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Hi, i would be really gratelful if you could take the time to help me out.

Yesterday i was stopped a train inspector due to the following reason:

I foolishly decided not to buy and ticket as by the time i had reached my station i realised i had no money with me and it was a 15 minute walk back to my house. I was caught by an inspector as i was trying to go through the barriers on someones elses ticket at X station and then he found a child ticket on me from X station to Y station from a previous date when i had told him my journey starts at Z station, i said i was travelling to Y station on that day but he didnt believe me.

 

He wrote down everything i said then proceeded to caution me, read me my rights and said i would recieve a magistrate summons where i could plead guilty or not guilty.

Am i going to recieve a criminal conviction? i just turned 18 and have been travelling the same route for 7 years without recieving a penalty fare notice for an invalid ticket or not producing one or any other run ins with the law. This was a mistake i made which i regret and wont happen again, im really worried about my future prospects. I intend on hiring a lawyer. Any advice would be really appreciated. Thanks.

Edited by dylerturden
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As an 18 year-old you are likely to be charged with intent to avoid a fare contrary to Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889)

 

The attempt to use someone else's ticket is clearly an offence for which you may be charged

 

As far as the matter of a 'child rate' ticket is concerned, was this a journey that you admitted making and in so doing avoiding a fare?

 

(Child rate tickets are only valid for the use of persons aged 5 - 15 years inclusive.)

 

You will be likely to receive a letter from the rail company giving you an opportunity to give your explanation of your actions

 

When you do, you should respond truthfully and ask the rail company to consider allowing you an opportunity to make ammends by settling the matter without need of a Summons to Court.

 

it is best you wait to see whether they write to you.

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thank you so much for your reply. I will do my best to persuade them. I can only hope this matter can be resolved without a conviction, which could compromise a place at university for me.

Edited by dylerturden
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thank you so much for your reply. I will do my best to persuade them. I have been gripped by anxiety ever since the incident and can only hope this matter can be resolved without a conviction, which would compromise a place at university for me.

 

Would it?.... or is this something you're assuming. We're all entitled to make mistakes in life.

 

As advised, you should wait until they contact you. Years ago, they used to allow an opportunity to settle out of court. It happened to me many years ago, which is why I know.

 

:)

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well i wish to study accounting and finance at university, and i realise that a conviction for something that amounts to fraud would give me little hope in this field or admission to a good university, I'm hoping to study at LSE. Thank you for your reply, i really hope i get given that chance.

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Not necessarily....

 

I worked in Finance for a number of years both before and after my incident.... and although this was a long time ago; before background checks were as commonplace as they are now, it never seemed to have an effect on anything.

 

If you were to repeat the offence however, then I dare say it might.

 

Wait and see what they send you and let us know if you need any more help.

 

:)

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As an 18 year-old you are likely to be charged with intent to avoid a fare contrary to Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889)

 

The attempt to use someone else's ticket is clearly an offence for which you may be charged

 

As far as the matter of a 'child rate' ticket is concerned, was this a journey that you admitted making and in so doing avoiding a fare?

 

(Child rate tickets are only valid for the use of persons aged 5 - 15 years inclusive.)

 

You will be likely to receive a letter from the rail company giving you an opportunity to give your explanation of your actions

 

When you do, you should respond truthfully and ask the rail company to consider allowing you an opportunity to make ammends by settling the matter without need of a Summons to Court.

 

it is best you wait to see whether they write to you.

 

Also what i meant by using someone elses ticket is doubling up behind someone else on the barriers. I panicked and didn't know what else to do when i saw a bunch of inspectors standing at the gate.

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Yes, I understood that, in the 'trade' it's known as a 'double-shuffle' and is very common practice and makes proving the offence pretty easy.

 

Does this mean it is likely even if i send a letter back giving reasons and explaining my regret/mistake i will still be taken to court?

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Yes, I understood that, in the 'trade' it's known as a 'double-shuffle' and is very common practice and makes proving the offence pretty easy.

Or the 'Tailgate'...:smile:

 

Dylerturden, you said the Inspector found a Child Ticket on you from a previous journey, did he also question you about that? I'm assming you weren't under 16-years of age when making said prior journey?

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No, im 18 and yes he did question me about that, i think he asked if i intended to avoid the fare and i stupidly said yes.

Stupid in your eyes, but probably the best thing to say, because lets face it, you tailgated through the ticket barriers, which speaks for itself in most cases. Same goes for your travelling on a Child Rate Ticket, although maybe slightly harder to prove if you pleaded ignorant to that one. If you had told the inspector it was not your intention to avoid payment, his next question would have probably been something like "So how did you intend to pay the fare, bearing in mind you had no money and made no effort to approach a member of staff"

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  • 1 month later...

Its been over a month since the incident and i have received nothing from them yet. Is it possible they have forgotten or intend not to do anything about it?

Also, I was talking to my aunt and she said she was caught using my mothers oyster card on the tube and admitted she intended to at the spot. She pleaded guilty in court but received no criminal conviction and could continue to practice as a doctor. Would this mean i wouldn't either, or is her case less serious than mine?

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Its been over a month since the incident and i have received nothing from them yet. Is it possible they have forgotten or intend not to do anything about it?

Also, I was talking to my aunt and she said she was caught using my mothers oyster card on the tube and admitted she intended to at the spot. She pleaded guilty in court but received no criminal conviction and could continue to practice as a doctor. Would this mean i wouldn't either, or is her case less serious than mine?

It could take some time to receive a letter Im afraid

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Hi Same thing happend to me. lost some cash on the way from bolton to manchester in oct so i desided at manchester to buy a ticket from salford cres as i just had enough cash on me, yeah i could of used my card but i was a bit short as i recently lost my job. fool i am! so he took me details cautioned me and he then buggered off to deal with somthing else so i wasnt aware they woul write to me or anything.. well today i just got a letter asking for full explaination.... what is your best thoughts? write to them with an offer or open offer to settle? & how much is it likely though the courts?

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It's impossible to give a definitive answer to 'how much is it likely to be through the Courts?', because it depends on what you are charged with if it gets that far. Having said that, the following assessments are based on very recent penalties imposed by Magistrates Courts across England where the defendant had no previous convictions and was facing a Court for the first time.

 

Firstly, let's assume the worst and assume that you get Summonsed to Court to answer a charge of 'intent to avoid a fare' contrary to Section 5 of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889).

 

If you do not enter a plea and are convicted you would face a fine, plus compensation of the fare and you may be ordered to pay the full prosecution costs. You would also have to pay a compulsory victim surcharge.

 

This offence can carry a maximum penalty of a term of imprisonment and a maximum fine of up to £1000, but in practice, for a first offence that will be reduced to the 'entry level' on the Magistrates sentencing guidelines and the average will work out roughly as follows:

 

Fine £350.00

Costs £100.00 (the prosecutor's application is usually around this figure)

Fare £ whatever amount was avoided

Victim Surcharge £15.00

 

So a total penalty of around £465.00 plus the unpaid fare

 

If you plead guilty, the fine may be reduced by around a third and any award of costs may also be reduced.

 

In the second scenario, if you are charged with the strict liability offence of 'fail to show a valid rail ticket on demand' contrary to National Railway Byelaw 18.1 (confirmed by Section 219 of The Transport Act), this is deemed less serious than 'intending not to pay', but is much more difficult to persuade a Court that you are not guilty because you were there and did not show the requisite ticket.

 

You not having the funds to pay the correct fare is not a reasonable argument. If you haven't got a ticket or the acceptable means to pay the fare due, you have no right to get on a train.

 

It is 'strict liability'. It says you must show a valid ticket. If you do not then you will have to have a very good reason such as you can prove you were given permission to board the train without a ticket by an authorised person or, there was no facility to buy one before you boarded etc.

 

Conviction in this case can lead to a fine of up to £1000, but for a first offence where intent is not the issue, the Magistrates guideline as to entry level for the fine is lower.

 

It would probably work out roughly as follows:

 

Fine £175.00

Costs award £100

Fare £

Victim Surcharge £15.00

 

making a potential total penalty of around £290.00 plus the unpaid fare. Again, this would be reduced if a 'guilty' plea is entered at the earliest opportunity, but remember, you should never plead guilty if you genuinely believe that you have done nothing wrong.

 

For anyone in your position, you could write, apologising for your 'foolish and out of character behaviour' and ask for an opportunity to settle the matter without need of troubling the Courts.

 

Offer to pay the unpaid fare and all of the reasonable costs incurred by the rail company and hope that they take a sympathetic view.

 

Good luck

Edited by Old-CodJA
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not sure how the court works how much of the above would they get in compensation out of the two?

 

Not sure what you mean by this question, but in answer to who gets what in any conviction it is as follows:

 

The Court gets all of the fine and all of the victim surcharge

 

The rail company gets all of the fare compensation and all of any costs award so the biggest share generally goes to the Court.

 

In simple terms if you are convicted and fined £100, ordered to pay £50.00 costs and the compensating fare of £10 plus the compulsory victim surcharge of £15.00 ( imposed on anyone fined by the Magistrates ), the Court will get £115 and the rail company £60

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yeah thats what i ment lol. so in fareness they get a max of £150.00* say... im going to give my reason of what happend but not plead guilty of the offence but offer an out of court settlement either way.

 

You need to remember that you may offer an 'out of court settlement', but the rail company are not obliged to accept it.

 

Make sure that when you give your reasoning and make an offer, you must stick to the provable facts.

 

Far too often I and my colleagues have seen grossly exaggerated claims about why a traveller 'couldn't get a ticket' and the 'obstructive, threatening, rude and abusive rail staff' when such letters come in.

 

On rare occasions the allegations are true and when that is the case this will almost always result in no action at all being taken.

 

In many more cases though, such letters can be counter productive because the exaggerated claims may well lead to a less than sympathetic view being taken.

 

Good luck

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It's impossible to give a definitive answer to 'how much is it likely to be through the Courts?', because it depends on what you are charged with if it gets that far. Having said that, the following assessments are based on very recent penalties imposed by Magistrates Courts across England where the defendant had no previous convictions and was facing a Court for the first time.

 

Firstly, let's assume the worst and assume that you get Summonsed to Court to answer a charge of 'intent to avoid a fare' contrary to Section 5 of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889).

 

If you do not enter a plea and are convicted you would face a fine, plus compensation of the fare and you may be ordered to pay the full prosecution costs. You would also have to pay a compulsory victim surcharge.

 

This offence can carry a maximum penalty of a term of imprisonment and a maximum fine of up to £1000, but in practice, for a first offence that will be reduced to the 'entry level' on the Magistrates sentencing guidelines and the average will work out roughly as follows:

 

Fine £350.00

Costs £100.00 (the prosecutor's application is usually around this figure)

Fare £ whatever amount was avoided

Victim Surcharge £15.00

 

So a total penalty of around £465.00 plus the unpaid fare

 

If you plead guilty, the fine may be reduced by around a third and any award of costs may also be reduced.

 

In the second scenario, if you are charged with the strict liability offence of 'fail to show a valid rail ticket on demand' contrary to National Railway Byelaw 18.1 (confirmed by Section 219 of The Transport Act), this is deemed less serious than 'intending not to pay', but is much more difficult to persuade a Court that you are not guilty because you were there and did not show the requisite ticket.

 

You not having the funds to pay the correct fare is not a reasonable argument. If you haven't got a ticket or the acceptable means to pay the fare due, you have no right to get on a train.

 

It is 'strict liability'. It says you must show a valid ticket. If you do not then you will have to have a very good reason such as you can prove you were given permission to board the train without a ticket by an authorised person or, there was no facility to buy one before you boarded etc.

 

Conviction in this case can lead to a fine of up to £1000, but for a first offence where intent is not the issue, the Magistrates guideline as to entry level for the fine is lower.

 

It would probably work out roughly as follows:

 

Fine £175.00

Costs award £100

Fare £

Victim Surcharge £15.00

 

making a potential total penalty of around £290.00 plus the unpaid fare. Again, this would be reduced if a 'guilty' plea is entered at the earliest opportunity, but remember, you should never plead guilty if you genuinely believe that you have done nothing wrong.

 

For anyone in your position, you could write, apologising for your 'foolish and out of character behaviour' and ask for an opportunity to settle the matter without need of troubling the Courts.

 

Offer to pay the unpaid fare and all of the reasonable costs incurred by the rail company and hope that they take a sympathetic view.

 

Good luck

 

 

 

Hi,

i wanted to ask, how can they prrove the intention to evade paying full fare beyond reasonable doubt?

 

i am in a similar situation and my case is as follow:

( i suffer from Narcolepsy so the mornings for me are rather difficult and it is hard to change my routine at the drop of a hat)

 

the morning of the offence i had to take public transport as my husband wasn't there to drive me to work (which he does most of the time)

i check my purse, saw i had £2 which is enough for a return journey. got on the train with the intention to buy A FULL PRICE TICKET which is £2.

 

When i opened my purse to get the money out i realised i had £1 and Euro's which i took for sterling money, i looked for my cards, i left one at work and one at home as i used it to pay for my university fees (i have the statement to show the transactions), there was a line building up at the barrier and made a decision to buy a cheaper ticket so that i wouldn't be late for work ( i had already gotten 2 warnings, funily enough both times were because the train was late, and since i didn't know what the protocol was for not having enough funds and owning up to the staff member i didn't want to risk it).

 

to sum it up my intention was to pay all i had (£1) THEN the next time i travelled and required a single, i would buy a return to make up for the difference so that Northern rail wouldnt be out of pocket.

 

got cought, explained the situation, ticket inspector told me i'd hear from them within 6 weeks. Kept all my tickets for 3 monthes, then bined them in September two monthes later (over 5 monthes after the offence) i received a court summons (wednesday night) for the following Monday. leaving me no time to prepare.

 

they want me to plead quilty to traveling with an invalid ticket and intention to evade payment of fare thereof. that is NOT the case and i clearly said so on my statement. whatever decision i made was so save my job ( i was being harassed by my supervisor and i even have the emails to proove it!) i intended to pay the difference later on. which brings me back to my question, they didn't ask me if i had the intention to pay up the difference nor demanded the difference on the spot. so how can they prove my that my intention was to evade? it is stressing me out to no end, this is out of character for me.

 

The difference of the fare was 30p by the way. And the way i was going to make it up would have meant that the train company was going to be in pocket by an extra 30 p!

 

I can't help but feel that because this was done during a sting operation, whatever they were doing was not to prevent the income loss from these 10 and 20 p fare evasions, it simply for the inspector to get their commission and having US live through the trauma of going to court (speaking for myself) AND rissking having a criminal records, as well as crowding the courts!

 

can someone advise me pls? pls? my hearing is in a week.

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OK, lets look at this case using your own description of what happened and please remember, this is meant to be constructive and helpful.

 

1. You got to the station and found that you did not have enough money or other acceptable means to pay the fare for your intended journey there and then.

 

I am sorry if it seems harsh and of course none of us write the law, but in this situation you have no right to board any train to make that journey.

 

2. You decided to buy a ticket for a lesser fare than that due for the journey you intended to make.

 

You got caught. The law is very clear in this respect. If a traveller pays a fare for a certain distance and travels beyond that distance without paying the additional fare due and with intent to avoid payment thereof, an offence is committed.

 

The matter of intention is in relation to the journey being made there and then and the full fare is due at the time of travel.

 

Where pre-purchase facilities were not available that means at the very latest, at the time the traveller reaches their destination station, but if ticket facilities were available at the start of the journey, the obligation is to pay the full fare due before travelling.

 

3. You say that you received a Summons on Wednesday only two working days before the hearing date and yet you go on to say that your hearing is in a week's time.

 

Have you already entered a plea and had the case adjourned or, was it adjourned for administrative purposes because the Magistrates accepted that the service was late and that you had insufficient time to prepare a defence??

 

4. You say that you have been charged with intent to avoid a fare and it seems to me that the correct charge has been laid in this case. The fare that must be paid is that which is due for the intended journey.

 

You may say that your intention was to pay at a later date, but the correct fare is due on demand at the time of travel and you do not have any authority to vary that.

 

I do not see your explanation succeeding in this case.

 

You knew that on day 1 you were intending to travel from A to C and you knew the fare was due for a journey from A to C, but according to your explanation, you knowingly paid from A to B intending to travel to C.

 

You therefore made the decision to travel between B & C without having paid the fare and without means to pay between those two points. Therefore the fare for the journey from B to C is knowingly avoided on day 1 at the time when it was due.

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OK, lets look at this case using your own description of what happened and please remember, this is meant to be constructive and helpful.

 

1. You got to the station and found that you did not have enough money or other acceptable means to pay the fare for your intended journey there and then.

 

I am sorry if it seems harsh and of course none of us write the law, but in this situation you have no right to board any train to make that journey.

 

2. You decided to buy a ticket for a lesser fare than that due for the journey you intended to make.

 

You got caught. The law is very clear in this respect. If a traveller pays a fare for a certain distance and travels beyond that distance without paying the additional fare due and with intent to avoid payment thereof, an offence is committed.

 

The matter of intention is in relation to the journey being made there and then and the full fare is due at the time of travel.

 

Where pre-purchase facilities were not available that means at the very latest, at the time the traveller reaches their destination station, but if ticket facilities were available at the start of the journey, the obligation is to pay the full fare due before travelling.

 

3. You say that you received a Summons on Wednesday only two working days before the hearing date and yet you go on to say that your hearing is in a week's time.

 

Have you already entered a plea and had the case adjourned or, was it adjourned for administrative purposes because the Magistrates accepted that the service was late and that you had insufficient time to prepare a defence??

 

4. You say that you have been charged with intent to avoid a fare and it seems to me that the correct charge has been laid in this case. The fare that must be paid is that which is due for the intended journey.

 

You may say that your intention was to pay at a later date, but the correct fare is due on demand at the time of travel and you do not have any authority to vary that.

 

I do not see your explanation succeeding in this case.

 

You knew that on day 1 you were intending to travel from A to C and you knew the fare was due for a journey from A to C, but according to your explanation, you knowingly paid from A to B intending to travel to C.

 

You therefore made the decision to travel between B & C without having paid the fare and without means to pay between those two points. Therefore the fare for the journey from B to C is knowingly avoided on day 1 at the time when it was due.

 

 

hi, thanks for your reply.

yes i got an adjournent.

 

I understand what you say completely, but you see i don’t think that "intention to avoid payment thereof" is fully correct in my case. It was not my intention, if they are trying to give me a guilty plea in order to obtain a fine, then two things come to mind.

 

1- why court? i am a first time offender, why not issue me with an invoice instead?

 

2-How can they prove it beyond reasonable doubt?

 

like you said the intentions taken into consideration are the ones that apply to the journey in question. Well, i never had the intention to dodge the 30p as i strongly believed i had the full fare, i checked my purse, before travelling, if anything, these actions show that my intention was to pay full fare, unfortunately i realised on the train that the second coin was not a sterling pound therefore it wasn't legal tender.

 

Considering these points what would you have done? what is the protocol in this case? what is the preferred course of action for a passenger who realised once boarding the train that they had insufficient funds?

 

I am not that tight fisted and greedy to risk everything i have going for me for the sake of 30p nor foolish to do it at a time i know (being a regular traveller) that ticket checks are in operation. Whatever decisions i made were to remain in employment whilst reducing abuse i was enduring.

 

Yes we are supposed to buy a ticket before boarding, but no one does it every time they travel, the same way we're supposed to brush out teeth 3 times a day and some only do it once if at all, or even buy a fresh carton of milk before the one at hoe runs out. Funnily enough the trains too are supposed to come on time and provide an efficient service but guess what, they never do. So would you say this is sufficient grounds to take the train company to court for loss of earnings every time we are late? i doubt it.

 

Unless they had offered me a chance to pay the difference considering that i am a regular passenger who ALWAYS pays full fare, and i refused to make amend, there is no way they can accuse me of having intent to evade.

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