Company Car- left employment now being chased for upgrade costs...

[m2000]

Basically, there was an online system for ordering vehicles. Each employee is given a log-on and this allows them to order their vehicle.

 

When you log-on you can either order a bench-mark car at no cost (typically a Vauxhall Insignia) or you can choose to pay a monthly contribution for an upgrade towards another higher-spec car i.e. Audi A4/A6 etc etc

 

The monthly contribution /trade-up is taken via pay-slip each month.

[m2000]

Forgot to add - I also have heard it on the grapevine that the employee who is now driving my old vehicle did indeed want the same vehicle as myself and had ordered it, it just so happened that I left and that giving him mine was a lot quicker than the lead time of 3 months.

 

It is a case of proving it tho

[postggj]

my opinion is yes, you did order the trade up

yes you did agree to pay for it

 

but

 

a new employee is using and having the benefit of the trade up who should be paying for it

 

if the vehicle went back to the leaseing co, that a different story but as the co still have the vehicle and is being used

 

call there bluff

 

thats what i would do

thats why they dont want to get into any negotiations

if they issue a claim

 

just defend it

 

thats what i would do but its your choice

[m2000]

hi Postggj

 

as usual your help is appreciated.

 

I just worry about what would happen if it went to court.. is it likely that I would have to attend court? or could it be done via paperwork? is it easy to defend such a case?

 

I also worry about having to pay up the £4k they want... i just don't have that sort of money, it would bankrupt me. If I lost would they want it all in one lump?

 

Sorry for the questions, just panic setting in!!

[postggj]

the most a court would order you to pay would be what you can afford

 

if on benefits would be a quid a month

 

court is not that bad

 

issuing a court claim is easy

 

going through with it is a different matter

 

most court claims never get to go in front of a judge

its all decided before, mainly the claimant pulling out if there is a chance they will lose

 

a defence will be quite easy

 

call there bluff or they will still go for a claim

[m2000]

I am working, but went from a well paid job with the company in question to where I am now on a much lower wage (but happier)

 

So, you would expect that the situation would be resolved via the court papers/defence rather than being dragged infront of a judge?

 

How would you call their bluff? basically a see you in court letter?

 

If they go for a claim (I think they will, they are very driven on this) I will receieve a claim form from the court?

 

I then submit a defence on paper?

 

I hate the thought of being in a big court against their overpaid lawyers!!

 

Thanks again Matey

[postggj]

i had a barister against me in court when i took on welcome finance

 

i blew him out the water

 

you get a claim

you acknowledge and defend all the claim

you do a defence, ill help out on that one,

 

then the horse trading starts between you and the sols

 

just stick to your guns

 

this will take months before it goes in front of a judge and when and iff you appear, so relax

 

i know it sounds strange but

 

enjoy the ride

 

its an experience

[m2000]

Hi Postggj

 

Thanks for your advice, you make me feel a bit better about it all!

 

Shall I reply to their letter with something brief, along the lines of

 

"Dear.......

 

I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated ..... the contents of which have been noted.

 

I would like to point out, however, that if you should instigate court proceedings I shall have no hesitation in rigerously defending your claim.

 

Regards

M2000

 

 

Also, your offer of help with the defence would be really appreciated. My gut feeling is that they will issue court papers. I just hope they doback off at some stage as i really dont fancy court!

[m2000]

Any more views on this anyone?

[pippadeee]

From experience usually a new employee is provided with a list of currently available pool cars and the associated monthly cost for each.

 

If the cost of the car is more than their monthly allowance they don't have to take a pool car and can instead order a new one within the monthly allowance.

 

The monthly cost for that car you had that you were paying would normally be listed against that car on the pool car list. It would then be up to the new employee as to whether they chose to take that cost on to get that particular car.

 

There's tax implications too to this, don't forget. It might be worth a quick call to the tax office as to how it works being asked to pay this money.

 

Also who's to say the new employee isn't actually paying the same monthly cost for your car as you were? I'm sure there would be tax implications there too - tax benefits x 2 people for the same vehicle I doubt is right.

 

Either way I'd defend this. It doesn't sound right to me. I've known it to be stated in contracts that companies can ask people who leave to pay this cost back but in practice I've never known it happen because someone new always takes the car so there is no loss to claw back.

[m2000]

Hi Pidppadee,

 

Thanks for your response.

 

I will do some digging about the tax implications - thanks for the hint!

 

The company is basically implying that it was my choice to upgrade and pay additional cost each month for that. The new employee who took over the car didnt necessariliy order that model/spec etc and therefor shouldn't be expected to pay any upgrade costs.

 

 

But surely if that is the case he should have been allocated a standard car? you pay's your money and makes your choice so to speak?

 

Its all rather stressfull now, and getting worried their legal eagles (and they are by all reports) sare gonna whip my a**!!!

[Leakie]

Hi m2000

I'm no expert, wishing you all the best on this one,

Common sense tells me you are in the right,

But then again common sense is not what matters,

Don't give up the fight, other wise it will happen again and a again.

 

All the best

 

Leakie

[m2000]

Do you guys think I should send a letter saying the I still deny the liability and that if they see court as the only option I will vigerously defend it?

[postggj]

Do Not Get Into Correspondants

 

You Have Allready Sent Them Your Objections

 

Let Them Make The Next Move

 

They Know You Will Now Fight If Needed

[m2000]

Hi Postggj

Cheers for that, you are right, I have shown my determination to fight it, so will let them make the next move.

I will let you all know when the court letter comes as I am convinceed they will issue that next week.

 

Thanks again

[m2000]

Hello All,

 

Urgent help needed, today I have recieved the Claim Form from the Solicitors acting on behalf of my previous Employers relating to the car upgrade costs...

 

Front Page of Claim form:

Brief details of claim

" Breach of contract - monies owed as a result of the Defendents termination of employment with the Claimant, by virtue of his resignation."

 

Value £ 4,485.32 plyus interest, see particlars of claim.

 

Amount claimed £4,734.24

Court fee £108.00

Solicitors Costs £80.00

Total amount £4922.24

 

 

 

 

Particulars of Claim:

 

 

1. The Claimant is a company speciailisng in the provision of XXXX services and is a wholly owned subsidiary of XXXXXX .

 

2. The Defendant was employed by the Claimant. This employment commenced on 31st March 2008. The Defendants most recent role within the Cliamant's firm was as a XXXXX.

 

3. On the 15th February 2008 the Defendant signed a statement of Terms and Conditions of Employment, a copy of which are attached. It was these Terms and Conditions that governed the Defendants employment with the Claimant at the time of termination.

 

4. On the 15th February 2008 the defendant also signed an addendum to those terms and conditions which related to the Claimants car policy, a copy of which is attached. By signing this acknowledgement the Defendant acknowledged that he has read and understood the Claimants car policy booklet and agreed to abide by its terms and conditions.

 

5.Section 7 of that policy booket relates to vehicle upgrades and states that " the Society will reclaim any outstanding trade up amount from any driver trading up should they leave the Society prior to the end of the contract date. For example; if you have a vehicle on a 36-month contract at £100 per month, if you leave after 18 months you will owe £1800.00. This money will be required to be repaid on leaving."

 

6. The Defendanct tendered his resignation to the Claimant in May 2009. This was accepted by virtue of the Claimants letter dated 13th May 2009. The defendants effective date of termination was 19th May 2009.

 

7. Upon leaving his employent the Defendants owed the Claimant £4,485.32, being the balance due as a result of a company car upgrade.

 

8. The Claimant has written to the Defendant on a number of occasions requesting this debt from the Defendant. A final letter before action was sent to the Defendant on 5th November 2009.

 

9. The Claimant also claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date that the debt was due for payment until the date of issue of this claim form, amounting to £248.92

 

10. The Claimant is further entitled to claim interest at the daily rate of £0.98 from the date hereof until judgement or payment, whichever is sooner.

 

AND the Claimant claims:-

 

1. £4,485.32

 

2. Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum, equivilant to £248.92 to the date of issue hereof.

 

3. Further interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum, continuing daily at the rate of £0.98 until judgment or sooner payment.

 

 

 

 

 

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!

[m2000]

little *bump*

[m2000]

Hi All...

Could really use some help with writing a defence on this

 

I have 14 days to submit "i defend" on the acknowledgment of service?? then another 14 days to submit defence?

 

Thanks in advance

[m2000]

anyone able ot help? .

[m2000]

Postggj- if you are around i could really use your help on this... have tried speaking to CAB but cannot get an appointment until March....

 

I know I need to reply to the Acknowledgement of Service stating that I want to defend the claim.. but am no up to speed with writing a defence to submit.

 

any help would be greatly appreciated

 

[elpulpo]

Sorry no one's helping ya out here, m200. It's not my area, so I wouldn't want to say. Hopefully someone will be along.

[monkeychicken]

Sorry i've not been on the site for some time -been away and also found out that i've got diabetes, brought on by stress.

 

Anyway to try and help - firstly i'd try to get legal help from Union, CAB, house insurance or any other sources.

 

Next I'd try and focus on each item to see if evry aspect of the statements the other side has made is correct and dispute the incorrect ones.

 

I'd let it go to court and argue that you are being charged for someone elses liability (the person taking over the lease should have incurred the upgrade costs).

 

Then if that is not upheld, agree to pay, but ahow that you have very little means and can only pay at the rate of £10 per week or something.

 

Let the court decide on the matter.

 

But please check it out with a lawyer, even if it is taking advantage of the usual free hour consultation that most lawyers have.

 

I'll try and think about the problem a bit more later.

good luck

[monkeychicken]

Forgot to add - I also have heard it on the grapevine that the employee who is now driving my old vehicle did indeed want the same vehicle as myself and had ordered it, it just so happened that I left and that giving him mine was a lot quicker than the lead time of 3 months.

 

It is a case of proving it tho

 

Hi you need evidence of this by way of a statement from the person who told you. Perhaps by telling them that you are being asked to pay for the new guys upgrade - try to get the stateemnt signed.

[monkeychicken]

Wait till it comes to court, then deny every aspect of their claim and ask for disclosure of the order form of the new starter (even if you have the statement mentioned in my last post).

 

Now the thing is I know Employment Tribunal procedures, but not county court. So you need to get some avice or get hold of books etc on county court procedures (Google would be a good start) and see how you can get disclosure. That should blow their case out of the water- especially as they have lied about what vehicle the new starter wanted.

 

hopethis helps

[rastinan]

I dont know if this has been looked at (sorry just skimmed through the posts), but what does the Company Car Policy actually say in regards to both standard and non standard cars?

 

Are you made aware in the policy of where to find the information of what is standard and non-standard and the associated costs behind which you choose? If so, just because the car is not new does not mean that the new starter should be exempt from these costs

 

Is there any other wording in the policy about trying to minimise costs to the employee by attempting to reassign the vehicle where possible? If so, this could very well work to your advantage.

 

Also, another thing to check for is if they have something in there in regards to a comparable alternative if the chosen car is not available. If the new starter did choose a standard car that wasnt available (possibly due to having to wait x amount of months) and they have given him your old car as an alternative simply as it was readily available (just trying to think of possible excuses that they may use) the upgraded car is not comparable alternative, and therefore either the company or the new starter should be liable for the costs.

 

To me it just seems as though they are trying to make a sweeter deal for the new starter at your expense, however, unless the company car policy has been re written since you left the company what is in there should apply to all of their employees, hence the reason to check the wording carefully to see if there is anything in there that may help you with your upcoming defence.

 

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with it, and keep us all updated with how things go!!