Does anyone work in the jobcentre or has worked in there?

[RoundTable]

Hello

 

I just wondered if anyone worked or works in a jobcentre? The reason I ask is that you know when you apply for Income support or jobseekers allowance and you tell them all your savings information? Is that information about all your savings then available to be seen by a member of the jobcentre staff who type in your name and address into the system? I think thats terrible if thats true as I only would want my bank knowing my personal savings information.

 

Thanks

[ErikaPNP]

The information you give will only be available for viewing by the people who have access to that area of the database; in similar circumstances to a private company which may hold your details. The people who have access will only be people who need to know the information necessary to tasks they undertake in the course of their employment.

 

Every person who works in government, be it local or central have a chipped card which is inserted into the computer before they can use it. Every area of the database they access is logged for security purposes. A member of staff who accesses a record must be able to prove (if requested) that the record was accessed legitimately and in line with a task they have undertaken necessary to government business. If this cannot be proven, the member of staff would be subject to disciplinary procedures, which can include the termination of their employment.

 

The savings information is necessary to the processing of your claim, as the sum of savings a person has can affect their entitlement to benefit. It can also be used for data matching if you apply for other benefits. Thus it must be recorded on the computer system. It can only be accessed though, as explaiend above. A person can't go into a record just to be nosey.

 

All JCP employees are bound by the Data Protection Act (longer serving members of staff will have signed the Official Secrets Act), and have to comply with it just like any other business.

 

There are some employees of JCP who are members here and may be able to give you more information than I can. You could also submit a freedom of information request to the Department of Work and Pensions, which would provide you with a more comprehensive answer as to whom can access the info, why, how and what type of info is held on a claimant.

 

If you want to submit an FOI request there is a form here

 

Address:

 

Department for Work and Pensions

Central FoI Team

2nd Floor

The Adelphi

1-11 John Adam Street

London

WC2N 6HT

 

Email: [email protected].

 

(no spaces in the email address)

[RoundTable]

Thanks for your reply.

 

You know how when you go into the job centre and they access your information and it has your name, dob, address, type of driving lisence etc, well is there also a part of that which shows how much you have in your savings which you would have given when you applied for benefits which the member of staff working in a job centre can see at their finger tips?

 

Or can how much you have in savings only be accessed by a certain department as your savings is a very private thing?

 

My 2nd questions is also I asked for my information to be made case sensitive so that anyone working for the job centre who went to access my information had to get permission from a supervisor as my information would be blocked when they typed in my personal detials of NS number and a supwervisor would have to then unblock my information and the emplyee would have to give reason to be wanting to view my informaiton.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Micah777

[ErikaPNP]

You record would only be made case sensitive in certain circumstances. I couldn't tell you what the Jobcentre employees can see on screen, as I have never seen a "benefit computer". I've only seen screen prints that have been requested for specific information. We have some members who work for DWP but I think most of them are in processing sites, not jobcentres. You would be better off asking the Jobcentre directly or submitting an FoI request

[heliosuk]

I'm due to sign on tomorrow so will have a look at what they hold and ask for a screen dump to be printed. It will be especially important for me tommorrow as wifey works part time and they have had trouble with this in the past so I think I will get it.

[RoundTable]

Helio,

 

Thanks that would be a massive help. As if you think about it even for anyone who when you sign on or just for your joe average who works in the job centre if they can see exactly how much you have in savings and your bank etc thats really unfair. Fair enough you have to give that info when you make a claim but if it's then entered so that when someone signs you on in a job centre along with being able to see your name/address/DOB etc they have your bank balance etc etc right there too. That information I think should be more private and only a certain department should have access to that information I think.

 

I remember the last time I signed on they had a screen which she showed me that showed my name/address/my recent job searches/type of driving license and there was a couple of different pages but I cant remember seeing if it showed my bank balance and how much I had in savings etc though.

 

But please let me know?

 

Thanks

[heliosuk]

I'll ask him/her to do it as tomorrow will be an odd one for me as wifey has been off for the break so the amount should change and I have an hour or so to kill before picking her up. Might send them running around in circles.

 

Could be a bit of fun actually in what actually is a depressing place with mostly incompetent staff.

[RaeUK]

I have to confess it's been a long long long long time since I had to worry about anyone knowing what savings I may have! But you do raise an interesting point over who can or cannot access what could be deemed as sensitive or personal information.

Helios, hi. Screen dump? I'm presuming the system you see at the Jobcentre is the same as I see on ESA? [As it's all the Jobcentre, but in my area I go to a different suite of offices as opposed to the Jobcentre itself]. And there are pages and pages and pages of gumpf my Pathways Advisor can go through about me! I suspect your modus operandi will be to discuss what personal finance records they have and ask for the appropriate screen dump? [Or, perhaps these days they can just print off everything they have about you. I don't know].

This has peeked my interest not, obviously, because of savings but due to the information they hold about my health, medication, what I can and cannot do etc. Whilst my Pathways Advisor does need to know all this I may not necessarily want every Tom, Dick or Harriet at the Jobcentre to be privy to such personal details.

I'll be interested to see how this thread develops...

Rae.

Edited January 4, 2010 by RaeUK
tie poo

[RoundTable]

Yes I too would be interested to know what heliosuk finds out tomorrow. Although I know he will have a hard time trying to get the awnsers.

 

I just think that what my savings are, what amount I have in my bank etc should only been seen by myself and someone at my bank. Fair enough if someone in processing has to see all that to calcuate my claim but if that information is then put on basic information any jobcentre member of staff can see when someone signs for instance on I think thats wrong and they dont need to know what savings I have and bank balance so that information should not be available for anyone to see other than someone who processes my claim in a office somewhere.

[heliosuk]

Well folks. What a revelation!!!

 

Today was good in that I got one of the good ones. A charming lady who had a sense of humour and was training an equally charming young lady. My request to sign on daily if they were there was turned down unfortunately. Still makes a change from the usual bunch of iddiots who ask if your job search over the last two weeks has been successful to which I reply well if it had been then I'd hardly be here would I.

 

Anyway very helpful in that apart from the "windows" based screens I asked to look at the others. She couldn't do the screen dump and pointed out that strictly speaking her "trainee" hadn't been fully trained or authorised as yet. It was her first day. She would continue if it was ok with me that she saw it. So good so far in that they are aware of data protection.

 

However what she showed me next was quite alarming and I hadn't given it any thought in the past.

 

The first screen she pulled up showed bank account numbers etc, my NI number and the amount I get. The next was a record of payments made and the next a record of requests I'd made.

 

I asked about the fact that given the info they had and she could see did it not alarm her that it was open to abuse. Fortunately, being one of the more intelligent ones she latched on to it and said "actually yes when you look at it" but we are all cleared for security.

 

Now I find this quite disturbing because on one screen alone it had the bank details, NI number and DOB. On the first screen (the windows one) it had my address and marital status. And......to cap it all.....there is a copy of your signature on the form you sign.

 

So I asked her about the original post in a roundabout way and they cannot see what is in your account, which you'd expect, or the amount of savings you have. Apparently the figures you see are those that were origionaly declared at the outset of the claim.

 

Now apparently, as you will know, the answer you give to the question "have there been any changes in your circumstances?" is what they use to update.

 

She did also point out that every record accessed is logged by the system and audited so if for example the trainee looked at me in the afternoon, if she could, it would be recorded. Sort of confirms PNP's earlier post.

 

I'm not too worried about it all though as there is nothing to hide with where my benefits go, it's all in the wifes name!

Was an interesting day though!

[RoundTable]

Hi,

 

Thanks so much for that. I most appreciate it. So am I right in thinking that when you went in today and they went through the different screens, no where showed your bank balance or amount you have in savings then, which is information you would have had to have provided them when you made your claim?

[MIKEY DABODEE]

The only figures that the department hold on any claim in respect to a customers saving are the ones that are provided when the claim is made, and it would look like this on screen

 

08 £150 NV

that means the customer has a current account with £150 in but that information is not verified, and they declared this when they made the claim.

 

They cant look into bank accounts as in access accounts, and if the savings dont go over 6K they dont usually ask for statements again unless a change of circumstances appears....

 

 

When I go into a bank the cashier has access to everything, direct debits, personel details, date of birth much more information, but thats life, I have to trust them and hope that my overdraft is in safe hands

Edited January 4, 2010 by MIKEY DABODEE

[heliosuk]

Well I couldn't see it and they don't have links to the banks other than which account to pay anything due. I did have a situation where we received a legacy which would have pushed us a bit over the limit you are allowed so got it paid into a family member account and we call it up in cash as and when so there is no trail.

 

My biggest concern would be that when you sign on, it's not exactly private now and when they turn the screen to show you what they are inputting most details are there to be seen in public so some scurrulous oik on the next desk could possibly clock this and given the amount of time when waiting to sign on, it's not beyond the realms of possibility for the oik to lift the pack. So not only does oik see account details, oik knows address, DOB, NI and has a copy of signature. All in the public view.

 

Admittadely there are CCTV cameras over every desk as well and my JCP is one of the nicer ones without chairs chained to the floor but it does raise some interesting questions about security.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Well you may not have seen the money screen but it is there on every claim, and its so basic and just gives the totals of all declared capital held and in most cases that screen would not be visited again so worry not

 

but your Signing on point thats different, I agree with you there to a degree

[RoundTable]

OK Mikey are you saying that my account savings and my account balance that I declared I had when I made my claim are in front of the person who signs me on?!!! thats totally shocking! And not on!

Edited January 5, 2010 by RoundTable

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Your claim on sceen would have a money screen as I have described but why would they want to access it when you sign on, there is no need, they would have to enter another dialogue, its not part of the process and I doubt they would have the inclination or time.

 

Housing benefit have the same information, why are you worried,

dont be am sure you have nothing to worry about

Edited January 5, 2010 by MIKEY DABODEE

[MelissaTeddyBear]

So RoundTable you have decided that the person who works at the Jobcentre and who goes out to earn a living and pay their taxes is an oik. How illuminating.

 

From the Compact Oxford English Dictionary

 

• noun informal an uncouth or obnoxious person.

[heliosuk]

Teddy Bear, I think Round Table has mis read my post slightly in that when referring to an oik, I was referring to another person signing on, not the JCP staff. However, as you are kind enough to have supplied reknowned (and pardon the pun) definition of an oik, then yes, unfortunately some of the staff I've come across could be defined as oiks, as are obnoxious, rude, lack knowledge, fail to follow procedure, incompetent and frankly shouldn't be there. Fortunatly though they are a very small minority.

[MelissaTeddyBear]

Heliosuk

 

Agreed there are a small minority who do from time to time fit the description of an oik as ee-bee has found. You mention about staff failing to follow procedure :-

 

I did have a situation where we received a legacy which would have pushed us a bit over the limit you are allowed so got it paid into a family member account and we call it up in cash as and when so there is no trail.

 

Pot meet kettle.

[heliosuk]

 

Pot meet kettle.

 

Sorry Teddy Bear, I don't think it comes anywhere near it given the shear incompetence of the service.

[RoundTable]

OK well I spoke to a manager today at the job centre and they told me that the screen that has the information as to what you declared your bank balance and savings to be were on a private other screen that would have to be accesed with certain passwords as opposed to the screen that comes up when you sign on etc. Also that screen with your bank balance on is only seen by the staff at a certain other department who are not based in the job centre. Also I was told that if a member of staff accesed this other screen that has a customers bank balance on it would automatically flag/alert a manager and show that this person is accessing a customers details that they dont need to be.

 

I was also informed that no-one in the jobcentre staff can access a persons private informatiom with JUST a name and address either.

 

Ohh and Melissa I had never actually heard of the word Oink Before and was just copying it from another post and presumed it meant something like a 'Chappie' or a 'Geezer'!? I in no way would ever refer to a member of Job Centre staff ever as something meaning an obonoxious person even if that person was.

Edited January 5, 2010 by RoundTable

[MIKEY DABODEE]

OK well I spoke to a manager today at the job centre and they told me that the screen that has the information as to what you declared your bank balance and savings to be were on a private other screen that would have to be accesed with certain passwords as opposed to the screen that comes up when you sign on etc. Also that screen with your bank balance on is only seen by the staff at a certain other department who are not based in the job centre. Also I was told that if a member of staff accesed this other screen that has a customers bank balance on it would automatically flag/alert a manager and show that this person is accessing a customers details that they dont need to be.

 

Did you ask the question direct to the manager ?

 

Anyway what ever he told you or didnt as explained before there has to be a buisness reason to access any part of a claim.

There are strict security rules and guidlines that are followed at all times

Edited January 5, 2010 by MIKEY DABODEE

[heliosuk]

It would therefore seem that they do have access but it's very well controlled, but they only have access to what you have declared at start of claim which is marked NV unless you get a visit like another post.

 

However, my hypothetical "oik" situation still stands as regards being able to assume an identity to access bank accounts or even open them just from what can be seen and heard in public.

 

The easy way to do this is by placing a screen between desks so the "hypothetical oik" on my right or left cannot correlate the info the "oik" hears with what the "oik" might be in a position to see.

[RoundTable]

Did you ask the question direct to the manager ?

 

Anyway what ever he told you or didnt as explained before there has to be a buisness reason to access any part of a claim.

There are strict security rules and guidlines that are followed at all times

 

Hi Mikey,

 

Well the main thing that I was told was that a member of staff in the jobcentre is 'Unable' to access someones information with just a name and address, but was told they need other information but was told by the manager that they are unable to disclose what other information they need to have also. So for me if someone working in the job centre was to put in my name and address it would not allow them to bring up ANY details on me.

 

Yep, I asked the manager directly.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Am glad you spoke to the manager who has explained everything to you, hope its put your mind at rest, because there is no need to worry. i cant emphasise that enough to you

always best to go to the top thats their job, and they are always ther to answer queries

Edited January 6, 2010 by MIKEY DABODEE