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BC is a law unto himself :rolleyes:

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

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I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

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I think it's worth sitting tight for a few days and waiting for a response from Carter.

 

Remember, withdrawing is not good enough - Phoenix must agree NOT to sell the debt on again. That is why they are wriggling.

 

To summarise:

 

1 At present, they are continuing legal action on a debt you disputed. They should have taken note of your dispute and not commenced action. That goes against CPR (court/litigation protocol) and OFT debt collection guidelines.

 

2 In accordance with the court's direction, you have asked Carter to discontinue and assure you that the alleged account will NOT be sold on by Phoenix. Although they have offered to withdraw, they have not given an undertaking that the alleged debt will NOT be sold on. This is not good enough for you, as they have failed to prove there is any debt and you believe the harassment will continue otherwise.

 

3 The judge has extended the deadline for a settlement to be reached. Carter has still not replied in any way to your proposals made prior to the first court deadline.

 

Is that correct? If he fails to reply to your latest email (he may deny receiving it), a simple letter (recorded delivery) to Carter asking for a response to your proposal WITHIN 7 DAYS will suffice, further stating that a failure to respond will be reported to the court as such. State also that in such circumstances you would be requesting a strike out of the claim, and summary judgment in your favour on the counterclaim. Should wake the t*sser up.

 

From the directions so far, it looks as if the judge thinks Carter is on to a loser.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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I wonder if pheonix know what BC is upto?

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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I wonder if Phoenix care... that's if there really is anyone working at Phoenix.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Dear DonkeyB

Thank you for your reply. The first deadline was Jan 4th. Carter rang me before that date and agreed on the phone to everything I asked. I asked him to confirm it by email. He only did that on his own behalf, not his client's.

So he did actually reply before the first deadline date of 4th Jan. Copies of the correspondence were sent by me to the court on 2nd January (first avalable post). They reached the court in time, and the stay was ordered on 7th Jan. The court therefore knows that he has not agreed to my terms despite his promise. I also sent his letter promising to pay my expenses if I withdraw my counterclaim.

 

When I received the first Court summons I asked him why, after all these years they were issuing the claim. His reply was 'because you haven't been sued before'. What sort of a reason is that?

 

I will take your advice and sit tight a little longer. There is still just under a fortnight to go. I am amazed by the whole affair.

 

I did list on the original questionaire all the correspondence I have had since 2005, although the questionaire did advise against sending the documentation at that stage.

 

Perhaps Carter are attempting to produce documentation against this? Are they hoping that I will send them copies of all mine with this questionaire first, before they send me theirs? How ridiculous. It would just serve to prove my point.

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A reminder: re email carter sent 31/12/2009:

 

What bothered me about that email (here page 4) was that they wanted me to discontinue first. They did promise I would not be persued for payment by Phoenix or anyone connected to them. It was not a promise not to sell it on.

 

If it could have been interpreted as such, would the court have contacted me and said so or are they not allowed to do that?

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Your requirements are clear. Carter can only approach the court regarding a settlement with your agreement.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Thank you. In 2006 the CAB gave me some encouragement, having looked at the correspondence then and remarked on the lack of that coming from GUS.

 

Had they not accepted my order for a replacement TV which they sent, thereby enabling me to deduct the cost of the returned one from the outstanding balance I would have taken them to court myself. As it was, I sent them a letter and cheque for the balance in final settlement. The fact that they accepted it and paid it into their bank is, to my mind a settlement.

 

Had they returned the cheque and said ''not on your nelly'' then I would have had this problem then and not now. Am I right?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Please can someone give me some more advice?

 

I have received no answer from either BC or their client Phoenix to my emailed letter and therre are now just four days for the Stay to run.

 

I feel so inadequate. The first of this standard order is for the claimant to notify the court that the whole of the claim has been settled. I have no idea at present as I have not received anything from them.

 

At what stage then should I send anything to the court and what should I send? A request for an extension of the stay period? At least that will be accepted for a further month and I will not have to go through all this month after month.

I do not want it to go into March because the 3rd will be the first anniversary of my husband's death and I really don't think I will be up to it.

 

The third alternative is that we both file a completed allocation questionaire at the court. Should I do this before the 30th Jan? I first have to apply for the form and it is too late to return it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Spot on EMT. Sorry for lack of comment - you're doing everything right so far. Well done for copying in the court.

 

Carter is not being very clever with your case.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Mr Carter, being a solicitor, is congenitally unable to admit that he has made a mistake. Hence the lack of any response.

 

It also likely that Phoenix is not responding to him so he is caught in the middle like a rabbit on the highway. Tee hee.

I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

You can also ding my gong if you prefer. :)

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Thank you so much for your words of encouragement. It is difficult for me to understand it all, though I suppose they do not know that I had so many records surrounding this subject.

 

I have a small mortgage and 2 yrs on the windows to go and the payments have never been late. Everything is paid by DD and until I sort out finances on one income instead of two it is sometimes overdrawn but never by more than my limit. I have no debts. I just have the house now and am hoping to sell it and move ASAP to the village where I laid George to rest, in another county.

 

I have to resolve this as selling the house will be a nightmare with this hanging over me.

 

Because we were always so interested in gradual changes and costs, we kept all our financial records and utilities, etc and they make very interesting reading, but have also stood us in good stead.

 

For instance, when I received a gas bill a few years ago which showed us £800 + in credit and eventually received over £600 refunded, we looked through all the previous years and found that they had consistently taken more by DD regardless of how much they had. Each year it was over, and we had received refunds. By showing six years of gas bills we were able to list each payment and each bill. It was horrifying really, because it meant that we were loaning them free money over a long period of time. Had we not kept tight records we would not have realised the extent of it all. It was not the only case either and I do urge everyone to keep their records longer than 5 years.

 

I know this is not the place to cause a diversion, but something happened at Christmas which may be very important to you all, even though it has been settled, I hope, amicably. Because of the above account I cancelled the gas DD. I kept the electric and service accounts. In Dec 2009 I received a bill which had to be paid by 23rd. I remembered the date but lost the bill, whichwas for, say, £95. I rang the automatic paying number thinking that this would tell me how much it was exactly.

 

What I did not realise at the time was that I had picked up an electric bill and the account number was different. It told me I owed £70+ so that is what I paid. In January I received a telephone call telling me I had not paid and owed £21+ (some pennies) and asked me to GIVE MY BANK DETAILS AND PAY THEM NOW, indicating strong arm tactics. WELL I DO NOT GIVE ANY INFO TO ANYONE WHOEVER THEY SAY THEY ARE, so I got onto the gas immediately and asked them if it was them AND THEY SAID IT WAS, AND THAT IT WAS TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO PAY UP SO THAT THEY WILL NOT GET INTO DEBT. I was furious. I told him that I had paid the bill, so how could I have owed them such an odd amount?

 

I asked then if I had made a mistake and paid the electric, but he said no because that was in credit. I paid the piddling little amount and then sent them an email. Eventually they admitted that I had phoned the electric account and they had given me a figure which was in credit. Apparently the accounts department had spotted this and transferred the £70+ from the electric to the gas and it was £21+ short so they implemented their new system and demanded the money on the telephone. I sent another email telling them what I thought again and they did ring me.

 

I have to admit that with all their emails etc, they do actually read them. It was cleared up, BUT I AM CONCERNED THAT THEY SHOULD THINK IT RIGHT TO RING PENSIONERS, OR ANYONE, TO DEMAND THEIR BANK DETAILS, INCLUDING THE SECURITY NUMBER, ON THE TELEPHONE. It did not even strike them as funny that the amount was so odd. I had made saving fuel a priority and since George died I used less gas and wore more clothes. In the summer I turned it off completely and had a bill for less than £3. I told them that I was not cutting down because of lack of money but because there was only me now, and the gas had been on continuously when we were two. It had occurred to me that because I had cut down they were concerned I could not pay? THAT IS NO EXCUSE EITHER. They want another DD but I refused. I said I would ring them each bill and would not use the automata either.

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Dear Helpers

I had no post today. In fact I have had no word from BC for a month. Perhaps the Judge has told them to get their finger out.

 

This evening a telephone call from BC employee. Makes me sort of squirm a bit. Sounding desperate to talk to resolve the matter and said that the Courts look kindly on those going for mediation, implying that I was against it.

 

I thought that was what I was doing in my replies to the orders.

 

What puzzles me is that she told me that their client is included in 'them' so to speak, but I do not think so, and suggested that their offer to me meant that they were doing a deal with me behind their client's back and that if I withdraw it does not stop Phoenix appointing other solicitors.

 

Surely unless they say so, their offer cannot possibly include Phoenix as well. She said that as they were acting for Phoenix anything they decided on their own covered their client as well. I did say, rightly or wrongly, that if I made a claim and appointed a solicitor to act I would expect to be consulted before they went behind my back. I am still doubtful. She will ring me tomorrow - afternoon as I don't like morning calls.

 

I am further puzzled by their reluctance to respond to me in writing. I said that being disabled the DDA says they must make special effort to respond as telephone conversations are not easy for me to record and what was wrong with email correspondence. She seemed not to know about the DDA.

 

I do. The Disability Rights Commission took up a case for me when I could not get my wheelchair into a building which had a ramp alonside the door without enough turning space at the top to pass through it.

 

I wonder what they received in the post? Perhaps mine will come tomorrow.

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tem them "EVERYTHING IN WRITING" and to stop phoning , and you will make your request of this known to the court etc

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Spot on kiptower. Everything in writing, AS PREVIOUSLY REQUESTED.

 

If Carter says that a letter from them is as good as one from Phoenix, then why can't he refer to Phoenix in a letter that says there will be no further action and the alleged account will not be sold on? What's his problem?

 

Excuse the rhetoric - had enough of people like that today!

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Dear DonkeyB and Kiptower

 

My sentiments entirely. I have to admit though, that until you pointed out to me that they WERE NOT AGREEING WITH MY TERMS I thought they were!

 

All the pretence of trying to make it easier for me - uggh! '' I just want to settle this over the telephone so that it can be over for you''.

 

I am beginning to hope i win on the counterclaim. Two and a half % will be winging it's way to you, and a bit more to Haiti

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Email this:

 

Dear Knobheads

 

Your representative Mr Xxxxx Xxxxx called me at XX.Xxpm today, 9 February.

 

I very much doubt the sincerity of your 'kind offer' and magnaminity in proposing to settle the issues by telephone, so that "it can be over" for me. Please respect my request for all correpondence to be in writing, and remove my telephone details permanently from your records. Your false concern for my welfare is humbug: after all, it is you who initiated this action. You are not doing me any favour.

 

As previously stated - numerous times - I look forward to receiving you letter confirming that the alleged debt is non-existent and unproven, that I will receive no further contact from Bryan Carter and Co nor Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Ltd Sarl, and that Phoenix will not sell the alleged account to any other party.

 

Failing this, I shall report your lack of meaningful response to my perfectly reasonable proposals to the court, and will have no alternative but to continue with my defence and counterclaim.

 

Please be aware that any further telephone calls from you will result in complaints to the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Office of Fair Trading.

 

Yours etc

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Are you serious I certainly will if acceptable, though I don't think 'knobheads' is quite the thing it is not far removed from what said clamly on the telephone today!

 

On the question of telephone calls do you suppose it is coincidence that I am phoned several times a week by those automatic recordiings advising me on what to do about debt? I don't have any that I know of and I let them rant on and press '9' at the end. There is another message which does not give the opportunity to press a button so I just leave it off the hook for a while.

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Sorry EMT, the "knobheads" bit should of course be edited out, but written in invisible ink across the whole letter ;)

 

But apart from that, let them know you are fed up and mean business.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Dear DonkeyB

 

Before I could send your letter to BC I fell asleep and woke late in the morning so that I did not send it before Josie Tait (BC) rang again. She said that the email sent to me on 29/12/2009 embraced all my terms and I explained that the email I sent them and copied to the court before the 4/1/10 order date was still awaiting a reply from them.

 

She denied this. I have sent your letter to them and hope to receive a reply soon - in writing.

 

I am still awaiting the Judge's decision. I have a feeling that perhaps they have received something that I am still waiting for. Perhaps they missed the deadline date?

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EMT, I don't think we've seen the email from BC of 29 December.

 

Can you post its contents so we can prepare a suitable response, or adapt the one already done?

 

Clearly the court hasn't thought it a suitable response - either that, or they didn't tell the court because they knew it was insufficient. If it had met your requirements, ie. unconditional acknowledgment of no debt, no CRA reporting and no selling on, then that would have been the end of the matter.

 

Get Carter - yup! By the short and curlies.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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Dear DonkeyB

 

I am so sorry. The email referred to was sent on 31st December. That is the only one I have had and of course the Court Order was for 4th January.

 

I have hogged your time so much it is back a few pages. What they said was:

 

We confirm that once the matter is discontinued you will not be pursued further by Phoenix Recoveries or anybody else acting on their behalf. We will reimburse you the cost of your counterclaim fee if you provide us with proof of payment''

 

As you pointed out when I felt jubilant: they did not agree to my terms.

 

I am very sorry for the mistake in the date.

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Exactly. That does NOT say that Phoenix will not sell on the alleged account, or acknowledge that the debt is non-existent. Also, there's no mention of credit reference agencies.

 

And you want it in a letter. I'll have a look at producing a letter that spells it out for them - so all they have to do is cut and paste, and send it to you.

 

Might even put something in about unnecessary stress etc and requesting recompense.

 

Hang fire...

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

If a Cagger helps you, click their star. Better still, make a donation however small, so that CAG can continue to help others.

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