the files were accesed from my computer, i have had the screenshots sent through again with times the files were accessed and it shows times that i cant prove if i was away from my desk, although one of the screenshots shows that one of the files has been accessed while i was suspended, so again im in limbo as will they just explain this as being done when they are carrying out their investigation, i also use msn to chat to my wife, it does show that my account is currently logged in which means that my computer is logged in as me at this momment in time so again why would they do this unless they are still searching for more evedience, as for the foresnsic examination, yes it might show up temp files of a remote control session but if it was my boss then he could have quite easily used my actual machine, many times i have come back to my desk to find him sitting there, but again is any of this enough to sway it my way as they seem to suspect me stright away

[goonerhenry]

just relooked at the screen shots again, i have two copies of the one that has been accessed since i was suspended, one doesnt show the dates and times the files was accessed but does show the computers time which was 16.23 on the 4/1, the second one shows the dates and times the file was accesed, this is 16.43 on the 4/1, so i dont really think that could be much help as it was obvious the computer was being investigated at the time, plus no one in their right mind would try and access the files to try and plant more evidence when they knew the computer was being investigated

[silverbird_9t9]

Why on earth would they send screenshots of them accessing the files from your login during their investigation? It does not prove your guilt but rather demonstrates the manner in which someone else could have accessed your login. Perhaps they did not expect you to examine them in such detail.

[goonerhenry]

true but it it enough, not necessairly for them but for a tribunal