LLoyds Business overdraft CCJ recieved

[ukaviator]

Hi Jdene

 

I haven't been through all of your thread here, have they added interest to this amount owing?

 

Also get your solicitor to write to your ex partner about helping with the repayments, they would also need to do an income and expenditure sheet.

[caro]

Just reading the thread and see if I can offer any help or point you in the right direction.

[caro]

Ok now read and see where you're at and this is atrocious.

 

I am not particularly familiar with personal guarantees, but it seems to me that Lloyds are out of order here. The whole idea of a company with limited liability is that if things don't work out, the directors won't be held personally liable for the companys debts and so protect themselves.

Effectively Lloyds have got past this by (allegedly) getting a personal guarantee for a company debt. The guarantee document is quite loose about what interest rates should be charged, and to call in a 25k debt by going straight to court seems to me to be against the CPRs and unfair.

 

Has all this happened since 1st December 2009?

[jdene]

yes they issued me with the court papers on 12Th December, and as far as I am aware they have not even tried to go through the official recievers to try and secure any claim jus straight to us.

[jdene]

Just so you have the full picture, following the company going into liquidation, Lloyds did send a few letters asking for a repayment plan, and at that time I was sure we had not signed a personal guarantee and as I am out of work wrote back and told them I could not offer a repayment plan and wanted a copy of the guarantee, it never arrived but then the solicitors letter arrived, so I requested the same from them with no luck so ignored them then they issued the court claim, post helped me with a request for the guarantee etc. and the litlle blighters promptly produced it under court directions, and thats where I am now. My ex business partner says he will go bankrupt rather than pay and I think he has moved his assets away from himself. but the last thing I want is bankruptcy so I have instructed my solicitor to try and reach an agreement to repay, as I am taking over a pub restaurant shortly only as a tenant but it could help me back on my feet and give me and my family a fresh start.

[Despairing Stu]

jdene - our situation is near identical..our company went under last year and Lloyds came on to me for the personal guarantee (which i wasn't totally aware of either), i requested copies which have not arrived and now have received a letter from wescot? asking for £20K by 18th feb or they will issue proceedings, bailiffs etc. Do you have a payment plan in mind? If so could you share it with me as i am totally at my wits end with this and am not sure what to offer etc.

I am pleased it has not put you off a new venture with the pub and wish you all the best of luck - i for one will not be going down this route again.

[jdene]

Despairing stu I am going to offer £100 per month this is not much agaunst what is owed but if they make me bankrupt they will get nothing and I will still have the pub as it is a tenancy and i am just the leeasee which they cannot touch as I am allowed to earn a living I wish I could give you more information but get yourself a solicitor it is worth it I have one on legal aid and though it is limited time allowed for the solicitor it is better to have someone covering your back, and just think to get things inperspective people pay more than this for a car.

[caro]

yes they issued me with the court papers on 12Th December, and as far as I am aware they have not even tried to go through the official recievers to try and secure any claim jus straight to us.

 

I had wondered whether some new regs that came into force on 1st may be applicable in your case, but I'm told not. Was just a long shot.

 

Just so you have the full picture, following the company going into liquidation, Lloyds did send a few letters asking for a repayment plan, and at that time I was sure we had not signed a personal guarantee and as I am out of work wrote back and told them I could not offer a repayment plan and wanted a copy of the guarantee, it never arrived but then the solicitors letter arrived, so I requested the same from them with no luck so ignored them then they issued the court claim, post helped me with a request for the guarantee etc. and the litlle blighters promptly produced it under court directions, and thats where I am now. My ex business partner says he will go bankrupt rather than pay and I think he has moved his assets away from himself. but the last thing I want is bankruptcy so I have instructed my solicitor to try and reach an agreement to repay, as I am taking over a pub restaurant shortly only as a tenant but it could help me back on my feet and give me and my family a fresh start.

 

Not an ideal situation I know, but as UK says, make sure what's happening about interest on this.

 

Good luck with the pub. You'll have your work cut out.

[elsinore]

Hi jdene.

 

Presumably your defence to the claim and your AQ is now with the court awaiting allocation/directions from a judge.

 

Are you going to continue with your defence or withdraw? What has your solicitor advised you to do?

 

Are you in contact with your business ex-partner and do you know his intentions?

 

Els

[jdene]

Hi elsinore, I have been advised to make an offer of repayment or go bankrupt, they have responded to the court directions with all the paperwork so not much room for manover I dont want to go bankrupt as that will mess any future hopes I have, I have spoken to my ex partner and he is going to go bankrupt i think having now transfered any assetts just hope the court will direct them to accept the £100 a month I have offered, as bunkruptcy will leave them without a penny from me as I have not assets anyway

[elsinore]

I can’t see them accepting an offer of £100 per month. Even without the addition of further interest (which has already gone up by approx £400 since their claim was filed), it would take you 20+ years to pay it off. I also think the agreement gives LTSB the right to add interest after judgment, which means you would never pay it off. Meanwhile you will have an unsatisfied CCJ for £25k on your credit record for 6 years, which may well prevent you from obtaining loans/credit, etc.

 

LTSB are going to press for judgment anyway, so you might as well defend the claim as vigorously as you can.

 

You have stated a number of times throughout your thread that you and your ex-partner have no recollection of (knowingly) signing the agreement. Your statement in post 138, that you signed in the belief that they were the normal bank account opening formalities, is quite understandable. It’s happened to others, including me, and it might be enough to sow some seeds of doubt in a judge’s mind. If you then back that up by challenging the authenticity/validity of the agreement, you might just get away with it. You have nothing to lose by trying it.

 

• The pages of the document appear not to have any headings, e.g. the name and address of the bank, title of the document, etc. Have you deleted them for copying?
  
• Can you tell if they appear to be 4 faces of a one-piece document?
  
• Do you know the person who witnessed your signatures?
  
• Are you satisfied that your own signature is genuine?
  
• There is no warning notice anywhere exhorting you to take independent legal advice before signing. This usually appears on this type of document.*
  
• Can you recall whether you were verbally advised by the manager to read any documents before signing, or whether the importance or significance of any documents was explained to you?
  
• Is the manager still at the branch?
  
• Does the date on the document look right? Can you verify it, or challenge it, i.e. prove you were somewhere else on that day?
  
• Are you prepared to state in court what you said in your post 138?
  

*Something like this:

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT DOCUMENT. YOU SHOULD TAKE INDEPENDENT LEGAL ADVICE BEFORE SIGNING AND SIGN ONLY IF YOU WANT TO BE LEGALLY BOUND. IF YOU SIGN AND THE BANK IS NOT PAID YOU MAY HAVE TO PAY INSTEAD OF THE DEBTOR.

I recently read of a case where discrepancies in banking formalities were challenged and the case was settled before judgment with a full and final settlement of less than 10% of the claimed amount.

 

Els

[jdene]

Hello elsinore to be honest I am in a mess with this, I realy dont want to be declared insolvent, I am goingto my solicitors this afternoon and will ask him to consider the questions you have raised as I believe they are all valid and I did not believe we were signing this guarantee,but it is my signature and the dates are correct, the witness signature is the regional business manager who we opened the account with.

[elsinore]

A witness to a legal/financial agreement should be an independent third party with no financial interest in the contract. Your regional business manager was remiss in failing to tell you this and should not have signed it himself. It serves to assist you in your contention that he did a double shuffle.

 

Els

[jdene]

is that in any piece of legislation that i could pass to my solicitor he is not the best on consumer law

[jdene]

bump

[elsinore]

There may be, but I haven't found anything yet. However, it is considered to be good business practise as I'm sure your solicitor will agree. It's as much for the banks manager's protection as yours.

 

Els

[jdene]

Well as expected they refused my offer, and want nearly £600 a month which is more than what i have coming in at the momment being unemployed, my solicitor has said sod them let them go for a judgement then show the court what my income is and what i have offered, and the court will put a stop to the £240 a month interest and only order repayment of what can be reasonably afforded.

So its wait for a court date now to put my case and let the judge know it was signed without full knowledge of the implications as previous Guarantees had to have independent witness signature that I had previously paid for as my solicitor had to sign as witness to my signature and to say the significance of the document had been fully explained and that was for a timber merchant account lol, admitedly the credit limit was for £50k thankfully we had paid them in full before it all went tits up

[postggj]

hi jdene

 

been laid up

 

leg again

 

hows it going

quick update please

[jdene]

Hello Post good to have you back mate we all been wondering what had Happened, sorry to hear it was more illness but as long as your up and about again now,

well the update with Lloyds is that I have passed it to my solicitor to try and get some sense of sanity, but welcome are well and truly in the firing line and could do with some more advice on beatting them up a little more if you are up to it mate.

[postggj]

ill deal with this this weekend

 

still going through all the threads

 

has lloyds replied with any docs yet

 

thats anything to do with the overdraft

[jdene]

yes they have supplied everything all practically bomb proof it looks like they have had a few close calls and tightened up on all thier paperwork.

[ccridersuz]

Hi, I have read this thread with interest and the most interesting point that hasn't been mentioned is:-

 

we were then introduced to a new accountant who Quote "would change our business to a multi national" he advised us to change to lloyds where his mate is business manager.

 

Maybe it's the way my mind works, but this bit may be worth investigating! These two guy's are the cause of this problem, would they have had some private agreement between themselves? a bit of a backhander misdealing's????

Just wondered where they are now? and if prehap's these two have conned anyone else? after all signing up a stolen business customer from another bank must have reaped someone a nice fat bonus!!

Sorry peep's but being a suspicious ex copper has never left me.

[rosswaldo]

Hi, Any update on this, am in similar position? I'm assuming you backed down and offered repayment plan? Also what was your final defence in court and were you burden with a CCJ against you?

[jdene]

Yes unfortunatley a simple update they have our house and no defence to file did try to fight but with all other problems such as my wifes cancer and just trying to get by they won again, this forum has been good but bottom line is when you need credible advice for court it just isnt that available they have billions we have heart they keep burying our heart with cash, and those of us who do fight have very little to fall back on except our arse.