Equita Bailiffs

[christinag]

Hi all,

 

I am hoping you may be able to give me some advice on how to proceed; but first I shall give you some background. I moved out of a property on June 16th 2008. The council then continued to sending me council tax bills for the property until July this year, I repeatedly phoned them to explain I had not lived at the property for over a year and in the end they must have actually checked their details and council tax records for my new property as they stopped sending bills and I presumed all was well.

 

Until earlier this week, when I received a letter from a company called Equita informing me they would be sending bailiffs around to collect unpaid debt for Exeter City Council. I was intending to simply phone the council again and ask what this was all about but my fiancee demanded I phone Equita instead. Which I did, I phoned, asked which period the so called debt covered and it turned out not to be until July this year, however, it was for a period after I moved out (June 2008 till November 2008) -- I explained I hadn't lived at the property during that time and they asked I contact the council. I presumed that would be the end of it with Equita.

 

I phoned the council the next morning, they asked me to write to them, which I am in the process of doing.

 

However, today a bailiff showed up at the door (at some ungodly time prior to me getting up) and put a hand delivered notice through the door informing me that they would call around in the next 24 hours to remove property, regardless of whether we were present or not.

 

Somewhat confused as I would have thought after our telephone correspondance that they would now wait for the council to sort their act out.

 

Normally, I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a doorstep arguement, but at 30 weeks pregnant with a pregnancy which has left me feeling rather poorly (I won't go into much detail; but my body isn't agreeing with this child bearing lark and I have been off sick since early on in the pregnancy, suffering bad SPD and have suspected prolapsed discs in my lower back -- I am hobbling through the last couple of months with the aid of Fentanyl patches for pain [poor baby!] and crutches when I need to get about. In addition I have a stinking cold which is making me moody at present!) and with the stress this pregnancy has caused for my body (and mind) I am not entirely certain I'd be able to cope too well.

 

Obviously, Exeter City Council won't get my letter by tomorrow, and with it being Sunday I doubt that they would even do much (I can't see them responding over the holidays either, considering the time of year?) in the event they did.. I presume seeing how the letter this morning was handdelivered (partially handwritten too, no postmark etc, and way before the post arrives anyhow) that they will actually turn up again within 24 hours as their letter stated.

 

Soo.. advice, please?

[Nintendo Pü]

The law requires the council to send you a "final Notice" at your current address or your last known address before instructing a bailiff. If the council fails to comply with the law you can ask the council to take the case back into town hall administration and no bailiffs fees are lawfully due.

 

Regulation 33(1) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

 

33.—(1) Subject to paragraph (3), before a billing authority applies for a liability order it shall serve on the person against whom the application is to be made a notice ("final notice"), which is to be in addition to any notice required to be served under Part V, and which is to state every amount in respect of which the authority is to make the application.

 

 

Regulation 34 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

 

(2) The application is to be instituted by making complaint to a justice of the peace, and requesting the issue of a summons directed to that person to appear before the court to show why he has not paid the sum which is outstanding.

 

 

The law - Section 7 of the Interpretation Act says

 

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then,unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

 

 

When the bailiff discovered you had a new address, he should have followed the proper course of action, and informed the council so it can follow regulations and send you a Final Notice at your current address. The law requires that you are given an opportunity to pay the debt before commencement of enforcement action or applying for a liability order. The bailiff failed to do this, and they are the councils responsibility. This means the council must roll the case back to council administration and remove any fees the bailiff has applied.

You need to keep the bailiff out of your home and write to the council.

Make an official written complaint and ask them to resolve the complaint by ceasing enforcement action, cancel all fees and take the case back to town hall administration within seven days. Escalate your complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman if the council fobs you off with excuses.

[christinag]

Thank you for your response -- I will write to the council and point out the above.

 

When/if the bailiff does show up again in the next 24hours as they stated, do I simply ignore them until they go away again or should I engage in any conversation? If the latter, is pointing out the above enough to make them leave me alone until the council sorts themselves out and responds?

[Nintendo Pü]

Keep them out until the council complies with regulations. This is the standard advice posted on this forum on dealing with bailiffs on the doorstep.

 

DEALING WITH BAILIFFS ON YOUR DOORSTEP

 

 

1. ALWAYS! Keep your door LOCKED SHUT at all times. NEVER open the door to a bailiff - speak to him through a window or the letterbox

2. ALWAYS! Hide your car - in the garage or park it well away

3. ALWAYS! Take photographs of the bailiff and his vehicle, even better use a camcorder and video-record EVERYTHING

4. ALWAYS! Speak as LITTLE AS POSSIBLE and let the bailiff do the talking

5. ALWAYS! Ask for his bailiff's certificate number

6. ALWAYS! Ask which court issued his certificate

7. ALWAYS! Ask for a full breakdown of his fees IN WRITING

8. ALWAYS! Ask who the creditor is (if you don't know)

9. ALWAYS! Pay using a credit card, avoid cash and debit cards if possible

10. ALWAYS! If you have grounds, get an appeal lodged immediately (parking tickets) - it stops enforcement

 

1. NEVER! Sign any documents handed to you by a bailiff

2. NEVER! Phone a bailiff (unless asking him which Court issued his certificate)

3. NEVER! Admit any debt

4. NEVER! Say or "confirm" your name address or date of birth

 

If you feel intimidated or a bailiff threatened to break in then call police on 999. Remember that door remains LOCKED SHUT until the bailiff is a safe distance from your property. You DO NOT have to open the door to police. Get everything on video, it can be used in court: Example: YouTube - Rossendales Bailiffs

[Guest Happy Contrails]

30 weeks pregnant with a pregnancy which has left me feeling rather poorly (I won't go into much detail; but my body isn't agreeing with this child bearing lark and I have been off sick since early on in the pregnancy, suffering bad SPD and have suspected prolapsed discs in my lower back -- I am hobbling through the last couple of months with the aid of Fentanyl patches for pain [poor baby!] and crutches when I need to get about. In addition I have a stinking cold which is making me moody at present!) and with the stress this pregnancy has caused for my body (and mind) I am not entirely certain I'd be able to cope too well.

 

Speak to your doctor and get a note to confirm this and send it to the council and hand a copy to bailiff through a window. You might a vulnerable person for the purposes of civil enforcement.

 

Not a legal requirement to comply with the regs, but you can make noises with the LGO

[RaeUK]

As HC points out you should be classed as vulnerable due to both your pregnancy and the problems you are having with it:

 

Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

Those who might be considered vulnerable include the following:

the elderly;

people with a disability;

the seriously ill;

the recently bereaved;

single parent families;

pregnant women;

unemployed people; and,

those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

 

 

Do let the council know you're pregnant and - as HC advises - if needs be you can supply evidence via your GP as to that and complications. [Although turning up on their doorstep should be a clincher!] IIRC ECC used to be a very good and understanding council. [but it's been a while since I lived there!] They certainly should be aware of the guidelines. This should alleviate the stress of bailiffs whilst you get the matter investigated and resolved.

Whilst the National Guidelines for Enforcement Agents are guidelines and not enshrined in law they are not without weight. They are recognised by the Ministry of Justice and the Houses of Parliament. In the unlikely event you have problems being recognised as vulnerable there are options available.

Best wishes and do keep us info'd...

Rae.

Edited December 19, 2009 by RaeUK
typo

[layer_cake]

Keep them out until the council complies with regulations. This is the standard advice posted on this forum on dealing with bailiffs on the doorstep.

 

DEALING WITH BAILIFFS ON YOUR DOORSTEP

 

 

1. ALWAYS! Keep your door LOCKED SHUT at all times. NEVER open the door to a bailiff - speak to him through a window or the letterbox

2. ALWAYS! Hide your car - in the garage or park it well away

3. ALWAYS! Take photographs of the bailiff and his vehicle, even better use a camcorder and video-record EVERYTHING

4. ALWAYS! Speak as LITTLE AS POSSIBLE and let the bailiff do the talking

5. ALWAYS! Ask for his bailiff's certificate number

6. ALWAYS! Ask which court issued his certificate

7. ALWAYS! Ask for a full breakdown of his fees IN WRITING

8. ALWAYS! Ask who the creditor is (if you don't know)

9. ALWAYS! Pay using a credit card, avoid cash and debit cards if possible

10. ALWAYS! If you have grounds, get an appeal lodged immediately (parking tickets) - it stops enforcement

 

1. NEVER! Sign any documents handed to you by a bailiff

2. NEVER! Phone a bailiff (unless asking him which Court issued his certificate)

3. NEVER! Admit any debt

4. NEVER! Say or "confirm" your name address or date of birth

 

If you feel intimidated or a bailiff threatened to break in then call police on 999. Remember that door remains LOCKED SHUT until the bailiff is a safe distance from your property. You DO NOT have to open the door to police. Get everything on video, it can be used in court: Example: YouTube - Rossendales Bailiffs

this is really helpful. it's amazing what bailiffs will say to try and scare you. they have said all this to me and it did work and had it not been for this forum, i'd have cracked up. BAILIFFS AT ALL THESE COMPANIES ARE A TOTAL DISGRACE! COMPULSIVE LIARS, AND SOME OF THEM SEEM TO BE FRAUDSTERS TOO.

[luk79]

BAILIFFS prey on the vulnerable to cash in - its the only way they can maximise their profits sadly, such a shame the whole bailiff industry is so poorly regulated..

 

Don't get me wrong, Im all for clearing your debt.. but excessive charges and intimidation ? They can rot in hell for that !

 

I just had the worst 2 weeks with Equita - if you see my thread they slapped £600 UNLAWFUL CHARGES on my debt for simply missing a payment as per arrangment, upon disputing the charges by email, I got a letter in the post saying all the charges have been dropped on the condition I reinstate my arrangment and pay the arrangment instalment I missed ! This forum was a great help, best thanks to Halowitch and tombubby - they are brilliant for advice !!

Edited December 21, 2009 by luk79

[layer_cake]

"This forum was a great help, best thanks to Halowitch and tombubby - they are brilliant for advice !!

 

I'll second that!

[Nintendo Pü]

This forum was a great help, best thanks to Halowitch and tombubby - they are brilliant for advice !!

 

I find it rather off that neither of these posters you are keen to applaud have commented on this tread.

 

We seem to have a lot of newbies and selcom users coming on here applauding tomtubby. Its beyond coincidence now, and seems explain why tomtubby takes discussions into PM for reasons otherwise less obvious.

[layer_cake]

NP, I thank you too for your excellent advice. I have thanked you on numerous occasions. There are numerous posters that have been invaluable in helping me, and I have clearly thanked them all. Thankyou once again for your excellent posts and I hope you'll keep them coming. Let the true fightback against the injustice of bailiff harassment and fraudulent behaviour continue!

[Nintendo Pü]

I dont come here for the applauds, nor look for clients and taking discussions out of the public domain and into PM. I dont need to rally a camp of supporters to applaud themselves and discreit others on demand.

[layer_cake]

I dont come here for the applauds, nor look for clients and taking discussions out of the public domain and into PM. I dont need to rally a camp of supporters to applaud themselves and discreit others on demand.

who are you addressing here, cool down eh. i'm a punter with a bailiff on my case! easy tiger. and u do deserve some thanks by the way!

[Nintendo Pü]

It wasnt really indended for you, but I have noticed a small group of users giving out unusual and misplaced applauds in favour of a certain user on this forum, and searching the forums histories, the same user is linked to them all in other threads. One user specifically only posts to discredit other posters who do not agree with his associate.

 

I also noticed somebody posting a link to a website, which I now understand is banned by the owners of this website, and is actually owned and operated by the said user. His accomplice posted its web address intentionally concealed behind a forwarding URL to circumvent the forum software detecting the posting of a banned website.

 

I am still puzzled as to the ulterior motive, but it would appear to be a tout looking for work, or punters to call the 0906 numbers. The website in question contained serious factual inaccuracies of civil enforcement law and offered impertinent advice to debtors, e.g. suggesting sending Freedom of Information Act letters to magistrates court for copies of their contracts and fees arrangements between HMCS and its enforcement contractors. The English grammar used on the website and its templates confirms the website author is not of a professional legal background and may even be getting his advice from bailiffs.

[layer_cake]

All the questions and answers we seem to need are available in this forum.

 

There is so much to know and each case has its own unique circumstances to an extent which makes this whole bailiff / fees thing a minefield that they cash in on. Cash from chaos!

 

I'll keep on asking very open questions on here so the answers are there for all to see. After all, most of us are skint! I have seen one website that charges £125 to have the matter dealt with!

[Nintendo Pü]

There are plenty of websites sprung up saying they can recover unlawful bailiffs fees, its a repeat of the bank-charge reclaims revolution.

[christinag]

I wrote to Exeter City Council after making this post; I informed them that I did not live at the property for the period Equita claimed to be seeking payment for, I also informed them that I am heavily pregnant and baby is due mid-february. I asked that they confirm receipt of my letter within 10 days of postmark, and I pointed out that until the letter and subsequent visit by bailiff I had not had any correspondence regarding arrears from the Council, Equita or any Court.

 

So far I've not heard anything back from the Council, I have however had more letters from Equita and yet another "We are coming to seize goods" letter. This letter states there's a Magistrates' Liability Order Dated 02/12/2008 -- I have never received any correspondence from any court, that said, I've not received any correspondence regarding the debt from the Council either.

 

Now, one thing which confuses me is that so far, neither of the letters (posted or hand delivered) has had any amounts on them, and I only found out the time period for which they supposedly apply after phoning Equita.

 

As the Council has failed to respond so far, should I give them more time to do so (considering the snow and what not and post being delayed?) or should I contact the Local Government Ombudsman as I stated in my letter I would do if I did not hear back from them?

 

In my letter to the council I did ask that they take the debt back, cease all enforcement action and remove any fees and contact me with an actual breakdown in the event that I do have arrears for Council Tax for the period PRIOR to my moving out (which I sincerely doubt as I received Council Tax benefit up until the month I moved out of the property).

 

Now, Equitas latest letter state they will be around again this week -- do I phone them and inform them I'm awaiting response from the Council? Or do I simply continue ignoring them until ECC responds?

 

Thanks in advance.

[jimbo45]

Hi there

For UNPAID council tax problems I would NEVER EVER speak to a Bailiff under ANY circumstances whatsoever -- even through a letterbox. DON'T WRITE EITHER.

 

Why even ACKNOWLEDGE the existence of these miserable bullying VERMIN.

 

You HAVE to pay Council tax --that's an unfortunate fact - but its the LAW.

 

The LAW doesn't require us to be bullied, lied to and extorted via ILLEGAL FEES and "Prison threats".

 

Offer to pay the council something -- send by recorded delivery.

 

The Baliff can only charge for 2 visits - irrespective of the number made -- 24.50 and 18.50.

 

If he knows he's not going to get in he won't try again -- no point as he can pursue his VILE TACTICS on other unfortunate souls. He'll send the debt back to the council.

 

The Council will HAVE to take back the debt --if it goes to Court --won't get that far -- but if it did you can show you've attempted to pay --but you are not paying UNLAWFUL charges imposed by the bailiff such as "Van Fees" etc. The court will only ask you to pay what you can actually afford if it ever went that far.

 

It's not a CRIME to get into debt or even behind with Council Tax -- it will HAVE to be paid however -- but you can apply for relief if you think you qualify.

 

Don't even phone the council either - their mouthpieces will usually say you have to deal with the Bailiff--- Ignore as this is INCORRECT.

 

If you have a car --hide it as this is often a soft option to make you pay up --and reclaiming Fees is much harder than not paying them in the first place.

 

Rule one is NEVER EVER let these vile **** into your house -- once they've got admittance then all bets are off as they can start levying etc etc.

 

A favorite trick is for them to pounce while you are taking your bins to the street --most people don't lock their doors when doing this.

 

Cheers

jimbo

[hallowitch]

Did you send the letter recored delivery

 

 

send another letter to the council to the chief executive mark it formal complaint include a copy of the first letter you sent

 

 

This letter states there's a Magistrates' Liability Order Dated 02/12/2008

 

 

 

there is every possibility that this has been sent to the address that the debt relates to

[christinag]

jimbo45: I do not mind paying the council tax IF there actually is any owed, however, Equita claims they want payment for July until November 2008 -- I moved out in June 2008, and my council tax has since been paid to a different council alltogether, I moved from Exeter, Devon to Surrey.

 

That said the amount is so far undisclosed and has not been on any of the correspondence received from Equita.

 

I sent the following letter to the Council, but I have yet to hear back from them, it's been nearly a month:

 

"I have recently received a visit from Equita Bailiffs, stating they are acting on behalf of Exeter City Council in regards to unpaid council tax for

.

 

They have visited the property and left a letter informing me they will seize goods over this coming week, however, they have NOT advised me as to the amount of the outstanding council tax, nor have Exeter City Council been in touch with me prior to these Bailiff visits, the letter left by foot states there is a Magistrates Liability order for the Council Tax, again I have had NO correspondence from any court.

 

Upon contacting Equita by telephone they informed me the period covered was from July 2008 until November 2008. I moved out of

on June 15th 2008 and to the best of my knowledge I did not have any council tax arrears.

 

In light of the Councils failure to contact me prior to passing this debt on, and the Courts inability to contact me I would ask that you take this debt back from Equita and contact me with any corrected amounts owed as per the actual date I vacated the property.

 

I would also take this opportunity to inform you that I understand that for the purposes of Civil Enforcement I am classed as vulnerable by virtue of being pregnant and your appointed bailiffs should NOT be harassing a heavily pregnant woman a few weeks away from giving birth in the manner they are doing and I would expect you to sort out your mistake, contact me with the correct details and work with me directly to settle any potential arrears.

 

I would also expect you to contact and rectify this situation with whatever magistrates court they refer to in their letter.

 

I understand that Exeter City Council is required to send me a “final Notice” to my current address before instructing a bailiff or a court, as you have neglected to do this I ask that you take the case back into town hall administration, cancel any and all fees and cease enforcement action as per

 

Regulation 33(1) and 34 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and Section 7 of the Interpretation Act.

 

I expect to hear back from you within ten (10) days of date of this letter; at which point I will escalate my complaint to the Local Government Ombudsman."

[christinag]

I was unsure WHERE to send the letter, so I sent it to the "Council Recoveries Department" -- I will follow your advise and send another along with a copy of the first to the Chief Executive and make sure this one is sent recorded delivery. Thank you!

[ploddertom]

If you are having problems getting through to the Council for any action escalate it further up the ladder, Head of Revenues or similar. Those at the bottom only have a script to follow. At the same time contact your local Councillor ASAP, even this evening before 9pm and explain your problem and circumstances. It may help to explain it would look good in the local press about you being hounded when the Council won't reply. I am also making the assumption you can prove when you moved as it sounds as if the Council will play the "you didn't tell us" card.

 

PT

[christinag]

ploddertom: Would that be my actual local councillor (I live in a different county) or one for where I lived when in Exeter?

 

I would think it's easy enough to prove, and I would also assume that they are able to look the data up their end, considering I've been paying Council Tax to a different Council since June 15th 2008 -- mind, I would also have expected Exeter CC to have had other people paying council tax for that property as I know new tenants moved in a week after I vacated the property?

 

But yes, proving when I moved is no problem, contracts, change of address with everywhere, council tax on new property etc etc

[ploddertom]

ploddertom: Would that be my actual local councillor (I live in a different county) or one for where I lived when in Exeter?

 

Hadn't realised you had moved to another Authority, think I would probably try both - always worth a try.

 

I would think it's easy enough to prove, and I would also assume that they are able to look the data up their end, considering I've been paying Council Tax to a different Council since June 15th 2008 -- mind, I would also have expected Exeter CC to have had other people paying council tax for that property as I know new tenants moved in a week after I vacated the property?

 

But yes, proving when I moved is no problem, contracts, change of address with everywhere, council tax on new property etc etc

 

PT

[fluffy_bunny]

Did you inform the council in June that you were leaving the property?