Phoenix/Carter Claimform - old GUS Shop Direct Cat Debt - returned faulty TV .**CLAIM DISMISSED**

[babybear39]

Dito...

[emtdickson]

Thank you for this info. I shall certainly look into it.

I have sent an email to BC asking them to consult their client as to what they are intending to do re the last Court Order.

The first choice is for BC and their clients Phoenix to notify the court of settlement by 30th January, which is beginning to run at a gallop! How does that fit in with the second and third choice?

If Phoenix do not move until, say, 29th Jan, what time is there to move for a stay extension or to complete more allocation questionnaires?

I sent copies of all the correspondence with BC to the court in time, including their half-hearted attempts to persuade me to withdraw my counterclaim.

Is it not clear that by playing this game they are proving the emotional distress I have gone through in the last five years?

BC sent the email saying they will not bother me again if I withdraw.

Since it was obviously not on behalf of Phoenix, is Phoenix aware that their solicitors decided to abandon them?

I wish I could express myself clearer.

I cannot think it acceptable for a solicitor to tell a defendant that they will no longer work for their client (Phoenix) without informing the client first?

[babybear39]

BC is a law unto himself

[DonkeyB]

I think it's worth sitting tight for a few days and waiting for a response from Carter.

 

Remember, withdrawing is not good enough - Phoenix must agree NOT to sell the debt on again. That is why they are wriggling.

 

To summarise:

 

1 At present, they are continuing legal action on a debt you disputed. They should have taken note of your dispute and not commenced action. That goes against CPR (court/litigation protocol) and OFT debt collection guidelines.

 

2 In accordance with the court's direction, you have asked Carter to discontinue and assure you that the alleged account will NOT be sold on by Phoenix. Although they have offered to withdraw, they have not given an undertaking that the alleged debt will NOT be sold on. This is not good enough for you, as they have failed to prove there is any debt and you believe the harassment will continue otherwise.

 

3 The judge has extended the deadline for a settlement to be reached. Carter has still not replied in any way to your proposals made prior to the first court deadline.

 

Is that correct? If he fails to reply to your latest email (he may deny receiving it), a simple letter (recorded delivery) to Carter asking for a response to your proposal WITHIN 7 DAYS will suffice, further stating that a failure to respond will be reported to the court as such. State also that in such circumstances you would be requesting a strike out of the claim, and summary judgment in your favour on the counterclaim. Should wake the t*sser up.

 

From the directions so far, it looks as if the judge thinks Carter is on to a loser.

[babybear39]

I wonder if pheonix know what BC is upto?

[DonkeyB]

I wonder if Phoenix care... that's if there really is anyone working at Phoenix.

[emtdickson]

Dear DonkeyB

Thank you for your reply.

The first deadline was Jan 4th. Carter rang me before that date and agreed on the phone to everything I asked. I asked him to confirm it by email. He only did that on his own behalf, not his client's.

he did actually reply before the first deadline date of 4th Jan.

Copies of the correspondence were sent by me to the court on 2nd January (first available post).

They reached the court in time, and the stay was ordered on 7th Jan.

The court therefore knows that he has not agreed to my terms despite his promise.

I also sent his letter promising to pay my expenses if I withdraw my counterclaim.

When I received the first Court summons I asked him why, after all these years they were issuing the claim.

His reply was 'because you haven't been sued before'. What sort of a reason is that?

I will take your advice and sit tight a little longer. There is still just under a fortnight to go. I am amazed by the whole affair.

I did list on the original questionnaire all the correspondence I have had since 2005, although the questionnaire did advise against sending the documentation at that stage.

Perhaps Carter are attempting to produce documentation against this?

Are they hoping that I will send them copies of all mine with this questionnaire first, before they send me theirs?

How ridiculous. It would just serve to prove my point.

A reminder: re email carter sent 31/12/2009:

What bothered me about that email (here page 4) was that they wanted me to discontinue first.

They did promise I would not be pursued for payment by Phoenix or anyone connected to them. It was not a promise not to sell it on.

If it could have been interpreted as such, would the court have contacted me and said so or are they not allowed to do that?

[DonkeyB]

Your requirements are clear. Carter can only approach the court regarding a settlement with your agreement.

[emtdickson]

Thank you.

In 2006 the CAB gave me some encouragement, having looked at the correspondence then and remarked on the lack of that coming from GUS.

Had they not accepted my order for a replacement TV which they sent, thereby enabling me to deduct the cost of the returned one from the outstanding balance I would have taken them to court myself.

As it was, I sent them a letter and cheque for the balance in final settlement.

The fact that they accepted it and paid it into their bank is, to my mind a settlement.

Had they returned the cheque and said ''not on your nelly'' then I would have had this problem then and not now.

Am I right?

In my case see site correspondence I too have been unable to get anything from BC.

I am counterclaiming.

He has promised all sorts if I first withdraw my counterclaim, except promising not to sell the disputed debt on.

I sent copies of his letters and my reply to the court as per the first Order deadline of 4/1/10.

I received another Order from the court which was a stay until 30/1.

I have emailed them yet they have not replied.

I am not giving up on this because I do not owe anything.

I have paperwork to support this.

This is my first experience of such things and I have received excellent help from this forum site.

If you have even the slightest bit of correspondence which will help your case then you should use it and not give up. Someone probably bought your huge debt for a very small amount.

Perhaps the sum was attractive and they bought the debt for a fraction of that amount.

Please can someone give me some more advice?

I have received no answer from either BC or their client Phoenix to my emailed letter and there are now just four days for the Stay to run.

I feel so inadequate.

The first of this standard order is for the claimant to notify the court that the whole of the claim has been settled.

I have no idea at present as I have not received anything from them.

At what stage then should I send anything to the court and what should I send?

A request for an extension of the stay period?

At least that will be accepted for a further month and I will not have to go through all this month after month.

I do not want it to go into March because the 3rd will be the first anniversary of my husband's death and I really don't think I will be up to it.

The third alternative is that we both file a completed allocation questionnaire at the court

. Should I do this before the 30th Jan? I first have to apply for the form and it is too late to return it.

I have received no word from BC so I sent a letter to the court with a copy to him to reach by 30th January.

I have heard nothing at all.

I hope someone will agree with me that no news is good news.

[DonkeyB]

Spot on EMT. Sorry for lack of comment - you're doing everything right so far. Well done for copying in the court.

 

Carter is not being very clever with your case.

[palomino]

Mr Carter, being a solicitor, is congenitally unable to admit that he has made a mistake. Hence the lack of any response.

 

It also likely that Phoenix is not responding to him so he is caught in the middle like a rabbit on the highway. Tee hee.

[emtdickson]

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement.

It is difficult for me to understand it all, though I suppose they do not know that I had so many records surrounding this subject.

I have a small mortgage and 2 yrs on the windows to go and the payments have never been late. Everything is paid by DD and until I sort out finances on one income instead of two it is sometimes overdrawn but never by more than my limit.

I have no debts. I just have the house now and am hoping to sell it and move ASAP to the village where I laid George to rest, in another county.

I have to resolve this as selling the house will be a nightmare with this hanging over me.

Because we were always so interested in gradual changes and costs, we kept all our financial records and utilities, etc and they make very interesting reading, but have also stood us in good stead.

For instance, when I received a gas bill a few years ago which showed us £800 + in credit and eventually received over £600 refunded, we looked through all the previous years and found that they had consistently taken more by DD regardless of how much they had.

Each year it was over, and we had received refunds. By showing six years of gas bills we were able to list each payment and each bill.

It was horrifying really, because it meant that we were loaning them free money over a long period of time. Had we not kept tight records we would not have realised the extent of it all. It was not the only case either and I do urge everyone to keep their records longer than 5 years.

I know this is not the place to cause a diversion, but something happened at Christmas which may be very important to you all, even though it has been settled, I hope, amicably. Because of the above account I cancelled the gas DD. I kept the electric and service accounts.

In Dec 2009 I received a bill which had to be paid by 23rd. I remembered the date but lost the bill, which was for, say, £95. I rang the automatic paying number thinking that this would tell me how much it was exactly.

What I did not realise at the time was that I had picked up an electric bill and the account number was different. It told me I owed £70+ so that is what I paid.

In January I received a telephone call telling me I had not paid and owed £21+ (some pennies) and asked me to GIVE MY BANK DETAILS AND PAY THEM NOW, indicating strong arm tactics.

WELL I DO NOT GIVE ANY INFO TO ANYONE WHOEVER THEY SAY THEY ARE, so I got onto the gas immediately and asked them if it was them AND THEY SAID IT WAS, AND THAT IT WAS TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO PAY UP SO THAT THEY WILL NOT GET INTO DEBT. I was furious. I told him that I had paid the bill, so how could I have owed them such an odd amount?

I asked then if I had made a mistake and paid the electric, but he said no because that was in credit. I paid the piddling little amount and then sent them an email. Eventually they admitted that I had phoned the electric account and they had given me a figure which was in credit.

Apparently the accounts department had spotted this and transferred the £70+ from the electric to the gas and it was £21+ short so they implemented their new system and demanded the money on the telephone. I sent another email telling them what I thought again and they did ring me.

I have to admit that with all their emails etc, they do actually read them. It was cleared up, BUT I AM CONCERNED THAT THEY SHOULD THINK IT RIGHT TO RING PENSIONERS, OR ANYONE, TO DEMAND THEIR BANK DETAILS, INCLUDING THE SECURITY NUMBER, ON THE TELEPHONE.

It did not even strike them as funny that the amount was so odd. I had made saving fuel a priority and since George died I used less gas and wore more clothes. In the summer I turned it off completely and had a bill for less than £3. I told them that I was not cutting down because of lack of money but because there was only me now, and the gas had been on continuously when we were two.

It had occurred to me that because I had cut down they were concerned I could not pay? THAT IS NO EXCUSE EITHER. They want another DD but I refused. I said I would ring them each bill and would not use the automata either.

 had no post today. In fact I have had no word from BC for a month. Perhaps the Judge has told them to get their finger out.

This evening a telephone call from BC employee. Makes me sort of squirm a bit. Sounding desperate to talk to resolve the matter and said that the Courts look kindly on those going for mediation, implying that I was against it.

I thought that was what I was doing in my replies to the orders.

What puzzles me is that she told me that their client is included in 'them' so to speak, but I do not think so, and suggested that their offer to me meant that they were doing a deal with me behind their client's back and that if I withdraw it does not stop Phoenix appointing other solicitors.

Surely unless they say so, their offer cannot possibly include Phoenix as well. She said that as they were acting for Phoenix anything they decided on their own covered their client as well.

I did say, rightly or wrongly, that if I made a claim and appointed a solicitor to act I would expect to be consulted before they went behind my back. I am still doubtful. She will ring me tomorrow - afternoon as I don't like morning calls.

I am further puzzled by their reluctance to respond to me in writing. I said that being disabled the DDA says they must make special effort to respond as telephone conversations are not easy for me to record and what was wrong with email correspondence. She seemed not to know about the DDA.

I do. The Disability Rights Commission took up a case for me when I could not get my wheelchair into a building which had a ramp alongside the door without enough turning space at the top to pass through it.

I wonder what they received in the post? Perhaps mine will come tomorrow.

[kiptower]

tem them "EVERYTHING IN WRITING" and to stop phoning , and you will make your request of this known to the court etc

[DonkeyB]

Spot on kiptower. Everything in writing, AS PREVIOUSLY REQUESTED.

 

If Carter says that a letter from them is as good as one from Phoenix, then why can't he refer to Phoenix in a letter that says there will be no further action and the alleged account will not be sold on? What's his problem?

 

Excuse the rhetoric - had enough of people like that today!

[emtdickson]

Dear DonkeyB and Kiptower

 

My sentiments entirely. I have to admit though, that until you pointed out to me that they WERE NOT AGREEING WITH MY TERMS I thought they were!

 

All the pretence of trying to make it easier for me - uggh! '' I just want to settle this over the telephone so that it can be over for you''.

 

I am beginning to hope i win on the counterclaim. Two and a half % will be winging it's way to you, and a bit more to Haiti

[DonkeyB]

Email this:

 

Dear Knobheads

 

Your representative Mr Xxxxx Xxxxx called me at XX.Xxpm today, 9 February.

 

I very much doubt the sincerity of your 'kind offer' and magnaminity in proposing to settle the issues by telephone, so that "it can be over" for me. Please respect my request for all correpondence to be in writing, and remove my telephone details permanently from your records. Your false concern for my welfare is humbug: after all, it is you who initiated this action. You are not doing me any favour.

 

As previously stated - numerous times - I look forward to receiving you letter confirming that the alleged debt is non-existent and unproven, that I will receive no further contact from Bryan Carter and Co nor Phoenix Recoveries (UK) Ltd Sarl, and that Phoenix will not sell the alleged account to any other party.

 

Failing this, I shall report your lack of meaningful response to my perfectly reasonable proposals to the court, and will have no alternative but to continue with my defence and counterclaim.

 

Please be aware that any further telephone calls from you will result in complaints to the Solicitors Regulation Authority and the Office of Fair Trading.

 

Yours etc

[emtdickson]

Are you serious I certainly will if acceptable, though I don't think 'knobheads' is quite the thing it is not far removed from what said clamly on the telephone today!

 

On the question of telephone calls do you suppose it is coincidence that I am phoned several times a week by those automatic recordiings advising me on what to do about debt? I don't have any that I know of and I let them rant on and press '9' at the end. There is another message which does not give the opportunity to press a button so I just leave it off the hook for a while.

[DonkeyB]

Sorry EMT, the "knobheads" bit should of course be edited out, but written in invisible ink across the whole letter

 

But apart from that, let them know you are fed up and mean business.

[emtdickson]

Ah well - the thought was nice while it lasted!

 

I use Ebay auctions. Is there a survey on them? I have not sold but am thinking I might sell the trench map I have. It is so hard to part with it.

[emtdickson]

Dear DonkeyB

 

Before I could send your letter to BC I fell asleep and woke late in the morning so that I did not send it before Josie Tait (BC) rang again. She said that the email sent to me on 29/12/2009 embraced all my terms and I explained that the email I sent them and copied to the court before the 4/1/10 order date was still awaiting a reply from them.

 

She denied this. I have sent your letter to them and hope to receive a reply soon - in writing.

 

I am still awaiting the Judge's decision. I have a feeling that perhaps they have received something that I am still waiting for. Perhaps they missed the deadline date?

[DonkeyB]

EMT, I don't think we've seen the email from BC of 29 December.

 

Can you post its contents so we can prepare a suitable response, or adapt the one already done?

 

Clearly the court hasn't thought it a suitable response - either that, or they didn't tell the court because they knew it was insufficient. If it had met your requirements, ie. unconditional acknowledgment of no debt, no CRA reporting and no selling on, then that would have been the end of the matter.

 

Get Carter - yup! By the short and curlies.

[emtdickson]

Dear DonkeyB

 

I am so sorry. The email referred to was sent on 31st December. That is the only one I have had and of course the Court Order was for 4th January.

 

I have hogged your time so much it is back a few pages. What they said was:

 

We confirm that once the matter is discontinued you will not be pursued further by Phoenix Recoveries or anybody else acting on their behalf. We will reimburse you the cost of your counterclaim fee if you provide us with proof of payment''

 

As you pointed out when I felt jubilant: they did not agree to my terms.

 

I am very sorry for the mistake in the date.

[DonkeyB]

Exactly. That does NOT say that Phoenix will not sell on the alleged account, or acknowledge that the debt is non-existent. Also, there's no mention of credit reference agencies.

 

And you want it in a letter. I'll have a look at producing a letter that spells it out for them - so all they have to do is cut and paste, and send it to you.

 

Might even put something in about unnecessary stress etc and requesting recompense.

 

Hang fire...

[emtdickson]

Thank you so much for your help. I feel like a mouse with a cat on the loose!

Yesterday I won £10 on the lotto and am sending it to you.

I have heard nothing from the court so far since 30th January. On 15th I received the following letter by email from MK of BC in reply to my letter as per your site.: I am starting with the first paragraph because it is very long:

Dear Mrs .........

I confirn that we have removed your telephone number from our system.

I confirm that the ''Without Prejudice' offer made to you was made on behalf of the Claimant and with the Claimant's full knowledge and consent.

(Now unless a letter has been lost, that last email they sent had nothing of the sort).

Once a Consent Order has been signed it will be enforceable against both parties to the proceedings, so you could sue our client if it did not adhere to the terms of the agreement.

This means that if our client does not adhere to the terms of the consent order you may apply to the Court to force them to comply, this makes your position stronger than if you just received a letter confirming that no further action will be taken on the account.

Bryan Carter & Co Solicitors act the the Claimant but it is the Claimant who is making the offer and who will be a party to it.

We trust that this clarifies the issue as to who is making the offer to you.

We recommend you seek independent legal advice regarding this matter.

(me: When the first letter asking me to withdraw was received I contacted BC and spoke to someone who said the opposite: that BC could not promise on behalf of their client

. The young man said the same when the second arrived. I have never received any letter, unless this is it, with 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE' on it and I know full well what that means)

BC & Co do not intend to cause you any distress, but wish to resolve the issues you have raised.

(may as well continue):

If you wish to dispose of this matter we urge you to agree the 'Without Prejudice' offer that has been made to you in good faith, without further delay.

Upon your signing and returning the Consent Order we well advise our clients to notify the credit reference agencies accordingly and a letter from Credit Account Management, who manage the account for the Claimant will be sent to you to confirm that the debt is no longer being pursued and will not me sold. This cannot be done before the Consent Order is returned to us.

Our Claimant's position is that it has done everything it can to give you the guarantees that you seek without prejudicing its position and that there should no longer be any obstacles to you signing the consent order.

Until this matter has been settled we must continue to correspond.

Yours sincerely etc

I have received no Consent Order as yet to sign.

[DonkeyB]

Gimme a while emt, will draft a response for the muppets. A consent order is unnecessary and they are still being vague.