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    • Hi all,   Lowell sols have responded to my cpr with exactly the same documentation as Lowells sent through. So still no valid agreement!   Defence due Friday by 4pm.   I have updated my defence below based on your points Dx. Many thanks.   Would you and Andy mind having a scan over before i send off on Friday please?   Cheers in advance as always     Particulars of Claim    1.The defendant entered in to a consumer credit act 1974 regulated agreement with Vanquis under account reference xxxxxxxx ('the agreement')   2.The defendant failed to maintain the required payments and arrears began to accrue   3.The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on 27/09/19 and notice given to the defendant   4. Despite repeated requests for payment the sum of xxx remains due and outstanding.   And the claimant claims a. The said sum of xxxx b. Interest pursuant to s69 county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue accruing at a daily rate of £0.610 but limited to one year being £222.65 c. Costs   Defence:   The Defendant contends that the  particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Vanquis. I do not recall the precise details of the agreement and have sought to seek clarity from the claimant.   2. Paragraph 3 is noted. I do not recall ever receiving this notice pursuant to sec136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.   3. On receipt of a notice of acting letter sent from Lowell Solicitors, the Defendant sent for on the 12/11/2020 via royal mail a section 78 request to Lowell Portfolio Ltd pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. This for a copy of the agreement. The claimant has partially complied and disclosed various documents however they were unable to comply with disclosing a valid full copy of the executed agreement on which their claim relies upon.   5. The claimant disclosed various screenshots taken from  the originators software of the application and also confirms on their covering letter the relative legislation The Electronic Communications Act 2000 with regards to wet signatures and the requirement of a tick box to validate the application.The screenshots  are devoid of any tick box or any authenticity of IP address conformation check.Therefore the claimant remains in default of my section 78 request and pursuant to section 78  6 a of the CCA1974  the claimant is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.   6. On receipt of this claim form I sent a CPR 31.14 request on the 11/2/21 via royal mail to Lowell Solicitors and again the claimant only disclosed exactly the same documentation. The claimant therefore after a second attempt by the defendant remains in default of said request.   7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-   a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement ; and b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and c) Show or evidence service of a Default Notice /Notice of Sums in Arrears, d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

Bank Of Ireland Credit Card claimform


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Court say I can re-arrange or just write - they would never suggest someone doesn't attend a hearing. They say and dont do a lot of things

 

Here's my letter to the Court - do you think it'll be ok?

 

 

I am now in receipt of the Notice of Hearing, regarding the Directions Hearing on xxth August 2010.

 

Unfortunately, I am unable to attend the hearing due to a family holiday (this was not booked at the time the Allocation Questionnaire was returned).

 

I am informed by the Court that my recent letter to the Court dated XXXXXXXX (hand delivered) has not been attached to the case file, so I have enclosed a copy for the Courts benefit.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

 

 

Any thoughts before I post it?

 

BL

 

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

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You stated the Court said they would never suggest somebody not attending an hearing I simply implied they say and dont do a lot of things,take your hand delivered letter for example and the amount of Claimants that never turn up.

 

You have informed the court you cant attend they have advised to write or rearrange.You cant do anymore.

 

 

With regards to your letter the above abridged version is what I would send,the reason for non attendance, dont try to include another defence it will be totally ignored.

 

 

Andy

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Ah - got you now....sorry for being a bit slow on the uptake :)

 

You can see it's been a long week when I didn't even notice you'd amended my letter!!

 

Oh dear, time for a sit down and a Stella !!

 

Thanks as ever for your help Andy - have a good weekend.

 

BL

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Well, following the HUGE delay from BoI and GPB solicitors in replying to my letters - we have a response! But hold on - have a read first.... Anyone care to translate?

 

To clarify - their first paragraph relates to an earlier statement that they would file & serve a witness statement regarding the method of postage (1st or 2nd class) if the matter was listed for hearing.

 

The second paragraph relates to my point to them that the "copy" of the DN they sent to Court with their Allocation Questionnaire was a really bad "cut & past" job - they'd left in someone elses name, they'd got some of the figures right & some wrong - very unclear as to what the situation was, and it did not resemble the original I received.

 

Any thoughts....

 

th_GPBLetterjulyoraug.jpg

 

Cheers

 

BL

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At first read GPB seem to be pedalling backwards at a rate of knots. Obviously you were not expected to contest anything they said or supplied

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At first read GPB seem to be pedalling backwards at a rate of knots. Obviously you were not expected to contest anything they said or supplied

 

My thoughts exactly! It's just that first paragraph, I had to read it 3 times and I'm still not sure I understand it - and I'm not exactly thick!

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I can only endorse ODC comment BL cornered and panic springs to mind;)

 

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

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  • 4 weeks later...

hi again everyone,

 

Had another letter from the solicitors - basically requesting a copy of the original DN from me. They've worded it in such a way as to make it sound like " aren't you prepared to send us a copy?" When I can't see that they actually asked for one in the letter I posted above!

 

I suppose reading it again it could be the last couple of sentences...?

 

Anyway, do I send them a copy (they've requested is under the principles of CPR)? I COULD say I can't find it, but that'd be naughty cos I probably could if I got off my ar*e & looked for it.

 

I'm worried that if I send them the copy, they'll say "well ours was wrong but it doesn't matter because you had the original which was right so you knew what amounts we were asking for" etc etc.... Obviously it doesn't change the issue about it being invalid on dates though.

 

On that note, should I ask them to clarify the first paragraph of that above letter? I still don't know if they intend to file a witness statement from the Bank saying "we definitely posted it First Class" - if they do that, I'm stuffed aren't I?

 

Cheers

 

BL

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Hi BL

 

This Dn is certainly causing them some concern and a weak point you should use to your advantage.Shortly you will come to the Disclosure stage.N265

If you do not list said DN in your List then you can not introduce it or rely upon it.Something I would not advocate doing.

Should you list it and only on after receipt of the Claimants N265 to check if they have listed their valid copy (not) then list it.

 

However there are ways of being obstructive (something a Claimant would never consider and perish the thought I would suggest it)

 

Civil Procedure Rules

 

Part 31 DISCLOSURE AND INSPECTION OF DOCUMENTS

 

 

31.1

 

 

 

 

 

Meaning of disclosure

 

31.2

 

A party discloses a document by stating that the document exists or has existed.

 

 

 

Right of inspection of a disclosed document

 

31.3

 

(1) A party to whom a document has been disclosed has a right to inspect that document except where –

(a) the document is no longer in the control of the party who disclosed it;

 

(b) the party disclosing the document has a right or a duty to withhold inspection of it; or

 

© paragraph (2) applies.

 

(Rule 31.8 sets out when a document is in the control of a party)

(Rule 31.19 sets out the procedure for claiming a right or duty to withhold inspection)

 

(2) Where a party considers that it would be disproportionate to the issues in the case to permit inspection of documents within a category or class of document disclosed under rule 31.6(b) –

(a) he is not required to permit inspection of documents within that category or class; but

 

(b) he must state in his disclosure statement that inspection of those documents will not be permitted on the grounds that to do so would be disproportionate.

 

(Rule 31.6 provides for standard disclosure)

(Rule 31.10 makes provision for a disclosure statement)

(Rule 31.12 provides for a party to apply for an order for specific inspection of documents

 

 

Obviously none of the above should matter to the Claimant as they will be reliant on their own valid copy wouldnt they??

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

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So what you're NOT suggesting I do is reply to the solicitors saying that under CPR 31.3(2)(b) I have the right to withold their inspection of the document as it would be disproportionate to the issues in the case, namely that they have their own reconstituted DN which they can rely on as being factually correct - this must be the case as they originally submitted it to the Court with the Allocation Questionnaire.

 

Obviously I wouldn't consider sending this letter, but I want to make sure it's correct - before I don't send it.

 

BL

 

;)

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You cant use it in a letter its part of the N265 and only to be used at this time.Ignore their veiled request for a copy of yours for now until disclosure.Bump your thread when you get to this stage.

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Right you are - thanks again Andy. I'm kind of hoping it doesn't get as far as disclosure - I suppose it depends on how the Directions Hearing goes later this month.

 

I guess it's still not too late to ask the court to strike out the claim?

 

And it's not too risky to ignore the solicitors letter? They did make the request under the guiding principles of CPR (roughly their words if I remember rightly!) - shouldn't I acknowledge their letter? Or is it time to shut up & let the Judge decide whats for the best?

 

Thanks again,

 

BL

Edited by bradfordlad
doh!

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You could respond to them and say you may be prepared to disclose it at Disclosure point subject to them listing theirs.Which CPR do they request it under?

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi guys,

 

another update.

 

The Directions Hearing was back end of September. Wife couldn't make it, woke up with MAJOR stomach ache (and all that goes with it!) so I emailed the court with "our point of view" as suggested by the court official I spoke to when I rang. Interestingly I asked if I could attend as a representative of my wife, but was told NO.

 

Why can the claimant send a representative, but not the defendant? What if she were using a solicitor on her behalf?

 

Received a new Order from the Court on Saturday morning. I have to serve on the Claimants solicitor a copy of the Default Notice (and I quote) "which she says was served upon her" (remember its my wife's case) - by 4pm on Tuesday 5th October!! No pressure then! It's gone special delivery today...

 

WHICH SHE SAYS WAS SERVED UPON HER?? A case of the Claimants representative pulling the Judges strings I suspect?

 

Anyway, the case is now stayed for a month, but by then the parties have to write to the Court as follows:

 

1) stating whether they request allocation to small claims or fast track

2) requestion directions to take the case through to trial

 

So where to go from here? I sent a covering letter to the solicitors with my copy of the DN, saying basically what was wrong with their alleged DN and why it differed to the one they sent me. I also pointed out AGAIN that my whole argument revolves around the invalidity of the DN based on insufficient time to remedy. I requested that they discuss this point with their client again, and that they withdraw proceedings - I also threw in again the quote from Judge Langan in the BoS V Mitchell about big banks pursuing court action even when their error has been pointed out to them.

 

Do I need to worry about the court order? I'm terrified of going to trial and want to avoid it at all costs..

 

Cheers

 

BL

Edited by bradfordlad
slight correction!

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Hi Bl

 

So basically you have a month to try to come to some mutual agreement or submit AQs and the case proceeds.

If you opt for SCT this will protect you from costs and also keep matters very informal.

With regards to your last statement there is no need to fear court and argue your case, after all you did defend in an attempt to either win and stop any CCJ or argue your case and maybe gain an

agreeable conclusion.Litigation is about who blinks first and crumble or will you call their bluff.Only you can decide.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Thanks Andy, and well put.

 

We are right. It's as simple as that - I actually said in my letter to the sols: "The fact is simple. Your client made a mistake." - We WILL see this through, but I'd prefer to go SCT if possible. The balance is £7xxx so doesn't this exclude us from Small claims though? I like informal!!

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Well technically you are over the 5K limit for SCT but the court as made the option in its order:- or have you miss typed it

 

Anyway, the case is now stayed for a month, but by then the parties have to write to the Court as follows:

 

1) stating whether they request allocation to small claims or fast track

2) requestion directions to take the case through to trial

Its not imposable for that amount to be dealt with at SCT if the case is fairly simple.

Regards

Andy

 

 

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Coolio!!

 

Definitely £7k, but the order is exactly as typed. So, SCT it is then :) Do I actually need to do anything now, or wait for the sols to reply to my letter and then get my letter to court before deadline?

 

As always, thanks for your help Andy.

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You can wait to see if the Claimant approaches you or you may instigate communications re settlement.If neither materialises then download the N149 and submit by the required date.

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Does it make a difference that we've alread done AQ's from back in May when they instigated proceedings? The case has been stayed a couple of times since then, and then the judge ordered the Directions Hearing for last month, presumably to try figure out what the feck was going on!!

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It is normal to resubmit AQs after stays in case of any change within the claim.

 

Andy

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  • 2 months later...

Hi peeps,

 

here's a HUGE update....

 

Basically, I received an Order from the court following a DJ reviewing the file in November. The case is now allocated to SCT and is listed for a full hearing at the beginning of Janaury, and we have to prepare full witness statements and document bundles - these are to be with the other parties by 24th December :(

 

The DJ also feels the case is suitable for mediation and we have received a letter from the mediation service today.

 

HOWEVER....we also received a letter from the Solicitors....they finally seem to have woken up to the fact that our defence lies solely on the fact that the DN gave insufficient time due to dates, and in the absence of any statement to the contrary we have been working on the premise that the DN was posted second class.

 

They have now said that the claimant will prepare a witness statement confirming the DN was posted FIRST CLASS! B'STARDS!! Why didn't they do this a year ago and save us all this grief?

 

Simply put - does this mean our case is now blown out of the water?

 

They go on to say that if we require an affidavit swearing it was sent first class, they would want to know under what authority we were requesting it. I'm out of my depth on this one guys - help!!

 

Can you sense my panic?

 

As always, any help greatly appreciated :)

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Hi peeps,

 

here's a HUGE update....

 

Basically, I received an Order from the court following a DJ reviewing the file in November. The case is now allocated to SCT and is listed for a full hearing at the beginning of Janaury, and we have to prepare full witness statements and document bundles - these are to be with the other parties by 24th December :(

 

The DJ also feels the case is suitable for mediation and we have received a letter from the mediation service today.

 

HOWEVER....we also received a letter from the Solicitors....they finally seem to have woken up to the fact that our defence lies solely on the fact that the DN gave insufficient time due to dates, and in the absence of any statement to the contrary we have been working on the premise that the DN was posted second class.

 

They have now said that the claimant will prepare a witness statement confirming the DN was posted FIRST CLASS! B'STARDS!! Why didn't they do this a year ago and save us all this grief?

 

Simply put - does this mean our case is now blown out of the water?

 

They go on to say that if we require an affidavit swearing it was sent first class, they would want to know under what authority we were requesting it. I'm out of my depth on this one guys - help!!

 

 

Affidavit evidence

 

CPR 32.15

 

(1) Evidence must be given by affidavit instead of or in addition to a witness statement if this is required by the court, a provision contained in any other rule, a practice direction or any other enactment.

 

(2) Nothing in these Rules prevents a witness giving evidence by affidavit at a hearing other than the trial if he chooses to do so in a case where paragraph (1) does not apply, but the party putting forward the affidavit may not recover the additional cost of making it from any other party unless the court orders otherwise.

 

 

Form of affidavit

 

CPR 32.16

 

An affidavit must comply with the requirements set out in Practice Direction 32.

 

 

 

 

Can you sense my panic?

 

As always, any help greatly appreciated :)

 

Regards

 

Andy

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THanks Andy,

 

Is there any point carrying on though? If they can "prove" the dn was sent 1st class then isn't it Game Over for us?

 

BL

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