Littleme 33 v Egg can someone advise on this 'agreement' please

[littleme33]

Hello, Really love this site have been reading it for a while now,and i think its gonna be invaluable to me ( or all the brilliant people on here )

I have just applied to EGG and 5 other creditors for my CCA, i set up my own repayment plan with all my creditors which have been on going now for a year, but im getting more fed up with the balances still huge,and BRAVE now!

I owe EGG 3,500 on a credit card i took out in 2003, i payed them £7.00 a month then they asked for more then i payed £10.00 a month for another 6 months..............

Then on the way back from sending my CCA letters recorded from the post office, what should be waiting for me.....a letter from 'APEX' How strange?? (looks like EGG got brave too?,lol) i rang APEX and emailed them my budget plan and CCS ref number, APEX have said they will only accept £50,

Which i can't afford (being a single mum) anyway, i sent a copy of the letter to apex that i sent EGG but without the £1 fee,

What i want to know is if you lovely people can help me is should i have sent APEX a different letter, if so, which one?

Thanks to all in advance

Edited November 12, 2009 by littleme33

[littleme33]

Hello, Really love this site have been reading it for a while now,and i think its gonna be invaluable to me ( or all the brilliant people on here )

I have just applied to EGG and 5 other creditors for my CCA, i set up my own repayment plan with all my creditors which have been on going now for a year, but im getting more fed up with the balances still huge,and BRAVE now!

I owe EGG 3,500 on a credit card i took out in 2003, i payed them £7.00 a month then they asked for more then i payed £10.00 a month for another 6 months..............

Then on the way back from sending my CCA letters recorded from the post office, what should be waiting for me.....a letter from 'APEX' How strange?? (looks like EGG got brave too?,lol) i rang APEX and emailed them my budget plan and CCS ref number, APEX have said they will only accept £50,

Which i can't afford (being a single mum) anyway, i sent a copy of the letter to apex that i sent EGG but without the £1 fee,

What i want to know is if you lovely people can help me is should i have sent APEX a different letter, if so, which one?

Thanks to all in advance

[fairbyblue]

I'm in similar position. I am going to fight this all the way.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/231809-apex-egg-fairbyblue.html

[Crocdoc]

No your fine with that, however to enter into an agreement with APEX seems to me to be premature as the intention is to dispute the claim if the can't provide the documentation. The mere fact that you have informed them of your requests should be sufficient to shut their gobs in the interim period.

 

In the event that they do provide a properly executed agreement, any re-payment plan should be based on affordability and not the unrealistic demands of the brain dead.

 

On that note, if you find that you cannot dispute the entire claim, your next move should be to forward a Subject Access Request and dispute all charges levied over the last (6 years England, 5 years Scotland). As it is important to remember that all defaulted accounts will almost certainly contain charges. This course of action could substantially reduce the balance in the worst case scenario

[WelshMam2009]

Take a look here Little Me regarding Egg agreements...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/188093-egg-credit-agreements-what.html#post2024413

 

Apex may use this number, or similar variants to call...

 

01789 775899

Edited November 13, 2009 by WelshMam2009

[littleme33]

Hi, Thanks for that! I will wait and see what happens, one thing i just thought of Egg did not send me a default notice before i got the letter from APEX, and on the phone APEX quoted a default date of AUGUST 2008, which was the date when i approached egg with my reduced monthly offer? Was i supposed to have a default notice this time? I have never missed an arranged payment to them

 

Thank-u!

[littleme33]

Hi,

 

Can someone please take a look at what Egg have sent me in reply to my CCA request, is it enforcable?

 

They sent the docs. that i have scanned and a reem of paper headed: 'Small Print Legal information you need to be aware of.'

Which is applicable to customers who applied from 01 october 2001

Which is printed pages from the internet not signed by me

 

Also reems of the credit card agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 + key facts, (with my current address on, and not the address i had when i applied for the card)looks like current terms not related to 2003 when i applied?

 

Thank-you i appreciate every bit of help xx

 

I can scan but there's loads of it!

Edited March 12, 2010 by littleme33

[MandM]

Hi littleme,

 

You might want to take a read of this, it's huge but should tell you what you're looking for,

 

M

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/188093-egg-credit-agreements-what.html?highlight=egg+agreements

[littleme33]

Hi, So i after writing to EGG/APEX to tell them whats wrong with there Credit 'Agreement' as per the link 'egg agreement and what is wrong with them' this is the letter attached they sent back to me this friday,,,its been along time since ive heard anything from them!

Shall i write back??? If so what do you think i should reply?;

 

Many Thanks

Littlememe:rolleyes:

Image0022.PDF

[middenmess]

Hi Littleme33

 

Firstly 10/10 for the most original method I've seen so far on this site for removing personal details:D--the uses of Duck/Duct tape are endless!!

 

The letter from Apex is a bit convoluted--the last sentence appears to read as they admit under 127 it's unenforceable?

 

I think that Ms. Newbury didn't pay too much attention at school when it came to learning how to express yourself when writing letters!

[littleme33]

Hi,

No other heavy duty tape will do this job LOL!!

 

Shall i write to Ms Newbury and give her the good news??

 

[MandM]

 

The letter from Apex is a bit convoluted--the last sentence appears to read as they admit under 127 it's unenforceable?

 

I think that Ms. Newbury didn't pay too much attention at school when it came to learning how to express yourself when writing letters!

 

I think it depends how you read it. I read it as saying that they are refuting YOUR claims that it lacks prescibed terms or that it's unenforceable under S127

 

M

[littleme33]

Ok thanks so should i write to them if so what? or just not bother at all??

[middenmess]

Writing is usually just a waste of a good postage stamp and even if you do write it's unlikely that they'll respond to any point that you make,but that choice is down to you.

 

Rest assured that they will contact you again soon enough!

[littleme33]

Hi,

 

So Apex have contacted me again with a threat o gram , litigation and so on, now my dilemma is i can raise 25% of the debt as F+F then i am acknowledging the debt is this correct??

Or sit tight and wait for the outcome of the testcase this month??

Or shall i write to Apex and point out again that they are not within there rights to commence anything as the account is in dispute re: the 'approved limit' etc??

 

Can i have your thoughts on this please

 

Thanks x x

[Brit]

Firstly I think tipex would be good on your Name and Address also the reference number of your egg account details, because Im sure "they" look around here, also your giving anyone sinister enough information for ID fraud. (we can see through the pen)

 

Delete your PDF's and try again

[littleme33]

Hi Thanks for the advice Brit

i have removed them! basically i have your typical 2003 CCA without re scanning it (as the plugs broken on it !)

 

Can anyone advise?

 

Littleme

[littleme33]

Anyone???

[The Mould]

Hi,

 

So Apex have contacted me again with a threat o gram , litigation and so on, now my dilemma is i can raise 25% of the debt as F+F then i am acknowledging the debt is this correct??

Or sit tight and wait for the outcome of the testcase this month??

Or shall i write to Apex and point out again that they are not within there rights to commence anything as the account is in dispute re: the 'approved limit' etc??

 

Can i have your thoughts on this please

 

Thanks x x

 

Hello there littleme33,

 

 

Can I just ask, how much is the debt?

 

Do you dispute what you owe, or do you dispute the enforceability of the contract?

 

Are Apex in ownership of the debt, or are they a third party acting for Egg?

 

Have you suggested a Settlement Payment to the account, or have Egg or Apex suggested this?

 

Obviously don't ignore the situtation, but do take no notice of the false threaterning letters.

 

Well I shall look out for any reply.

 

Good Luck

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

[littleme33]

Hi and thanks for your reply,

 

I am disputing the enforcebility of the agreement from 2003, I had a letter from Apex some time ago it had a letter from Egg in the same envelope? Saying that they are 'dealing' with the account, the latest letter from Apex says that basically Egg have said its enforceable so contact us with an affordable monthly payment otherwise '....the usual threats etc,

The balance is 3,500,

I haven't put forward an offer yet and they have not suggested one either i just thought it may be an option as its all getting me down now and i'm getting to the point of dreading the doorbell!! and i have been reading on here some horror stories about F+F which are abit off putting?

I received the letter Friday so i better think of something to write back or a plan of action.....

Regards

 

Littleme

[The Mould]

Hi and thanks for your reply,

 

I am disputing the enforcebility of the agreement from 2003, I had a letter from Apex some time ago it had a letter from Egg in the same envelope? Saying that they are 'dealing' with the account, the latest letter from Apex says that basically Egg have said its enforceable so contact us with an affordable monthly payment otherwise '....the usual threats etc,

The balance is 3,500,

I haven't put forward an offer yet and they have not suggested one either i just thought it may be an option as its all getting me down now and i'm getting to the point of dreading the doorbell!! and i have been reading on here some horror stories about F+F which are abit off putting?

I received the letter Friday so i better think of something to write back or a plan of action.....

Regards

 

Littleme

 

Good morning littleme33,

 

OK, so Apex are a third party acting for Egg and trying to enforce or exercise Egg's rights under what you say is an unenforceable credit agreement.

 

As you are in dispute with Egg (The OC), then Apex should cease pursuing you.

 

Write (Do not make or accept any correspondence via the telephone) firstly to Apex and inform them that you are in dispute with Egg and until Egg have resolved this matter you (Apex) are required to cease your actions of pursuing this debt and refrain from making any further contact with me (You), if they do not comply with your respectful and polite request, then state in the letter that you will apply to the courts for an injunction against them under the Protection From Harassment Act 1997, as they have no right to continue making contact with you while the account is in dispute, furthermore, inform Apex that they are not expressly named on the agreement/contract and therefore have no legal right to enforce or exercise any of the terms and conditions stated on the said contract as stated by the Third Party Act 1999.

 

Also state to Apex, that should they continue their involvement in this matter, then they will be pursing a course of conduct that they know or ought to know is against legislation.

 

Check the letter from Apex to see if they are members of Credit Services Association or any other body like that, and if they are, then also state that you will report their Non-compliant activity to this group.

 

Check the agreement to see if Apex are named as a third party.

 

Write a letter to Egg respectfully requesting that they communicate with you and comply with their obligations under The Financial Services Authority regarding their duty to follow complaint/dispute handling proceedures as stated in the FSA'S Hand Book.

 

As far as the credit agreement is concerned, are you absolutely sure of the unenforceability of it?

 

Forgive me for being personal, but are you having a financial crises, and are you in debt to any other creditors, and are you making any arrangements with them as far as Settlements are concerned?

 

I am asking these questions so I can gather a great picture in my mind of you situation, I do have expierence in the law of "Full and Final Settlements". So do not be put off as I would be able to help you in avoiding the traps set by Dca's in relation to this particular field of law.

 

 

Well, I hope this will help you, get those letters sent as soon as you can

and do not take any telephone calls from them, and do not open your door to any field collection agents, and listen, the Dca's and their collections agents have no rights under any law to take anything from you (Your possessions) and have no right to enter into your home, they can only enter into your home if and only if YOU INVITE THEM IN.

 

Please up-date

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[littleme33]

Hi,

Thank-you so much for your interest in my case i do really appreciate it!

It gives me a little hope in an rather awkward situation,

I am roughly £27k in debt, £9,500 of that is a Marks and Spencer cc which is also in dispute,(and to which has been referred to Moorcroft dc) and they are just ignoring the fact that its in dispute, the others i am making arranged no interest/charges payments to

I am on payment arrangements with about 6 cc companies all really low and negociated by me i know its going to be a hard slog to pay off but i am paying and making a dent in them all be it a small one! Egg was going fine until out of the blue the letter came from Apex as has happened to many on this site i believe?

I posted the agreement on here and was advised it was unenforceable due to the term 'agreed limit' and 'approved limit' and i understand there is a test case to be heard in the high court regarding this matter (or similar) this month?

However i am not dismissing my responsibility in paying these debts as at the end of the day i had the cards and i spent on them but i was going through a very tough time due to personal reasons

I'm quite a confident person but i must be honest its all getting to me abit now, thats why i was thinking of F+F of around £800 which i know isnt alot but it would be a means to an end

 

Many Thanks again,

Regards

Littleme

[MandM]

Hi Littleme. If F&F does it for you then certainly look into it as best you can and give it your full consideration.

 

I too have seen a few horrors on here with F&F, but not all of them. And if it works it does at least give closure.

 

The test case on the agreements is a bit further away now, mid-June I believe. I think the March hearing is just a CMC. I spotted it on one of PTs threads - probably the big Egg one. (link in post #2)

 

M

[The Mould]

Hi,

Thank-you so much for your interest in my case i do really appreciate it!

It gives me a little hope in an rather awkward situation,

I am roughly £27k in debt, £9,500 of that is a Marks and Spencer cc which is also in dispute,(and to which has been referred to Moorcroft dc) and they are just ignoring the fact that its in dispute, the others i am making arranged no interest/charges payments to

I am on payment arrangements with about 6 cc companies all really low and negociated by me i know its going to be a hard slog to pay off but i am paying and making a dent in them all be it a small one! Egg was going fine until out of the blue the letter came from Apex as has happened to many on this site i believe?

I posted the agreement on here and was advised it was unenforceable due to the term 'agreed limit' and 'approved limit' and i understand there is a test case to be heard in the high court regarding this matter (or similar) this month?

However i am not dismissing my responsibility in paying these debts as at the end of the day i had the cards and i spent on them but i was going through a very tough time due to personal reasons

I'm quite a confident person but i must be honest its all getting to me abit now, thats why i was thinking of F+F of around £800 which i know isnt alot but it would be a means to an end

 

Many Thanks again,

Regards

Littleme

 

Well hello again Littleme,

 

 

The DCA'S must cease pursuance of the debt when the account is in dispute, they (DCA'S) all know the rules, guidelines and regulations, so there is no excuse for them in pretending that they don't.

 

Yes I do know that being in debt can cause incredible stress and consume your existence, causing serious internal damage to your mind.

 

I am nearing the final and decisive element in my battle against an army of companies who have absolutely wrecked the inside of my character with their protracted unlawful actions against my household, I loath these DCA'S and the creditors and their so very wrongful behavior, I cannot bear to have this feeling of hatred inside of me, but I cannot forgive them for what they have caused to be done to my wonderful family.

 

Don't let this situation bring you down (Its easy for me to say, I know), but really you can and you will overcome this episode in your life.

 

Have you contacted any of your creditors regarding a "Full and Final Settlement"?

 

Forgive me for being personal, but what is the reason for seeking a Settlement to your accounts?

 

Your creditors will ask you this question.

 

Continue with your dispute regarding unenforceable contract, and send a letter to your creditors (Don't communicate on the telephone) politely requesting a Settlement figure from them in order to Settle, close and cancell your account and state the reason why you are requesting to make a Settlement Payment.

 

Under no circumstances should you ever send in a Settlement cheque unless you have an agreement (The meeting of the minds) from your creditors to do so, even if you do end up speaking on the phone with them and they encourage you to send such a payment into them, absolutely do not do it.

 

You will need to prove the "Meeting of the minds" if you make a Settlement payment with any creditor who takes the said payment from you, banks it, and then pursues you for the remaining balance.

 

You will need to prove "Accord and Satifaction", that is to say, that your conduct towards the creditor was indeed considerate, the Settlement Payment must not be a sham, and the reasons for the short Settlement to the account must be genuine and factual.

 

The creditors conduct must also (And equally to your conduct) be fair, reasonable and honest, any conduct of deceit by the creditor in circumstances of "Full and Final Settlements", will not secure a successful out come for them, should the matter ever have to be dealt with(Heard) in the courts.

 

Are you able to arrange for a third party (Could be your father, Uncle, Sister, Neighbour etc) to make the Settlement Payment, because if you are able to do this, then it will afford you incredible immunity against your creditors having any legal right to pursue you for the balance.

 

The creditor must provide a swift "REJECTION" to the Settlement Payment, swift meaning, a period of say 2/4 days is not considered to be fatal by the courts to the creditor, whereas, a period of a week or more is considered by the courts as unacceptable and against the creditor.

 

That's why if you have a third party cheque Settlement Payment(Whether or not debt is disputed) any creditor who presents the said cheque for payment and it is then duly honourd, will absolutely be considered by the courts as a "Clear and unequivocal" acceptance of discharge of the debt.

 

Even if the creditor give's the swift "REJECTION", your saving grace will be the fact of the third party element, indisputable.

 

I do hope this will help you, anything else or that you are unsure of then do not hesitate to let me know.

 

The important thing is make sure you have something in writing from the creditor before you send in any Settlement Offer, and see about getting some help from a third party as far as payment is concerned.

 

Case Law on "Full and Final Settlements" dates back to the 1600's, more than four (4) hundred years.

 

Please up-date when you can

 

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[MandM]

Hi Littleme33 and The Mould.

 

@TM - You seem to have looked quite thouroughly into the ins and outs of F&F. I'll continue to watch this thread and see how it develops as i'm interested in knowing more about it.

 

As an aside, a new thread has just popped up regarding F&F, unfortunately it's been a poor outcome and the OP now has a CCJ to her name. This echoes the warnings sounded in your own words and is yet another 'horror story'.

 

May be worth you taking a peek and see what you think, you too Littleme as this is a perfect example of the pitfalls to be wary of should you continue along the route of F&F.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/251989-egg-ccj-after-agreement.html

 

I see you are nearing the end of your battle TM. I wish you the very best of luck.

 

M