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    • I Submitted my defence last weekend,. In short, denying all allegations and requesting that the claim be struck out as claimant has no documents to support their claim and  have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever that any monies are owed to them by me and I considered it an abuse of process.   I have now received their directions questionnaire where they are championing 'Mediation over the telephone'   Should I agree to mediation once I receive the questionnaire from the court bearing in mind the dispute is about the existence of the alleged account and the lack of documents to prove it exists/ existed?   All I can say in mediation is that I've never heard of the account...... Do Lowell have to provide documents to the mediator?    Thanks in advance for any advice offered and sorry if the answers can be found elsewhere, but I'm not sure where to look 🤓   Spam 
    • Thank you all for the comments.. I hope to get a transcription of the recording, but I don't know if that's possible. I have asked the Court so will see what comes back. This is an overview and may not be exact wording..    I'll add the highlights from what I understood.. [both Judge & Mr D were well into the legal jargon].. some of the more technical discussion was lost on me..   Opening Statements.. VCS......Events from Incident to Court summons.. pretty much the WS opening Me........Night time, bad weather, bad visibility, children in danger walking on the road so "Signs" were not very clear VCS......Pictures on their WS were in daylight. Picture of the car we very blurry due to the rain. VCS agreed it was bad.. Me........Kangaroo Court - Every drop down on the appeal site is an admission of some sort of guilt. Needs to be an "Other" in case your situation doesn.t match Judge...Asked for clarification on POFA from VCS  VCS......Explained POFA in his terms and what he understood Judge...Was it a Parking event? VCS......No, it was a Stopping event Judge...Asked VCS who owns the land.. he didn't know so I told him Southend Council owns the freehold of the airport, but it has been leased since 1994 to London Southend Airport Company Limited Judge...Surprised VCS didn't know that Judge...Asked VCS if the Contract is relevant? VCS......Yes,  Judge...Still not clear VCS......Quoted VCS v Ward & Idle..  Me........That's not in your WS so is it admissible? Judge...That's not relevant in this case.. he had a quick look. Judge...Is the land relevant VCS......No real valid response, referred to VCS contract with the airport. Me........Why is Mr Wasi the paralegal not here as he may know? Judge...Section 46 refers to Parking/Waiting. Me........It all refers to Parking.. and I was not parked or waiting.. ## I expect Simple will see this as a loophole so may change it ##   Closing Statements: Me........VCS are aggressive in all their actions, as you can see by the Letters in their WS.. I also went through all the Arguments at a high level, such as Bye-Laws, Road Traffic Act [Public access etc.., the POFA discussed Parking, not Stopping, PO Box on the Signs, no address. VCS......Pretty much same as the Opening statement as far as I remember..    Judge...   Car was stopped for 30 seconds Multiple Signs The Driver "did" enter into a Contract as they entered the airport But.... Does POFA apply Needs distinction Stopped not Parked Only applies to Parking Judge referred VCS to Jopson v Homeguard 👍  Defendant wins the case & is not obliged to pay VCS any Fines   Judge to VCS... do you want to Appeal VCS.. Yes Sir................... but after 20 seconds he changed his mind to No Sir, no appeal at this time..  Judge to VCS... you have 3 weeks to appeal if you change your mind.   So.. VCS may appeal, but I had a feeling that he may have been tapped on the shoulder and advised to say No.. at the time..     ### As far as I can remember, this is how it went down ###.
    • Let us know when the hearing date has been set and then we will try to help you sort out your arguments and your documents. You will need to submit a court bundle. Please follow the court bundle link
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

Dissecting the Manchester Test Case....


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How would I stand then?

This from Amex. “We have provided you with the oldest terms and conditions that we hold for the account. The original terms and conditions are no longer maintained on our system, but the set provided is substantively the same as the original and should be suitable for your present purposes."

Now this letter is in my safe not with all the other old Amex rubbish and lies.

 

as per Carey v hsbc it is unenforceable while they are in breach

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

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court bundles for dummies

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Hi Royal THIS MAY APPLY TO rev.ian's circumstances TOO as per post1427 above

 

I have just received a letter from my friend this afternoon in which I sectioned a 77 in June last year to Lowell's on his behalf.His agreement was in early 1990's similar to your period.

 

Original Creditor Compucredit/Nationwide

Original Balance£4227.87

Balance as of 21/01/10 £00.00

Account Closed

NO FURTHER ACTION

 

They also said that the problem their client had (Nationwide) was due to archival process...I think that they are going to have real problems reconstituting ''an honest and accurate copy'' which was a requirement in Carey.

 

My next step will be to rectify any damage to his credit rating with a strong letter for removal and correction of outdated information.

 

Pls advise as to how to scan letter in..minus his personal details.It would be nice to keep the morale going as I have mentioned this result on other posts dealing with this subject

 

Rgds

 

M2ae:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Edited by means2anend
arcival process may apply to josie8
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Hi Royal THIS MAY APPLY TO rev.ian's circumstances TOO as per post1427 above

 

I have just received a letter from my friend this afternoon in which I sectioned a 77 in June last year to Lowell's on his behalf.His agreement was in early 1990's similar to your period.

 

Original Creditor Compucredit/Nationwide

Original Balance£4227.87

Balance as of 21/01/10 £00.00

Account Closed

NO FURTHER ACTION

 

They also said that the problem their client had (Nationwide) was due to archival process...I think that they are going to have real problems reconstituting ''an honest and accurate copy'' which was a requirement in Carey.

 

My next step will be to rectify any damage to his credit rating with a strong letter for removal and correction of outdated information. Dont forget to use Durkin ;);)

 

Pls advise as to how to scan letter in..minus his personal details.It would be nice to keep the morale going as I have mentioned this result on other posts dealing with this subject

 

Rgds

 

M2ae:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Have fun suing them.

If I have helped you or made you laugh by some witty remark and brightened your day................ the scales to click are over to your left hand side. :D:D

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Hi Royal THIS MAY APPLY TO JOSIE 8's circumstances TOO

 

I have just received a letter from my friend this afternoon in which I sectioned a 77 in June last year to Lowell's on his behalf.His agreement was in early 1990's similar to your period.

 

Original Creditor Compucredit/Nationwide

Original Balance£4227.87

Balance as of 21/01/10 £00.00

Account Closed

NO FURTHER ACTION

 

They also said that the problem their client had (Nationwide) was due to archival process...I think that they are going to have real problems reconstituting ''an honest and accurate copy'' which was a requirement in Carey.

 

My next step will be to rectify any damage to his credit rating with a strong letter for removal and correction of outdated information.

 

Pls advise as to how to scan letter in..minus his personal details.It would be nice to keep the morale going as I have mentioned this result on other posts dealing with this subject

 

Rgds

 

M2ae:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

 

That sounds good!

 

You would need to use a photo editing programme to paint over or clone out his personal details from a normal scan that you would take of the letter. I usually use Photoshop or paint shop pro, so I am not sure what is available within windows if your a windows user. Try looking for 'microsoft paint' it may be already on your system.

 

Rgds, Royal.

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That sounds good!

 

You would need to use a photo editing programme to paint over or clone out his personal details from a normal scan that you would take of the letter. I usually use Photoshop or paint shop pro, so I am not sure what is available within windows if your a windows user. Try looking for 'microsoft paint' it may be already on your system.

 

Rgds, Royal.

 

'Paint' should be available under 'start / programs / accessories'. Alternative download and install GIMP - The GNU Image Manipulation Program

 

It is every bit as good as Photoshop, but free!! I use it exclusively.

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Telephone transcripts are still in writing DD ;).... but I get your point.

 

transcripts yes - if the call was recorded

 

I am not aware (but stand to be corrected as my former experience of witness statements were s9 (criminal) - that a witness cannot state in his witness statement what he (personally) heard another person say, irrespective of whether the conversation was witnessed or recorded

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transcripts yes - if the call was recorded

 

I am not aware (but stand to be corrected as my former experience of witness statements were s9 (criminal) - that a witness cannot state in his witness statement what he (personally) heard another person say, irrespective of whether the conversation was witnessed or recorded

 

In theory, a "witness" could state whatever you wanted them to.... which is what makes it so flimsy (in my opinion). Transcript/written evidence on the other hand is hard evidence; proof positive.

 

:)

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In theory, a "witness" could state whatever you wanted them to.... which is what makes it so flimsy (in my opinion). Transcript/written evidence on the other hand is hard evidence; proof positive.

 

:)

 

agreed

 

for instance i have the creditor recorded on my truecall stating that there is no written executed agreement and that the application form i signed became an executed agreement upon first use of my credit card

 

I asked them to ensure they kept the recording (knowing full well they wont) and will delight, once i get them to give some lame excuse in writing as to why the recording no longer exists- in providing a transcript of mine

 

 

I love the truecall because it buffers all incoming calls so if , some way during the conversation the other side suddenly makes an admission or statement that it useful, you just hit the red button and the recorder records the entire conversation right from the beginning of the call

 

The computer record is ample for evidential puposes as to the time date duration of call etc etc

 

long live truecall!!

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What if you'd heard the creditors representative specifically tell you the original had been destroyed but in subsequent records provided from SAR or CPR requests the information/transcripts were not provided?

 

You can argue that it is in the interests of the creditor not to provide such information as it confirms your allegation and as the creditor may point out, not all of the calls are recorded.

 

Still think the fact that you submit such a statement for something which is fundamental to the entire case is something the claimant could reasonably be asked to dispel with the production of the original agreement, backed up with the CPR argument that the claimant 'should' produce the original in court.

 

Once more to re-cap, if they then can't produce the original you get to question their claim that the copy they have is a true copy and allows you to question anyone they bring in who declares it is indeed a true copy.

 

Isn't it the case that any creditor who intends to introduce hearsay/reproductions as evidence need to make a request under the Civil Evidence Act beforehand?

 

Just wondering how many creditors have overlooked this when they just turn up in court with a bag of photocopies?

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if the creditor normally records calls but gives some "reason" to the court that this particular recording, which contains a point that it not in their interests to confirm, is not available- i am sure the judge would make of that what he will

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What if you'd heard the creditors representative specifically tell you the original had been destroyed but in subsequent records provided from SAR or CPR requests the information/transcripts were not provided?

 

You can argue that it is in the interests of the creditor not to provide such information as it confirms your allegation and as the creditor may point out, not all of the calls are recorded.

 

Still think the fact that you submit such a statement for something which is fundamental to the entire case is something the claimant could reasonably be asked to dispel with the production of the original agreement, backed up with the CPR argument that the claimant 'should' produce the original in court.

 

Once more to re-cap, if they then can't produce the original you get to question their claim that the copy they have is a true copy and allows you to question anyone they bring in who declares it is indeed a true copy.

 

Isn't it the case that any creditor who intends to introduce hearsay/reproductions as evidence need to make a request under the Civil Evidence Act beforehand?

 

Just wondering how many creditors have overlooked this when they just turn up in court with a bag of photocopies?

 

Civil Evidence Act 1995

Civil Evidence Act 1995 (c. 38)

 

Seems you may have something their although it doesn't make this evidence unadmissable but rather has an effect on costs and the weight given to the evidence.

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DD, GD Splash came across them in an RBS securitization offer document. It said something along the lines of them being used by the financial industry for scanning, filing and storage issues.

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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As promised here is the letter from Lowells it was reduced from £4227.87

 

Enjoy

 

it will be reposted when proper editing done thanks slick132

 

Rgds

 

M2ae:cool:

Edited by means2anend
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Hi Means 2,

 

Suggest you remove your above link as it shows your name an addy for all to see.

 

Hide the personal data and repost. :)

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I have hopefully re-edited the personal details...I was seeing one thing and my fellow caggers were seeing an unedited version...Thanks for your sincere honesty..you know who you are...

 

Here is the lowells link

 

pls let me know if there are unedited details...I am trying to get to grips with photobucket

 

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/means2anend/Lowells-NFA.jpg

 

rgds

 

m2ae

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"No further action will be taken by ourselves", I would be careful about classing as a victory just yet. This suggests Lowells are no longer going to deal with it, but is the OC? It does suggest no further action will be legally possible as they do state that no documentation is available.

 

Had one similar from Robbers Way last year, but they had bought the debt so I am classing that as a win :)

Advice & opinions given by spartathisis are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.:)

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"No further action will be taken by ourselves", I would be careful about classing as a victory just yet. This suggests Lowells are no longer going to deal with it, but is the OC? It does suggest no further action will be legally possible as they do state that no documentation is available.

 

Had one similar from Robbers Way last year, but they had bought the debt so I am classing that as a win :)

 

 

 

 

I would tend to agree fully, however the letter does state that the current balance is £00.00.

 

Still not to be fully trusted though.;)

 

 

Jeff.

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I would tend to agree fully, however the letter does state that the current balance is £00.00.

 

Still not to be fully trusted though.;)

 

 

Jeff.

 

 

I understand what your saying guys...thanks I am still keeping my head down on this one.

 

But you're both right the context does tend to suggest it's over

 

If that is the case which I shall investigate further...I shall get my teeth into s.10 DPA 1998 whoich seems to be the next logical step and attempt to repair my friends credit rating

 

Well try anyway...shall let you know how it goes.

 

Rgds

 

M2ae;)

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I understand what your saying guys...thanks I am still keeping my head down on this one.

 

But you're both right the context does tend to suggest it's over

 

If that is the case which I shall investigate further...I shall get my teeth into s.10 DPA 1998 whoich seems to be the next logical step and attempt to repair my friends credit rating

 

Well try anyway...shall let you know how it goes.

 

Rgds

 

M2ae;)

 

Id try the information Commissioners Office first. Takes ages but no costs if all goes tits up

I have no legal qualifications whatsoever, so please check any input I have for accuracy. And please correct me if you disagree!

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