Dissecting the Manchester Test Case....

[royalblue1878]

Have a read. Last few posts should give you an idea. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/204622-halifax-mikeeb-help-defense-3.html#post2738475

 

 

Thanks I'll have a look.

[Josie8]

How would I stand then?

This from Amex. “We have provided you with the oldest terms and conditions that we hold for the account. The original terms and conditions are no longer maintained on our system, but the set provided is substantively the same as the original and should be suitable for your present purposes."

Now this letter is in my safe not with all the other old Amex rubbish and lies.

 

as per Carey v hsbc it is unenforceable while they are in breach

[means2anend]

Have a read. Last few posts should give you an idea. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/204622-halifax-mikeeb-help-defense-3.html#post2738475

 

Hi Royal THIS MAY APPLY TO rev.ian's circumstances TOO as per post1427 above

 

I have just received a letter from my friend this afternoon in which I sectioned a 77 in June last year to Lowell's on his behalf.His agreement was in early 1990's similar to your period.

 

Original Creditor Compucredit/Nationwide

Original Balance£4227.87

Balance as of 21/01/10 £00.00

Account Closed

NO FURTHER ACTION

 

They also said that the problem their client had (Nationwide) was due to archival process...I think that they are going to have real problems reconstituting ''an honest and accurate copy'' which was a requirement in Carey.

 

My next step will be to rectify any damage to his credit rating with a strong letter for removal and correction of outdated information.

 

Pls advise as to how to scan letter in..minus his personal details.It would be nice to keep the morale going as I have mentioned this result on other posts dealing with this subject

 

Rgds

 

M2ae:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Edited January 31, 2010 by means2anend
arcival process may apply to josie8

[nick20045]

Hi Royal THIS MAY APPLY TO rev.ian's circumstances TOO as per post1427 above

 

I have just received a letter from my friend this afternoon in which I sectioned a 77 in June last year to Lowell's on his behalf.His agreement was in early 1990's similar to your period.

 

Original Creditor Compucredit/Nationwide

Original Balance£4227.87

Balance as of 21/01/10 £00.00

Account Closed

NO FURTHER ACTION

 

They also said that the problem their client had (Nationwide) was due to archival process...I think that they are going to have real problems reconstituting ''an honest and accurate copy'' which was a requirement in Carey.

 

My next step will be to rectify any damage to his credit rating with a strong letter for removal and correction of outdated information. Dont forget to use Durkin ;)

 

Pls advise as to how to scan letter in..minus his personal details.It would be nice to keep the morale going as I have mentioned this result on other posts dealing with this subject

 

Rgds

 

M2ae:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Have fun suing them.

[royalblue1878]

Hi Royal THIS MAY APPLY TO JOSIE 8's circumstances TOO

 

I have just received a letter from my friend this afternoon in which I sectioned a 77 in June last year to Lowell's on his behalf.His agreement was in early 1990's similar to your period.

 

Original Creditor Compucredit/Nationwide

Original Balance£4227.87

Balance as of 21/01/10 £00.00

Account Closed

NO FURTHER ACTION

 

They also said that the problem their client had (Nationwide) was due to archival process...I think that they are going to have real problems reconstituting ''an honest and accurate copy'' which was a requirement in Carey.

 

My next step will be to rectify any damage to his credit rating with a strong letter for removal and correction of outdated information.

 

Pls advise as to how to scan letter in..minus his personal details.It would be nice to keep the morale going as I have mentioned this result on other posts dealing with this subject

 

Rgds

 

M2ae:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

 

That sounds good!

 

You would need to use a photo editing programme to paint over or clone out his personal details from a normal scan that you would take of the letter. I usually use Photoshop or paint shop pro, so I am not sure what is available within windows if your a windows user. Try looking for 'microsoft paint' it may be already on your system.

 

Rgds, Royal.

[basa48]

That sounds good!

 

You would need to use a photo editing programme to paint over or clone out his personal details from a normal scan that you would take of the letter. I usually use Photoshop or paint shop pro, so I am not sure what is available within windows if your a windows user. Try looking for 'microsoft paint' it may be already on your system.

 

Rgds, Royal.

 

'Paint' should be available under 'start / programs / accessories'. Alternative download and install GIMP - The GNU Image Manipulation Program

 

It is every bit as good as Photoshop, but free!! I use it exclusively.

[diddydicky]

Telephone transcripts are still in writing DD .... but I get your point.

 

transcripts yes - if the call was recorded

 

I am not aware (but stand to be corrected as my former experience of witness statements were s9 (criminal) - that a witness cannot state in his witness statement what he (personally) heard another person say, irrespective of whether the conversation was witnessed or recorded

[PriorityOne]

transcripts yes - if the call was recorded

 

I am not aware (but stand to be corrected as my former experience of witness statements were s9 (criminal) - that a witness cannot state in his witness statement what he (personally) heard another person say, irrespective of whether the conversation was witnessed or recorded

 

In theory, a "witness" could state whatever you wanted them to.... which is what makes it so flimsy (in my opinion). Transcript/written evidence on the other hand is hard evidence; proof positive.

 

[diddydicky]

In theory, a "witness" could state whatever you wanted them to.... which is what makes it so flimsy (in my opinion). Transcript/written evidence on the other hand is hard evidence; proof positive.

 

 

agreed

 

for instance i have the creditor recorded on my truecall stating that there is no written executed agreement and that the application form i signed became an executed agreement upon first use of my credit card

 

I asked them to ensure they kept the recording (knowing full well they wont) and will delight, once i get them to give some lame excuse in writing as to why the recording no longer exists- in providing a transcript of mine

 

 

I love the truecall because it buffers all incoming calls so if , some way during the conversation the other side suddenly makes an admission or statement that it useful, you just hit the red button and the recorder records the entire conversation right from the beginning of the call

 

The computer record is ample for evidential puposes as to the time date duration of call etc etc

 

long live truecall!!

[PriorityOne]

Nice one DD...

[emandcole]

What if you'd heard the creditors representative specifically tell you the original had been destroyed but in subsequent records provided from SAR or CPR requests the information/transcripts were not provided?

 

You can argue that it is in the interests of the creditor not to provide such information as it confirms your allegation and as the creditor may point out, not all of the calls are recorded.

 

Still think the fact that you submit such a statement for something which is fundamental to the entire case is something the claimant could reasonably be asked to dispel with the production of the original agreement, backed up with the CPR argument that the claimant 'should' produce the original in court.

 

Once more to re-cap, if they then can't produce the original you get to question their claim that the copy they have is a true copy and allows you to question anyone they bring in who declares it is indeed a true copy.

 

Isn't it the case that any creditor who intends to introduce hearsay/reproductions as evidence need to make a request under the Civil Evidence Act beforehand?

 

Just wondering how many creditors have overlooked this when they just turn up in court with a bag of photocopies?

[diddydicky]

if the creditor normally records calls but gives some "reason" to the court that this particular recording, which contains a point that it not in their interests to confirm, is not available- i am sure the judge would make of that what he will

[freethemice]

What if you'd heard the creditors representative specifically tell you the original had been destroyed but in subsequent records provided from SAR or CPR requests the information/transcripts were not provided?

 

You can argue that it is in the interests of the creditor not to provide such information as it confirms your allegation and as the creditor may point out, not all of the calls are recorded.

 

Still think the fact that you submit such a statement for something which is fundamental to the entire case is something the claimant could reasonably be asked to dispel with the production of the original agreement, backed up with the CPR argument that the claimant 'should' produce the original in court.

 

Once more to re-cap, if they then can't produce the original you get to question their claim that the copy they have is a true copy and allows you to question anyone they bring in who declares it is indeed a true copy.

 

Isn't it the case that any creditor who intends to introduce hearsay/reproductions as evidence need to make a request under the Civil Evidence Act beforehand?

 

Just wondering how many creditors have overlooked this when they just turn up in court with a bag of photocopies?

 

Civil Evidence Act 1995

Civil Evidence Act 1995 (c. 38)

 

Seems you may have something their although it doesn't make this evidence unadmissable but rather has an effect on costs and the weight given to the evidence.

[the main man]

but rather has an effect on costs and the weight given to the evidence.

 

Earles v Barclays Bank Plc [2009] EWHC 2500 (Mercantile) (08 October 2009)

[spartathisis]

DD, GD Splash came across them in an RBS securitization offer document. It said something along the lines of them being used by the financial industry for scanning, filing and storage issues.

[emandcole]

Earles v Barclays Bank Plc [2009] EWHC 2500 (Mercantile) (08 October 2009)

 

Thanks main man, some bits in there very helpful

[means2anend]

As promised here is the letter from Lowells it was reduced from £4227.87

 

Enjoy

 

it will be reposted when proper editing done thanks slick132

 

Rgds

 

M2ae:cool:

Edited February 1, 2010 by means2anend

[slick132]

Hi Means 2,

 

Suggest you remove your above link as it shows your name an addy for all to see.

 

Hide the personal data and repost.

[means2anend]

I have hopefully re-edited the personal details...I was seeing one thing and my fellow caggers were seeing an unedited version...Thanks for your sincere honesty..you know who you are...

 

Here is the lowells link

 

pls let me know if there are unedited details...I am trying to get to grips with photobucket

 

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/means2anend/Lowells-NFA.jpg

 

rgds

 

m2ae

[means2anend]

duplication

[spartathisis]

"No further action will be taken by ourselves", I would be careful about classing as a victory just yet. This suggests Lowells are no longer going to deal with it, but is the OC? It does suggest no further action will be legally possible as they do state that no documentation is available.

 

Had one similar from Robbers Way last year, but they had bought the debt so I am classing that as a win

[Jeff2000]

"No further action will be taken by ourselves", I would be careful about classing as a victory just yet. This suggests Lowells are no longer going to deal with it, but is the OC? It does suggest no further action will be legally possible as they do state that no documentation is available.

 

Had one similar from Robbers Way last year, but they had bought the debt so I am classing that as a win

 

 

 

 

I would tend to agree fully, however the letter does state that the current balance is £00.00.

 

Still not to be fully trusted though.

 

 

Jeff.

[means2anend]

I would tend to agree fully, however the letter does state that the current balance is £00.00.

 

Still not to be fully trusted though.

 

 

Jeff.

 

 

I understand what your saying guys...thanks I am still keeping my head down on this one.

 

But you're both right the context does tend to suggest it's over

 

If that is the case which I shall investigate further...I shall get my teeth into s.10 DPA 1998 whoich seems to be the next logical step and attempt to repair my friends credit rating

 

Well try anyway...shall let you know how it goes.

 

Rgds

 

M2ae;)

[means2anend]

Have fun suing them.

 

 

Hi Nick20045

 

who is durkin?

 

Rgds

 

m2ae:?

[haggis1984]

I understand what your saying guys...thanks I am still keeping my head down on this one.

 

But you're both right the context does tend to suggest it's over

 

If that is the case which I shall investigate further...I shall get my teeth into s.10 DPA 1998 whoich seems to be the next logical step and attempt to repair my friends credit rating

 

Well try anyway...shall let you know how it goes.

 

Rgds

 

M2ae;)

 

Id try the information Commissioners Office first. Takes ages but no costs if all goes tits up