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Couldn't agree more BRW, which is why it's so important to get the pitch right, and it has to be directed at politicians.

 

Don't get me wrong YB, I'll be delighted if the OFT come up with the answers, but while they're mulling things over, people are still being ripped off.

 

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The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Couldn't agree more BRW, which is why it's so important to get the pitch right, and it has to be directed at politicians.

 

Don't get me wrong YB, I'll be delighted if the OFT come up with the answers, but while they're mulling things over, people are still being ripped off.

 

The OFT are consulting with all interested groups. I've yet to see if CAG have taken the opportunity to be involved or not since all other groups have given feedback as to their meetings and will undoubtedly continue to do so as per the OFT announcement as of 22nd December 2009.

Are you saying that £5 for an unpaid item is a rip off(which RBS Group currently charge)?

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Are you saying that £5 for an unpaid item is a rip off(which RBS Group currently charge)?

 

On it's own it seems more acceptable than previously, but when added to the £20 monthly maintenance charge and high interest rate if over the overdraft limit due to an "informal request", then yes I am.

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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On it's own it seems more acceptable than previously, but when added to the £20 monthly maintenance charge and high interest rate if over the overdraft limit due to an "informal request", then yes I am.

 

What if it wasn't because there cannot be as such a grey area. For example, someone has an item bounced that doesn't cause the maintenance charge, is that a rip off?

 

Caro, you can see what I am saying, if the wording of a petition is simply saying rip off charges then you lose people who say, not all charges are a rip off so why should I support this?

At the moment, the issue is why should I support anything that is about either avoidance of commitments or that is simply a loophole. If you can word something that avoids this kind of thing then you can get a broad support. If the wording is "rip off/extortionate" charges then you lose the chance for widespread support and leave the door open for the government to respond very generically. If you can avoid a generic response then the petition will be worth it.

For example, the bank charges charter had 70,000+ people sign it(I wasn't one of them btw) but you need numbers and something that many people would agree with post SC decision.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Petition signed. As for a public event, I favour a day of leafleting outside every UK bank in the Country, choose your favorite bank. All on the same day and time of course. Cag can design a leaflet and we all print off as many as we can afford and just give them out and answer questions. I am sure a few towns will have some celebrity individuals concerned, some will be local celebs others may be national celebs, who knows.

 

Is there the right day. Gordon Browns birthday? Anniversary of Bank of England? D Day? April 1st?

 

Slogan? Why I hate banks more than Hitler? What an awful thing to say and I dont mean it. But you cant help but read it and then feel angry. Slogans can be powerful, but must be carefully chosen not to offend, so I highlight my slogan as an example of going too far but does pack a punch.

 

I think the action should be pin point focused and only cover the simple idea that every body in the country also hates banks.

 

We could have a questionaire.

 

a) I hate banks

b) I dont hate banks

Edited by Its WAR

Its WAR

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"The point is that if, and I mean IF, the law says that bank charges are fair then the law needs to be changed"

 

This is IMHO the most obvious (and easily solved) problem we face in this country. Other countries have no problems having laws which don't permit ridiculous (and extortionate) payment processing fees charged by the like of Ryanair (Germany I believe) or the whole penalty charges kind of thing (Ireland & Germany I believe).

 

I have no problem with companies offering discounts to entice me to pay by direct debit, I believe it is fundamentally wrong to charges a 'service' fee if I refuse to give them unfettered access to my bank account.

 

I see no reason why the proposed legislation cannot be retrospective. Much is made of the fact that laws do not generally apply retrospectively BUT no Parliament can bind its successor. We could repeal the USA's independence. Clearly not practical but permitted by the constitution.

 

Finally I believe aside from the issues surrounding the amount of the charges the single biggest point which MUST be corrected is what in the name of GOD are banks allowed to appoint themselves priority creditor?

 

I have recently discovered even the taxman no longer does this to bankrupt individuals.

 

This argument has particular force given the banks somehow persuading the courts the charges are service fees. Invoice seperately for them then.

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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Now as to what to do as above pressure on the political parties to nail thier colours to the mast and introduce legislation post hast to outlaw such penalties going forward.

 

With regards to my brothers claim I don't really think it would be fair to have all the charges back with interest, but say the difference between what was applied and the £5 they currently charge yeah I'd go for that.

 

The rules relating to hardship during the test case were vague and poorly policed (the FOS even commented that banks weren't taking hardship cases seriously). But you don't even really need rules to identiy when someone is in hardship. The truth is nobody really even looks at the account, if they did they'd see JSA or some other meagre benefit and conclude that £100's or £1000's worth of charges would cripple that person finanancially for life.

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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Petition signed. As for a public event, I favour a day of leafleting outside every UK bank in the Country, choose your favorite bank. All on the same day and time of course. Cag can design a leaflet and we all print off as many as we can afford and just give them out and answer questions. I am sure a few towns will have some celebrity individuals concerned, some will be local celebs others may be national celebs, who knows.

 

Is there the right day. Gordon Browns birthday? Anniversary of Bank of England? D Day? April 1st?

 

Slogan? Why I hate banks more than Hitler? What an awful thing to say and I dont mean it. But you cant help but read it and then feel angry. Slogans can be powerful, but must be carefully chosen not to offend, so I highlight my slogan as an example of going too far but does pack a punch.

 

I think the action should be pin point focused and only cover the simple idea that every body in the country also hates banks.

 

We could have a questionaire.

 

a) I hate banks

b) I dont hate banks

 

If you want mass appeal then all consumer groups should support it. With regards to protesting outside banks/handing leaflets out, you have to be careful that it is authorised otherwise you can get into trouble. There has been discussion on leafleting outside banks before on CAG.

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Now as to what to do as above pressure on the political parties to nail thier colours to the mast and introduce legislation post hast to outlaw such penalties going forward.

 

With regards to my brothers claim I don't really think it would be fair to have all the charges back with interest, but say the difference between what was applied and the £5 they currently charge yeah I'd go for that.

 

The rules relating to hardship during the test case were vague and poorly policed (the FOS even commented that banks weren't taking hardship cases seriously). But you don't even really need rules to identiy when someone is in hardship. The truth is nobody really even looks at the account, if they did they'd see JSA or some other meagre benefit and conclude that £100's or £1000's worth of charges would cripple that person finanancially for life.

 

I was on JSA for 3 months and didn't incur one single charge. I wish you wouldn't label people on benefits as being in financial hardship because it does not correlate that someone on JSA is in financial hardship. Someone who has had their income drop and ARE still working can be in financial hardship. In fact, financial hardship payouts continue to occur since the banks still have to consider hardship cases under BCOBS and the lending code(section 9).

With regards to making law retrospectively, let's go for the death penalty and kill a few people since it will save some money. Any law has to be fair to both seller and buyer(not saying that it is now at the moment) but it cannot be one sided cos we don't like the agreement.

However, the issue of the right of set off is one that does need action over since their is no set rules that certain payments can be protected from being set off, ie benefit payments like JSA, DLA etc,etc,

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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Hello caro!

 

No problem at all, it wasn't a criticism of your efforts.

 

My concern is we have perhaps a golden chance here to make a difference, the best one we have had in perhaps decades. We need to give it our best shot while we have the chance.

 

Here is why:

 

  • There is a General Election looming.

 

  • The Economy is in deep recession and could yet go a lot deeper, or we may see an engineered false-hope recovery with serious inflation (pump that much number-money in and prices will be affected once that number-money finally starts working its evil magic).

 

  • The banks are the cause of this, not the people nor real businesses (banks and most of the financial groups living off the Nation do not count as businesses).

 

  • The resident crop of politicians have demonstrated their true self-serving and dishonest tendencies.

 

  • The Courts have demonstrated a reluctance to support the people.

 

  • The Regulators have demonstrated a bias towards the banks, and a reluctance to support the people.

 

  • The DCAs are out of control and causing real misery. People who can make a difference (such as comedians like Michael McIntyre who have a huge potential audience) are now increasingly aware of this, some having suffered this at first hand.

 

  • The people behind the banks, financial organisations and the politicians themselves, are a very small minority compared to the Nation as a whole. The new obscene banking Phoenix profits and huge greedy banking bonuses now popping back up on the scope are angering millions.

 

  • The political parties are almost indistinguishable from one another, none are showing any real desire for change that will benefit the people who they hope will re-elect them.

 

I feel that if we concentrate upon some core issues albeit simplistic ones, rather than getting bogged down with specific technical areas that will only serve to make most people go all distant and blank, then it might be possible to set something in motion that might just gather momentum. Once rolling, then the core simplistic issues may gather up the more specific and complex issues as the larger ball becomes unstoppable.

 

I honestly do not know who to vote for. The major Parties are not saying the right things, and whilst some of the smaller Parties are, there are some strings attached that many will not accept.

 

The next General Election is in danger of being either a damp squib, or a messy hung Parliament. Unless someone, somewhere starts something, then things will carry on as before. We need to get it across to the egotists that people want and need some real changes. If we let them revert to the existing system, then the engineered banking swings will get bigger and deeper. We will be destined to wobble alarmingly from false boom to real bust until we own nothing and owe everything.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

You have got this sewn up in one there my friend. The above points are the ones we need to be VERY aware of. Identify and Try to take the legs from under the beast will eventually topple it. War strategies will work just as well in this situation because as we all know, we are at "war" with this nest of Vipers.

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Caro - thanks for guiding me here from the Swift Advances pages. A suggestion for a petition:

 

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to initiate legislation to exclude charges by banks for unauthorised overdrafts from Clause 6(2)b of the UTCCRs 1999.

 

or similar???

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Caro - thanks for guiding me here from the Swift Advances pages. A suggestion for a petition:

 

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to initiate legislation to exclude charges by banks for unauthorised overdrafts from Clause 6(2)b of the UTCCRs 1999.

 

or similar???

 

You could get behind this campaign - Unfair bank charges - take action - Which? Campaigns

.

FSA Waiver on Bank Charges:http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Doing/Regulated/Notify/Waiver/pdf/dir_quart_0709.pdf

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"I was on JSA for 3 months and didn't incur one single charge. I wish you wouldn't label people on benefits as being in financial hardship because it does not correlate that someone on JSA is in financial hardship. Someone who has had their income drop and ARE still working can be in financial hardship. In fact, financial hardship payouts continue to occur since the banks still have to consider hardship cases under BCOBS and the lending code(section 9).

With regards to making law retrospectively, let's go for the death penalty and kill a few people since it will save some money. Any law has to be fair to both seller and buyer(not saying that it is now at the moment) but it cannot be one sided cos we don't like the agreement.

However, the issue of the right of set off is one that does need action over since their is no set rules that certain payments can be protected from being set off, ie benefit payments like JSA, DLA etc,etc,"

 

I did not mean to suggest that everyone on benefits is in financial hardship, rather I was making a point about the banks. Even Virgin Media, who IMO are one of the most inept companies out thier, will stop my phone making calls if it goes over a pre determined limit (this is determined by them not me although I could set it lower). Banks do not do it, because the charges are slapped on by a machine.

 

Even when you complain I doubt anybody really looks at the account they just send a standard response.

 

I think the example of the death penalty is a poor one. I fully understand WHY changes to the law are not usually retrospective but the possibility is nonetheless open. For example in the case of MP's expenses, where huge syms involved would suggest to any reasonable person they were taking the mikey (to put it politely) still some MP's object.

 

In that particular case I think rules SHOULD be applied retrospectively and I would see the issue of bank charges as a similar issue. People's lives have, and continue to be, devastated by these charges. It simply is not good enough to make the banks tidy up their act a litte (and begrudginly) and assume alls right with the world.

 

One of Natwest's old charges is equivalent to around one weeks JSA, I think that would cause a problem for must unemployed people if they had no savings.

 

There are, unfortunately, several different issues to tackle. One is the amount of the charges, another is the way they are applied, and the other is that as some have stated the contract we 'consent' to is forced on us in as much as they are all pretty much the same so we have to accept one if we want to get paid ever.

 

I can accept that many people on low incomes are not in financial hardship, as they can and do meet thier essential financial commitments as they become due. However my main concern in this is the spiral that occurs very suddenly to so many people.

 

As I have suggested before this could be avoided if the banks invoiced seperately for the charges. In fact if I could change one thing it would be that.

 

Also on the subject of law would I be right in saying some other countries have much better laws (from the point of view of the customer) in terms of what businesses can and can't charge for? As a (so called) developed country why can't we get it right when it comes to consumer protection?

 

Oh finally one last thing banks MUST be forced with heavy penalties if necessary to live up to the commitments they make in thier own literature to respond positively and sympathetically to people suffering hardship.

 

Last of all I'll just say I'm up for some campaigning and will help in anyway I can.

The views I express here are mere speculation based on my experience. I am not qualified nor insured to give legal advice and any action you take will be at your own risk.

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Looks like Which? agree that it's worth lobbying for a change in the law too and I've completed the form.

 

Had an email from my MPs office today asking for my postal address for his reply.

 

For those who'd like to contact their own, there's a list of them here with contact details. UK Parliament - Alphabetical list of MPs

 

I quite agree with you regarding the spiral indebtstudent. The longer people have to manage on a low income the harder it is to cope, especially when, for example, kids need shoes, appliances breakdown and need repairing or replacing, pipes burst in cold weather or the heating packs up (if you can afford to run it). These things are hard enough to cope with, without the banks taking the mick.

Edited by caro
typo

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I sent my claim off in November, had 2 acknowledgements in December with an I&E form to complete. Having not responded, I today received this letter which looks very much like a standard template letter with the date as January 2010 !

 

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo349/AA99/NATIONWIDE/NWresponseJan2010.jpg

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Hi everyone:)

 

There was a thread started just after the Supreme Court decision in November advocating a peaceful protest march - I think it was Renegotiation who started it - but it didn't meet with much enthusiasm I'm afraid...........

 

Landy x

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Hi all

I bank with the Halifax & Lloyds, the latter is the problem with 3 A/c in dispute & money owed to me. If OFT lost the case in court with the test case & the courts think charges are right, What test case & bank was used? Is it only Lloyds that charge £200 per month charges because I know the Halifax dont. Why cant the test case be one from Lloyds like mine? which only started with me going over my £100 overdraft by £20, so in my mind my debt to them is £120 instead it has snowballed to £1345, & now sine 25 Nov 09 they are becoming heavy handed & sending solicitors letters.

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The 3 main parties all said payment should be swift and automatic if charges were ruled unfair. I can't help but wonder if that means they expected them to be ruled unfair, or if they were just trying to score points with voters, because of course we'll be having a general election this year, and for me the issue of bank charges should be right up there at the top of the agenda. We need to make sure it is.

 

We can all lobby our own MPs individually, writing letter, emailing, meeting them at their constituency surgeris, which are all good things to do. But we also need to get the media to pay more attention, which in turn will get all the candidates attention, and get them to tell us what they're going to do to stop the banks taking our money!

 

Demonstration, rally, poster campaign. Let's have your ideas and get bank charges on the agenda and in the media. The election will be within 6 months so we haven't got time to rest on our laurels.

 

This is Post #1 in this thread.

 

Nearly 3 weeks ago.

 

Anybody got any updates?

 

I need to be pointed in the direction of a Lib Dem ally - please?:cool:

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I need to be pointed in the direction of a Lib Dem ally - please

 

Vince Cable would be my choice ..... he knows what the banks are like and he's a fair-minded man ......

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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This is Post #1 in this thread.

 

Nearly 3 weeks ago.

 

Anybody got any updates?

 

I need to be pointed in the direction of a Lib Dem ally - please?:cool:

 

I can't help but feel that if we formed an alliance with one party, we could potentially put off supporters of other parties.

 

I found this interesting.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-charges-finance-industry/243291-billy-bragg-protest-against.html#post2714995

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I see Boris Johnson objects to bank bonuses too.

 

Cut 'excessive' bonuses, Boris Johnson tells bank chiefs | News

 

What's Best for You?

 

 

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

Smile £1,075.50 + interest Email request for payment 24/5/06 received £1,000.50 14/7/06 + £20 30/7/06

Yorkshire Bank Moneyclaim issued 21/6/06 £4,489.39 full settlement received 26 January 2007

:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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