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Hello everybody, I am sorry if I have got this wrong, but I am not experienced in using forums, and wasnt sure how or where to post, I was going round in circles.

 

Having said that, this is a wonderful, helpful resource and thank you and all contributors for it. I will donate forthwith.

 

I have been trying to find out if I have to pay the £225 fees Marstons have plonked on top of an £80 speeding fine which I had paid £40 of to the court.

 

I am unemployed.

I could not afford to pay the original amount and was given time by the court. I paid some installments and then got into more financial trouble along with a lot of other problems and forgot about it, my fault I know but its just the truth. I have not received warning letters they say were sent to me.

 

I phoned Marstons, they said nothing they can do, you must pay in full or phone the court. I wrote to court, they said nothing we can do, contact Marstons. I have written to Marstons saying I cannot pay their fees, and I need time anyway. I think I know what their answer will be.

 

After reading as much as I can on here, I am afraid I still do not understand if I am under any legal obligation to pay Marstons any more than the original balance of the fine.

 

Am I right in saying there is a dispute amongst knowledgeable people on here as to wether or not bailiffs are entitled claim fees from people on top of the court fine if they are certified bailiffs or high court enforcement officers?

 

Thank you in advance,

 

Paul.

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Hello and Welcome, Paul.

 

I'll start a new thread for you, hopefully you'll get some help.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.


 
 

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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The official advice on bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid magistrates court fines: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex345.pdf On page 3 under Magistrates courts. It says …are not allowed to charge you more than the amount you are fined. This confirms the bailiff is swindling you by pretending he can charge his fees on to you without a contract or a Court Order.

 

The law - Section 92 of the Courts Act 2003 - only provides for HM Court Service to set up a fee agreement between itself and its enforcement contractors. The agreement allows a bailiff to deduct his fee out of the fine you pay. Without a costs order under Section 93 of the Courts Act, the bailiff cannot lawfully increase a fine by adding his fees.

 

The poster on this thread successfully had all bailiffs fees removed unchallenged after telephoning the magistrate's court and quoting the above information: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/229873-help-philips.html#post2547500

 

If a bailiff defrauds you with his fees, or is pretending to have a Section 93 Costs order then he commits an arrestable offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. It is called fraud by false representation.


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The official advice on bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid magistrates court fines: http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/ex345.pdf On page 3 under Magistrates courts. It says …are not allowed to charge you more than the amount you are fined. This confirms the bailiff is swindling you by pretending he can charge his fees on to you without a contract or a Court Order.

 

The law - Section 92 of the Courts Act 2003 - only provides for HM Court Service to set up a fee agreement between itself and its enforcement contractors. The agreement allows a bailiff to deduct his fee out of the fine you pay. Without a costs order under Section 93 of the Courts Act, the bailiff cannot lawfully increase a fine by adding his fees.

 

The poster on this thread successfully had all bailiffs fees removed unchallenged after telephoning the magistrate's court and quoting the above information: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/229873-help-philips.html#post2547500

 

If a bailiff defrauds you with his fees, or is pretending to have a Section 93 Costs order then he commits an arrestable offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. It is called fraud by false representation.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Thank you very much for your help,

Sorry, it may well be my lack of understanding but I have looked at that first link you gave, and this bit ......

 

(Fees charged by Bailiffs/Enforcement Officers

County court bailiffs the fees charged by the county courts for using the bailiffs will be added to the amount owed. Any additional costs for removing and selling goods will be added to the amount you owe.

Civilian enforcement officers (CEO’S) Magistrates’ Courts are not allowed to charge you more than the amount you are fined. However, additional costs for removing and selling goods may be added to the amount you owe.

Enforcement officers — (High Court) are entitled to charge fees and add them to the money you owe.

Certificated and non-certificated bailiffs — are entitled to charge fees and add them to the money you owe.

Certificated bailiffs — collecting council tax, community charge, distress for rent, road traffic debts and non-domestic rates, should leave a copy of the fee scales that they can charge with you when they visit your premises.

 

Bailiffs and enforcement officers are not allowed to charge you more than the amounts stated for that piece of work in the scale of fees.

There is no statutory scale of fees for bailiffs enforcing magistrates’ courts fines. You can contact the magistrates’ court direct and ask for the agreed scale of fees that bailiffs can charge.)

 

seems to say that in my case they are entitled to claim the fees on top of the fine??

Paul.

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I would say you are correct in that assumption as Marston's are operating as 'certificated and non-certificated bailiffs' in this instance.

 

Bailiffs working the HMCS contracts can be uncertificated for upto 6 months from when they commence working on the contract.

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seems to say that in my case they are entitled to claim the fees on top of the fine??

 

Paul.

 

You are correct, but only if :

 

1. You agree to pay - therefore a contract is established at common law between you and the bailiff whereby you agree to pay the bailiff his fees.

 

2. A Section 93 costs order has been applied, for example, because the bailiff has incurred additional disbursements for transporting your goods and selling them.


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You are correct, but only if :

 

1. You agree to pay - therefore a contract is established at common law between you and the bailiff whereby you agree to pay the bailiff his fees.

 

2. A Section 93 costs order has been applied, for example, because the bailiff has incurred additional disbursements for transporting your goods and selling them.

 

 

Thank You,

To my mind, according to what you say above, I do not have to pay the bailiffs fees?

Are you saying that if I have not agreed to pay, & a section 93 costs order has not been applied, then the bailiffs can definitely not charge me fee's?

I have not agreed to pay them, but have written explaining my circumstances, and asking them to remove the extra charges and allow me time to pay the fine amount.

I hope that does not constitute an offer to pay, legally? I could copy on to here the letter they sent me if that would help anyone to advise me without prejudice.

I have not heard anything about a section 93 costs order, so I am sure that has not been applied.

Obviously I cannot & would not ask anyone on here to tell me what I should do, but I am hoping I can get to a point where I can refuse to pay the bailiffs, with the confidence that the so and so's cannot get to me. As we know, they would not have an ounce of mercy for anyone if they can possibly get You in any way.

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I would say you are correct in that assumption as Marston's are operating as 'certificated and non-certificated bailiffs' in this instance.

 

Bailiffs working the HMCS contracts can be uncertificated for upto 6 months from when they commence working on the contract.

 

Thanks, that is how I read it.

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Are you saying that if I have not agreed to pay, & a section 93 costs order has not been applied, then the bailiffs can definitely not charge me fee's?

 

correct.

 

I hope that does not constitute an offer to pay, legally? I could copy on to here the letter they sent me if that would help anyone to advise me without prejudice.

 

Without prejudice? nobody here is suing you.

 

I have not heard anything about a section 93 costs order, so I am sure that has not been applied.

 

Its very rare, I have only come across a Section 92 Costs order with an HMRC case, the officer (employed civil servant) approached the bench for permission to raise an invoice for transporting a car.

 

Obviously I cannot & would not ask anyone on here to tell me what I should do, but I am hoping I can get to a point where I can refuse to pay the bailiffs, with the confidence that the so and so's cannot get to me. As we know, they would not have an ounce of mercy for anyone if they can possibly get You in any way

 

Just phone the court, ask to speak to the court office manager, read them Page 3 of the above and offer to pay the amount you are fined, say the bailiff is trying to swindle you with his fees and you have a right to ask the Parliamentary Ombudsman to intervene if the court service fails to take reasonable action against its contractor defrauding you.


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correct.

 

Without prejudice? nobody here is suing you.

 

Its very rare, I have only come across a Section 92 Costs order with an HMRC case, the officer (employed civil servant) approached the bench for permission to raise an invoice for transporting a car.

 

Just phone the court, ask to speak to the court office manager, read them Page 3 of the above and offer to pay the amount you are fined, say the bailiff is trying to swindle you with his fees and you have a right to ask the Parliamentary Ombudsman to intervene if the court service fails to take reasonable action against its contractor defrauding you.

 

Sorry, the without prejudice was just me injecting a bit of light heartedness. Don't know why I bother as it is awkward to know someone is joking or exactly what people mean or the emotions involved in this sort of environment.

 

I really do appreciate You trying to help me, but the problem I have is this constant confusion, whereby You say page 3. shows that the bailiff has unlawfully, or incorrectly tried to get fees from me, I can only see the opposite.

Could you please clear this up for me?

You say read page 3. to the court office manager. I will paste below in bold, the parts of page 3. that if I read to the court office manager, I believe will simply make the case for the bailiff.

How do bailiffs and enforcement officers recover the money you owe?

Fees charged by Bailiffs/Enforcement Officers

County court bailiffs the fees charged by the county courts for using the bailiffs will be added to the amount owed. Any additional costs for removing and selling goods will be added to the amount you owe.

Enforcement officers — (High Court) are entitled to charge fees and add them to the money you owe.

Certificated and non-certificated bailiffs are entitled to charge fees and add them to the money you owe.

Page 3

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Basically I think Nintedo is saying pay the remaining amout owed to the court for the fine and only the permitted fee for the bailiff, then give your bailiff a Xmas treat STUFF HIM if he wants the unauthorised fees then let him take you back to court and justify them.

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I believe that Nintendo is giving you incorrect advice. :rolleyes:

 

Marstons are HCEO's and Certificated Bailiffs.

 

Their fees are added to the debt and there is no ruling that their fees cannot be more than the debt. If a Bailiff has to visit you many times and you refuse payment or break an agreed arrangement then you will be liable for the fees accordingly.

 

I believe you should make an offer to the Bailiff but explain your circumstances in detail, providing proof if necessary. After all, you do admit breaking the arrangement to the court.

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Could you please clear this up for me?

 

There is currently no legislation prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid court fines.

 

No legislation and no court order means there is no legal obligation on you to pay a bailiff a fee for collecting a court fine.


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Thank you, my brother paid the outstanding fine today.

 

I do not think Nintendo said pay any fees at all, in fact he said offer to pay the fine, and complain that the bailiff is trying to swindle me with his fees.

 

What are permitted fees? As far as I can tell the fees that they are demanding are all permitted because they are certified bailiffs as it says on page 3.

 

I just do not understand why I see the wording of page 3. as saying the opposite of what Nintendo does, but because a lot of the discussion on here says they cant charge fees I do not want to accept that I have to pay. I mean how can an unexperienced person like me know better than experienced people on here.

 

By the way the bailiff only came to my house one time and left the a letter, they are demanding £225 on top of the fine.

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What are permitted fees? As far as I can tell the fees that they are demanding are all permitted because they are certified bailiffs as it says on page 3.

 

Some commentators on this forum are under an impression that holding a certificate forms a contract between himself and members of the public enabling him to charge fees carte-blanche without having a costs order.

 

A person holding a bailiffs certificate only means the person has been tested to be of good honest character, and has made over a security or insurance policy of £10,000 to protect the court or local authority creditor incase the bailiff absconds with their money. It also exclused them from committing tresspass - can peacefully enter a debtors property without the permission - this is not the same as breaking & entering.

 

The poster on this thread successfully recovered bailiffs fees after complaining to the court manager their bailiff was trying to defraud him by pretending he had a right to charge fees.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/229873-help-philips.html#post2547500


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There is currently no legislation prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid court fines.

 

No legislation and no court order means there is no legal obligation on you to pay a bailiff a fee for collecting a court fine.

 

 

Thank you Nintendo, obviously I like what you say, its what I want to be so, but does that mean that on page 3. where it says they Can charge fees, that it means just that? i.e. they can charge but there is no obligation to pay? If so it still suprises me, because officials dont seem to normally bother saying things like that where there is no point to it. It does seem like they are listing out actual rules. I cannot pay them anyway, but also I cannot afford if you are mistaken, to defy them and find out later they have the power to add even more charges for more visits and letters etc.

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Write to the court and complain. If the court wants to use a contractor for collecting its fines then its free to establish a contract with a firm of bailiffs. The court may require the bailiff to be certificated to protect the court if the bailiff embezzles money collected, but the certificate does not establish a fees contract between bailiff and debtor.

 

A costs order under Section 93 of the Courts Act is needed if a bailiff wants to charge a fee to a debtor owing an unpaid court fine.

 

If you are concerned about further fees being charged, then I will suggest you seek professional advice and show them this thread, write to the court manager and complain, if no positive response - contact the Parliamentary Ombudsman and ask them to intervene.


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