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Dear Helpers

 

I have heard nothing from the court so far since 30th January. On 15th I received the following letter by email from MK of BC in reply to my letter as per your site.: I am starting with the first paragraph because it is very long:

Dear Mrs .........

I confirn that we have removed your telephone number from our system.

 

I confirm that the ''Without Prejudice'offer made to you was made on behalf of the Claimant and awith the Claimant's full knowedge and consent. (Now unless a letter has been lost, that last email they sent had nothing of the sort). Once a Consent Order has been signed it will be enforceable against both parties to the proceedings, so you could sue our client if it did not adhere to the terms of the afreement.

This means that if our cllient does not adhere to the terms of the consent ordert you may apply to the Court to force them to comply, this makes your position stronder than if you just received a letter condirming that no further acrion will be taken on the account. Bryan Carter & Co Solicitors act the the Claimant but it is the Claimant who is making the offer and who wll be a party to it. We trust that this clarifies the issue as to who is making the offer to you. We recomment you seel independent legal advice regarding this matter.(me: When the first letter asking me to withdraw was received I contacted BC and spoke to someone who said the opposite: that BC could not promise on behalf of their client. The young man said the same when the second arrived. I have never received any letter, unless this is it, with 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE' on it and I know full well what that means)

 

BC & Co do not intend to cause you any distress, but wish to resolve the issues you have raised.

(may as well continue):

If you wish to dispose of this matter we urge you to agree the 'Without Prejusdice' offer that has been made to you in good faith, without further delay. Upon your signing and returning the Consent Order we well advise our clients to notify the credit refference agensies accordingly and a letter from Credit Account Management, who manage the account for the Claimant will be sent to you to confirm that the debt is no longer being persued and will not me sold. This cannot be done before the Consent Order is returned to us.

 

Our Claimant's position is that it has done everything it can to give you the guarantees that you seek without prejudicing its position and that there should no longer be any obstacles to you signing the consent order.

Until this matter has been settled we must continue to correspond.

 

Yours sincerely etc

 

I have received no Consent Order as yet to sign.

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Gimme a while emt, will draft a response for the muppets. A consent order is unnecessary and they are still being vague.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Thank you. I have just received their response to a very short email askiing when I should expect the 'Without Prejuduce' letter she mentioned.The same person told me that she was referring to the December letters, which I sent to the court with my comments early Jan.

 

She has attached to this a draft court order except that the ''Before District Judge' is left blank.

What she is saying :' BY CONSENT IT IS ORDERED that all further proceedings in this action be stayed upon the terms set out in the schedule hereto save for the perpose of enforcing or carrying into effect the said terms with liberty to apply for that purpose.

 

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that all parties will bear their own costs.

SCHEDULE

1. The Claimant withdraw its claim

2. The Defendant withdraw her counterclaim

3 There be no order for costs.

 

DATED this ..........................day of ....................2010

 

Signed by them at the bottom. (well by rubber stamp)

I am assuming that this is supposed to look like a court order since Oxford County Court appears at the top of the page.

It is completely different to those letters and I am not sure it is fair. They do know that I sent those two letters to the court saying I was willing to withdraw on my terms, but this does not 'feel right'.

As it came in the form of an attachment I presume they want me to sign it and send it back as therre is a space for that. I do not now see why, since they already agreed costs they should not pay them now.

 

I have received nothing from Oxford Court.

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Nope. That's trash. And it does not protect you from Phoenix selling on the debt, and makes no reference to credit reference agancies.

 

They also brought the action. They should be paying your costs, ie. your peronal time @ £9.25 an hour, plus postage/stationery etc.

 

Don't sign anything. Will concoct a suitable nasty response when I get a moment. They clearly haven't read a word you've written.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Hi EMT

 

A consent (Tomlin) order is a common enough tool, but I don't really see how it will help you. I think once again they are trying to rely on your lack of knowledge as a litigant in person. A consent order like this would absolve them of any fault/blame/liability, and that's not on. This has to be resolved in YOUR favour, with your costs met, and all the other conditions we have specified.

 

We should ask for it in writing from Phoenix just to annoy them, because I know Phoenix can't write letters...

 

Back to this later.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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That could be another fight EMT! CAG has an app for that!

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Really? I have contacted the energywatch site and sent a message. I had a bit of trouble there because you have to give an email address and there is none on the papers I have. I just guessed at it because when you are on the site you cannot break off to look in the address book. It was accepted so my memory can't be all that bad?

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Dear DonkeyB

Saturday I received the following from the Court:

 

District Judge.... has considered the statements of case and allocatioon questionaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track.

 

The hearing of the claim will take place at 14.00 on the 9th June 2010 at Oxford County Court, Ox and should take no longer than 2 hours. A hearing fee of £150 is payable by 05 March 2010 by the claimant unless you make an application for a fee concession. Failure to pay the fee will result in the hearing being removed from the list.

 

The court must be informed if the case is settled before the hearing date.

 

The eharing fee will be refunded in full if the court received notice in writing at least 7 days before the hearing date, that the case is settled or discontinnued.

 

Cases are listed in accordance with local hearing arrangements determined by the Judiciary and implemented by court staff. Every effort .................etc.

 

What happens if BC fails to send in the fee before the date? I suppose it would be an easy way out for them - by default so to speak and I will not be compensated, but perhaps that is for the best?

 

Could you comment please?

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Dear DonkeyB

Saturday I received the following from the Court:

 

District Judge.... has considered the statements of case and allocatioon questionaires filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track.

 

The hearing of the claim will take place at 14.00 on the 9th June 2010 at Oxford County Court, Ox and should take no longer than 2 hours. A hearing fee of £150 is payable by 05 March 2010 by the claimant unless you make an application for a fee concession. Failure to pay the fee will result in the hearing being removed from the list.

 

The court must be informed if the case is settled before the hearing date.

 

The eharing fee will be refunded in full if the court received notice in writing at least 7 days before the hearing date, that the case is settled or discontinnued.

 

Cases are listed in accordance with local hearing arrangements determined by the Judiciary and implemented by court staff. Every effort .................etc.

 

What happens if BC fails to send in the fee before the date? I suppose it would be an easy way out for them - by default so to speak and I will not be compensated, but perhaps that is for the best?

 

Could you comment please?

its almost sure as eggs are eggs bc wont pay or turn up,i would ring the court and ask if this senario happens how are you able to claim your costs???.

cannot believe the court case has been strung out until june!.thats bc.

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Dear Helpers

I think I might be able to shed some light on the June date:

 

When I received the order giving the stay until 30/1/10 one of the alternatives was that the stay could be lengthened but only by a max of 30 days.

 

That would have taken us to March, and I did say in the letter I wrote informing the court that BC had not agreed, that the first anniversary of my husband's death was at the beginning of March and that I did not feel that I could cope with too much at that time.

I do rather appreciate the time space. I am tired of being played about with. The funeral, too was at the end of March so perhaps our judiciary has some understanding of these things. This is the biggest loss I have experienced aside from that of losing my parents.

 

Perhaps this might be why there is a gap. I did copy the letter to BC. I posted their response.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi again. I have checked my credit report, though January is the last summary - if that is the word. It is clean and I want to keep it that way. There is nothing about this debt, and the only mention of JD Williams was settled 2005, though the amount is not the same as they are claiming. I have not bought anything since from them. Should I keep checking in case they add it illegally?

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hi EMT. Anything happening here? Have you heard from Carter?

 

He should have paid the court fee by now - suggest you contact the court to see if he has. If not, ask the court if they will be striking out the claim for non-payment. If they do, you will automatically win your counterclaim!

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Hello Donkey B, I am so pleased that you have been thinking of me. The first anniv. of my husband's death, burial, and then his birthday this month has taken their toll, but I have not stopped thinking about what BC are doing. Truth to tell, I have not replied to their last request that I should come to an agreement - but sign the form before they do. As you said, everything they have said is ambiguous. Not once have they put in writing, clearly that they have no wish to persue me if I cancel the counterclaim.

 

Although I have not replied to that, I emailed the court asking if they had sent mail I had not received, because I had received an email from BC with an attachment form to sign headed up ''Oxford County Court...'' and asking if they had correspondence that I did not have.

 

I have heard nothing from BC.

Curiously, just two days ago while searching for something, I found a misfiled letter from BC dated 20 Nov. 2008. (I think this is the month they go to town on anyone they think they can attack.)

This letter said that court proceedings will be issued on 27/11/08 if I do not pay the alleged debt of £2130.00. (It has not changed much.)

 

With it was a letter from ''intrum justitia, PO Box 7182 Harlow CM195WF I told them (cannot find my written reply, unless it was only the telephone call I made) The person I spoke to asked if I still had the TV, and said I had not because it was returned to GUS, he said to me ''We are sorry to have bothered you. You will not be hearing from us on this matter ever again, so please do not worry about it.'' so I did not, and heard nothing again until last year. My conversation was, I am sure, with BC and not intrum justitia, but I can check back on the telephone bills to see if I have that record.

On the site for the TV, the item number says it is a plasma TV, but my records show it was described as LCD. In itself I suppose it means little, except that I now understand the engineer's comments about the tubes showing through the screen better, as far as I know LCD's do not have tubes. It was returned because the picture was distorted by being divided into three parts!!

 

I will email the court as you suggest, though if my counterclaim goes through alone, I would have been asked to pay the fee. At the start I misunderstood the fees payable and sent two cheques - one for £80 and one for £35. The latter was returned to me with a note saying it was only payable if I continued with the action alone. On the All.Qu form I put that I would not continue with the counterclaim if I could be sure that no-one would persue me again.

Do you think they would have informed me to pay the money again?

 

On another note, British Gas has re-instated my electric wiring insurance and have admitted that there was no report from the engineer saying I needed the house re-wired. It pays to keep ALL the service/repair job sheets given by engineers. In fact, we always kept everything for years.

I think they were annoyed because a few years ago I cancelled the DD for gas because they were taking so much from our account that we ended up in credit to the tune of £800+ and received a refund of £603! At that time, I looked up all the records and found that every year we were in credit by daft amounts which they had refunded. There is no way I shall allow them to borrow free money from me!!

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Good. Let us know what the court says. It's always best to be proactive in these things, especially with a slimeball like Carter ;)

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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  • 1 month later...

Dear Firends

Today I received the followiing letter:

Dear Mrs ...

We have tried to resolve this matter with you and we understand that you were prepared to withdraw your counterclaim providiing the Claimant discontinued the claim but the matter does not seem to have progressed. (note: there has not been any more correspondence since the last I posted)

 

With the hearing approaching we are offering you one last chance to settle the account with the enclosed cheque of £300. If you accept this cheque then please sign the enclosed consent order and return it to us in the stamped addressed envelope provided. You are free to take independent legal advice before signing the same should you wish.

 

If you do not accept this offer then the Claimant will instruct us to continue with the claim and we will proceed and instruct a barrister to represent them at the hearing.

(beware of Greeks bearing gifts?)

 

We attach with this letter a letter from Credit Account Management who administer the debt on behalf of Phoenix Recoveries. They have authority to deal with this matter on Phoenix Recoveries behalf and as you will see they agree to this settlement we have offered and will also ensure that if you accept the account will be written off permanently.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

This is the accompanying letter:

 

R.E. Shop Direct. Great Universal Account.............

 

We are writing on behalf of Phoenix Recoveries in relation to ...........and have the authority to deal with this matter on their behalf.

 

We agree with the proposal to make payment and are willing to make a payment to you of £300, withdraw all claims against you and write off the debt and ensure that you credit record is clear providiing you withdraw your counterclaim.

(note: are they still claiming the existence of it?)

 

Please inform BC Solicitors if you accept this offer.

 

We apologise to you completely for any upset or inconvenience caused.

 

Yours sincerely

 

The letter is accompanied by a copy of the ''consent order'' I posted previously and which they want me to sign. Since it is headed ''..... County Court''.

 

This offer is similar to my final settlement cheque in 2006 which GUS accepted then changed their minds. By making this offer they are surely accepting that I was right in 2006. If they are not, then thier final offer is a sham. I suppose they will never entirely give in.

 

I am inclined to settle for the 10% for health reasons. It was not about the money really, just stopping them from persuing me. It does seem that they will never persue me again, and that is all I ever wanted.

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It depends entirely on you now. You have them by the short and curlies :D

 

My personal recommendation would be to bank the cheque and frame the letters :D

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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EMT, I'm away at the moment but it looks like you have won.

 

Could some seasoned caggers have a look at the original consent order? I think if you accept it now, they have made it clear in the accompanying letter that you bear no fault, that the 'account' will disappear, your credit record will remain unblemished, and you will receive a payment of £300.

 

The existence of the debt - or not - is a moot point now. I feel that if they tried to sell this account on they would have a big problem.

 

They are clearly worried about this going to trial. The barrister bit is designed to scare you.

 

Were these letters marked 'without prejudice'?

 

That's my reading of it, anyway.

 

The alternative is to rewrite the consent order to include a clause that defines that the debt never actually existed, or to proceed to court and proceed with your counterclaim.

 

Or simply wait for their discontinuation - if they discontinue, you automatically win your counterclaim which would cost them £1,000 or so, as I recall. I do not believe they would dare take this to court, but the final decision is up to you. There's £300 on the able now.

 

You could push for more, but I guess you will be pleased to put this all behind you.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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My reaction was to frame it too! The letters are not headed 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE'. Perhaps they forgot!!

The 'Consent Order' read, headed 'In the ....... County Court' and listing the claim number etc., but not going so far as to actually mimic an offiial heading:

 

UPON the parties having reached agreed terms of settlement

 

BY CONSENT IT IS ORDERED that all further proceedings in this action be stayed upon the terms set out in the schedule hereto save for the purpose of enforcing or carrying into effect the said terms with liberty to apply for that purpose.

 

AND IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that all parties will bear their own costs

 

SCHEDULE;

 

1. The Claimant pay the defendent the sum of three hundred pounds (£300)

 

2. The Claimant withdraw its claim.

 

3. The defendabt withdraw her Counterclaim.

 

4. There will be no order for costs.

 

(my counterclaim was for £3,000. I considered that fair for four years persistent threats from them, then withdrawing it, then starting it again

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Just a thought: If and when the Judge makes such an order along those lines, how will it appear in the order to me? Will the Court produce the same document? My only hesitation is that this is amateurish.

'...the terms set out in the schedule hereto' refer I suppose to the two letters and cheque, though the Consent Order does not spell it out, I would accept that intention?

I am having difficulty putting it into words, but would the consent order be acceptable to the Court if I signed it as is? I have not had this experience before. If it will be accepted by the court, then 'who am I to disagree?' as the song goes?

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Would be a very good idea to start a thread in the legal issues forum with a link to this asking your questions ;)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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