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Hi EMT. There's clearly been a bit of a cock-up regarding the thread ID - this is someone else's thread, so bear with us till it's sorted. Apologies on behalf of the forum. We're all here to help, and we will.

 

You have a strong case. Please do not worry about this. Carter is a bully and, frankly, a tw*t, so we shall see him off.

 

You're in good hands. It's late, so tomorrow should bring riches!

 

Donkey

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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That's why we're here emt. Hundreds of us - all on your side. It's a tiny glitch which will be sorted x

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Quite likely - but we look at every case on its merits and, more importantly, in terms of the law - because that's the only way you can really win.

 

Please get some rest, and I'm sure tomorrow will bring a rash of Caggers with great advice. You have nothing to fear. That's a promise!

Edited by DonkeyB

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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OK, knuckles cracked... a couple of queries in red, then my comments below. Re-paragraphed for easy reference!

I purchased a catalogue item in 2004 which was 'not suitable for purpose', being faulty and informed the catalogue. It took them months to come and the engineer told me it was a manufacturing fault and under guarantee, but he could not get it in his vehicle, saying he would return. Eventually the TV was collected. Did you get a receipt for this? Do you still have the serial number?

 

I contacted Trading Standards, Which? Legal and CAB. All told me the same and advised on the standard letter. I gave them the deadline date for either repair or replacement. I sent them notice and heard nothing.

 

I ordered another TV which they sent, in 2005. I bought nothing more.

 

In 2006 I deducted the cost of the item I returned and sent them a cheque for the balance which they paid in. I have all the paperwork. I feel that if I sent a cheque and letter in final settlement that should be enough.

 

However a few months later I received a default notice! Each year since I have had these from different collection agencies. Each year I explained and was told I would not be bothered. Did you get this in writing?

 

The last time was 15 months ago. Then I get a letter from Bryan Carter, followed swiftly by a summons in the Northampton Bulk Claims. I telephoned them and asked if they were serious. They said they were, so I immediately lodged a counterclaim for more than the value of the TV I returned. Why did you counterclaim for more than its value?

I have paid for the replacement so do not see why I should pay for both of them. Someone made a clerical error somewhere along the line.

 

When they received notice of my counterclaim BC immediately wrote asking me to withdraw it, promising they would not bother me again if I signed it. I asked advice on this and was told that they can pass it on to another firm of collectors, so I signed the letter with my terms and sent it to the Court (in the meantime I have the case transferred out of Northampton to my local court).

 

I spoke to BC by phone and they said they would have to ask their clients. Then I received another letter repeating the first but this time threatening to send it to the court to prove that I was not willing to settle. I told them I had sent their first letter to the court with my conditions. This was the first letter I received from BC which was not a rubber stamp signature and no 'pp' either. I mentioned this to the court.

 

Also they sent me a copy of the Allocation Form. This is normal - you should have sent them a copy of your AQ which you returned to the court.

 

When I attempted to use the email address they gave I did not get a reply. I spoke to them again and they said 'would you like the correct address?' and took it down over the phone. I sent them an email giving my terms. It was acknowledged. Yesterday I sent a further email. This time the acknowledgement had 'maybe spam' in the address. I have no idea what this means. Don't worry - just your email trying to filter out rubbish (like Carter!). Interesting that Carter is deliberately giving out a false email address so he can deny receiving emails! That's worth a complaint to the OFT and SRA.

 

I have given them 7 days to respond. Now I maintain that if they were instructed by Phoenix to make a deal, why should they refuse to add to the letter they wish me to sign 'We promise not to sell/pass the 'debt' on to anyone else and never to bother me again'? Because that would mean they have a 'debt' worth nothing and would have to justify to their client why they have b*ggered up the case and actually cost them money.

 

That is all I ask because I have had enough of this. I have been disabled, this time, since 1987 and am 69,and was newly widowed this year. I cannot walk far and use a wheelchair. I have a heart condition and have informed them of this. Bryan Carter wouldn't care, I'm afraid.

 

Now I am wondering: why should I withdraw my counterclaim? Simple - don't withdraw. You have the evidence to prove BC will not listen to you. Your counterclaim claim is valid.

 

I have all the correspondence, including a letter from the CAB and info sent by Trading Standards and the dictation over the phone from Which?

 

The court has made an order that we should inform them in writing by 4th January that we have come to a settlement, because I sent them BC's first letter with my terms. I am still awaiting BC's agreement. I have been told on good authority that if I do ahead and sign the letter without my terms they can come back every year and repeat the process. I cannot face that. In fact, I doubt whether I shall even be here by then.

 

 

EMT, you have done everything right so far. As of now, the ball is in Bryan Carter's court. It may be worth sending a copy of the email by post, recorded delivery, because I suspect he will deny receiving the email.

 

For now, there is little else you can do. You have informed BC of the situation and he has to prove differently. You have excellent records, so if it does get anywhere near court, CAG members can help and/or accompany you.

 

Your counterclaim should include the costs of your time in preparing your defence at £9.25 an hour. You can do this at present as no track has been set for the claim.

 

Carter is clearly being unreasonable here. He doesn't want to settle for the reason mentioned above - he will have to justify to his client why your concerns were ignored and the matter ended up in court. As you say, they could sell the debt on (even though it's non-existent).

 

You may also want to check your credit record to see if the default has been recorded, and who by. There may be grounds for compensation (possibly £1,000) for damage to your credit record.

 

For the meantime, just send a copy of your proposal by post and wait. Do everything in writing from now on, no phone calls at all.

 

Little more you can do except have a peaceful Christmas.

 

Donkey

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Can I ask what the diabolical thing was that arrived in the post?

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Need to take a step back, EMT - whose name was the claim form issued in? Was it Shop Direct?

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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That may be their way of denying receipt. However, it was acknowledged. Post it anyway.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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OK, so the account has been sold by GUS to Phoenix. SDFC (Shop Direct) is, no doubt, a 'compartment' of Phoenix, and is Carter's 'client'. Have a look here for a story about Carter and Phoenix:

 

HETHERINGTON: Daughter in tears over debt threat | Mail Online

 

Did you ever receive from GUS a Notice of Assignment, ie. an official letter telling you they had 'sold' the alleged account? Was any form of default notice sent? These are important issues.

 

The balance seems high - is this the value of the disputed TV, or has it had interest and charges added? If you don't know, we'll have to send a subject access request to GUS to gather all the information they have on the alleged account, such as payments made and contact by you - this will cost £10.

 

They cannot get a judgment now in court as they have admitted they do not have the correct paperwork. So we have four objectives:

 

(1) To get Carter to discontinue

(2) To make Carter agree that the debt does not exist and that on discontinuance it will NOT be sold on

(3) To have any adverse information about you removed from your credit file

(4) To seek compensation for your 'injuries' and any damage to your credit file, whether by counterclaim or costs

 

The first two points are in hand.

 

To address points 3 and 4 you will have to get a copy of your credit report. The easiest way to do this is to send £2 to Experian - don't do it online as they will want your card details and tie you in knots when you want to stop paying.

 

We shall see this odious little man off, EMT, don't worry. I expect you are a senior citizen of a certain age and traditional values, and I have no doubt that Peter Hetherington would like to hear from you!

Edited by DonkeyB

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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There palomino, I've edited it to make your post look nonsensical!

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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On reflection, if they are continuing to demand money for goods they will not return to you (!) then they have effectively stolen your TV. I think I might look at another approach to this. Another way of looking at it is that they are demanding, through the courts, payment for goods not supplied.

 

I note you have received no notice of assignment regarding the sale of the account from GUS to Phoenix.

 

Also, for clarity (and I'm sure you know) Bryan Carter is Fredrickson's in-house 'solicitor' and is therefore, technically, Carter's client. Fredrickson's client is Phoenix.

 

In the meantime, as babybear says, the media would take a very strong interest in this - Carter has not taken notice of your protests and has issued a claim. Has all the hallmarks of the story from the Mail posted earlier.

 

EMT, it's a shame you wouldn't really feel up to attending court, but if it comes to it please don't be afraid to go - a judge would absolutely murder Carter over this, and you'd have a queue of Caggers willing to act on your behalf as a litigation friend. I think many barristers would happily represent you pro bono given the high profile such a case could attract.

 

Hope you're reading this Carter, you despicable slimy unscrupulous low-life b*stard. You bring the most absolute and indefensible shame on your profession.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Well EMT, all you can do is give them the seven days. If there's no response, then we'll help you draft a letter for the court which you can copy to Carter. It won't be a nice letter!

 

In the meantime, relax as best you can and let us know of any further developments.

 

 

(Edit: Donkey slaps own hoof. TONY Hetherington. Write out 500 times... Peter Hetherington writes for The Grauniad!)

Edited by DonkeyB

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Best call the Mail Online on 020 7938 6000 and ask for a contact email for Tony Hetherington. If you tell them of your disability and you need to email, I'm sure they will help. Normally he only accepts questions in writing (not terribly modern!).

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Alas Jogs, the law says it can. It simply needs a UK contact/representative.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Another thought.

 

As SDFC have wriiten to you (unbidden) to admit that there is no enforceable CCA, then I am sure that if the letters for the judge of 4 January have no effect, then strike out is the way to go.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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EMT, Shop Direct is just another name for Phoenix - it's what these luxemburgers call one of their 'compartments'. It's designed to confuse. The debt still belongs to Phoenix; Fredrickson is the DCA chasing you on their behalf, and Carter is Fred's solicitor. Sorry if it's confusing!

 

No laws have been broken in passing the debt on - only 'guidelines'. But that doesn't really matter. We must concentrate on the law, and not on the apparent injustice and treachery shown by Carter & Co. Because it's by using the law that we shall sort this out for you. Again, that's a promise!

 

For now, just wait for any reply from Carter - please ensure that, as advised, you have also posted by recorded delivery, a copy of the email content. This is VERY IMPORTANT!

 

Donkey

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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EMT, just leave off the whisky.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Quite agree Boo, and of course please help as much as you can (and always do) - especially as I shall now be drunk for a week.

 

However, the W*ybridge W*nker has already issued a claim and court proceedings are ongoing. As usual, if only people found CAG sooner.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Quite right BB.

 

EMT, you must INSIST they abide by your original request, that they discontinue AND agree not to sell the alleged debt on, and to ensure that there is no record of this on your credit file.

 

As we thought, they are hiding behind the 'we didn't get your email' excuse - that's why we always say put it in writing, recorded, by post.

 

If they do not agree to your very reasonable terms, then let them know you will be advising the judge of their reluctance to agree to your very simple terms. Then see you in court, losers...

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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How I wish you could record their blatant lies!

 

Clearly they are still trying to mislead you. As BC are acting for Phoenix/SD, it is well within their scope and remit to negotiate the points - that's what being a solicitor is all about!

 

Let's see what the email brings... let's rely only on things you get in writing, and leave nothing to chance. Carter is a slippery eel when it comes to decency and honesty.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Hold on, hold on....

 

They have not agreed to your terms. This is NOT what was required.

 

"We confirm that once the matter is discontinued you will not be pursued further by Phoenix Recoveries or anybody else acting on their behalf."

 

They have NOT stated that the debt will not be sold on to someone else.

 

You must refuse this offer, EMT. Phoenix will simply sell the debt on and the whole thing will start again with someone else.

 

You must reply and insist that they give an undertaking that the alleged debt will NOT be sold on.

 

Typical f***ing Carter slipperiness.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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LIP = litigant in person.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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You must also insist that any references to the alleged debt are removed from your credit record.

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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EMT, send them something like this, subject to comments from other Caggers and adding in bits such as costs:

 

Dear F*ckwits

 

You have clearly misunderstood he situation. Let me once again reiterate the terms on which I require this matter to be settled.

 

1. You will discontinue the claim.

 

2. You will give me an assurance that in future I will not hear from either yourselves or any representative of Phoenix/SD regarding this alleged debt.

 

3. Your will provide an undertaking that Phoenix/SD will NOT sell on this alleged account to a third party.

 

4. That your client remove any reference to this non-existent debt with credit reference agencies.

 

5. That you will refund in full my counterclaim costs of £xx, plus all reasonable litigant in person costs which I calculate at £92.50 to date (ten hours' research/work @ £9.25ph).

 

6. That these conditions are presented to the court by 4pm on 4 January.

 

I will not accept settlement without all of these terms being agreed by you and your client.

 

Yours etc

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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Any news EMT? Did Carter comply?

 

(Are bears catholic? Do popes sh1t in the woods?)

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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30 Jan 1910? Damn, missed the deadline...

“The industry is rotten to the core, whether it is in-house recovery and collection, or where agents are used, or where the debt has been sold.” Andrew Mackinley MP, House of Commons, 22 April 2009

 

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