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    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
    • Monika the first four pages of the Private parking section have at least 12 of our members who have also been caught out on this scam site. That's around one quarter of all our current complaints. Usually we might expect two current complaints for the same park within 4 pages.  So you are in good company and have done well in appealing to McDonalds in an effort to resolve the matter without having  paid such a bunch of rogues. Most people blindly pay up. Met . Starbucks and McDonalds  are well aware of the situation and seem unwilling to make it easier for motorists to avoid getting caught. For instance, instead of photographing you, if they were honest and wanted you  to continue using their services again, they would have said "Excuse me but if you are going to go to Mc donalds from here, it will cost you £100." But no they kett quiet and are now pursuing you for probably a lot more than £100 now. They also know thst  they cannot charge anything over the amount stated on the car park signs. Their claims for £160 or £170 are unlawful yet so many pay that to avoid going to Court. When the truth is that Met are unlikely to take them to Court since they know they will lose. The PCNs are issued on airport land which is covered by Byelaws so only the driver can be pursued, not the keeper. But they keep writing to you as they do not know who was driving unless you gave it away when you appealed. Even if they know you were driving they should still lose in Court for several reasons. The reason we ask you to fill out our questionnaire is to help you if MET do decide to take you to Court in the end. Each member who visited the park may well have different experiences while there which can help when filling out a Witness statement [we will help you with that if it comes to it.] if you have thrown away the original PCN  and other paperwork you obviously haven't got a jerbil or a guinea pig as their paper makes great litter boxes for them.🙂 You can send an SAR to them to get all the information Met have on you to date. Though if you have been to several sites already, you may have done that by now. In the meantime, you will be being bombarded by illiterate debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors all threatening you with ever increasing amounts as well as being hung drawn and quartered. Their letters can all be safely ignored. On the odd chance that you may get a Letter of Claim from them just come back to us and we will get you to send a snotty letter back to them so that they know you are not happy, don't care a fig for their threats and will see them off in Court if they finally have the guts to carry on. If you do have the original PCN could you please post it up, carefully removing your name. address and car registration number but including dates and times. If not just click on the SAR to take you to the form to send to Met.
    • In order for us to help you we require the following information:- [if there are more than one defendant listed - tell us] 1 defendant   Which Court have you received the claim from ? County Court Business Centre, Northampton   Name of the Claimant ? LC Asset 2 S.A R.L   Date of issue – . 28/04/23   Particulars of Claim   What is the claim for –    (1) The Claimant ('C') claims the whole of the outstanding balance due and payable under an agreement referenced xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and opened effective from xx/xx/2017. The agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 ('CCA'), was signed by the Defendant ('D') and from which credit was extended to D.   (2) D failed to comply with a Default Notice served pursuant to s87 (1) CCA and by xx/xx/2022 a default was recorded.   (3) As at xx/xx/2022 the Defendant owed MBNA LTD the sum of 12,xxx.xx. By an agreement in writing the benefit of the debt has been legally assigned to C effective xx/xx/2022 and made regular upon C serving a Notice of Assignment upon D shortly thereafter.   (4) And C claims- 1. 12,xxx.xx 2. Interest pursuant to Section 69 County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from xx/01/2023 to xx/04/2023 of 2xx.xx and thereafter at a daily rate of 2.52 to date of judgement or sooner payment. Date xx/xx/2023   What is the total value of the claim? 12k   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes, but amount differs slightly   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. DP issued claim   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not that I recall...   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not that I recall...   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Yes   Why did you cease payments? Loss of employment main cause   What was the date of your last payment? Early 2021   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No   -----------------------------------
    • Hello CAG Team, I'm adding the contents of the claim to this thread, but wanted to open the thread with an urgent question: Do I have to supply a WS for a claim with a court date that states " at the hearing the court will consider allocation and, time permitting, give an early neutral evaluation of the case" ? letter is an N24 General Form of Judgement or Order, if so, then I've messed up again. Court date 25 May 2024 The letter from court does not state (like the other claims I have) that I must provide WS within 28 days.. BUT I have recently received a WS from Link for it! making me think I do need to!??
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

MBNA Court Action


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Long story and am shaking as I write this, head been buried in sand for such a long time and still is. Owe MBNA approx 12,000 and not been able to pay since around early 2007. Ignored them at first then found this site and sent them cca request got a repsonse (which I am trying to figure out how to post). Been served with court papers which need to be submitted by 24th December (merry christmas) and need help. Would like to be able to defed but not sure what to do next. Can anyone help please

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Am usually a very calm and in control person but not coping very well at the moment and I just realised I have not given any real background to this story. CC was with MBNA taken out in 2002 stopped paying late 2006 due to unemployment and various other reasons. Was passed to Link who are the ones issued the court papers on behalf of MBNA. I have no idea if DN was issued but think it probably was. I have spent all day trying to get images on to photobucket and will post copy of what they sent after request for cca. I have read and re read loads of this site but mind just feels as though it is going to explode sometimes and would really appreciate some advice on what to do next.

Thanks

 

I have got all the images loaded on to photobucket but cant seem to attach them here?

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Its hard for anyone to give an opinion without being able to see what is in the relevant documents. If you have got the scans on photobucket, then copy the web address for photobucket on to a post here. People can then access the documents there. Dont forget to take off/ conceal anything that might make them as identifiable as you (most obviously name and address).

Couple of instant thoughts, wilthout having sight of the documents,

 

  1. do you know if Link own the debt, or are they acting on behalf of MBNA? Sometimes they fudge this
  2. if you have just being "playing dead" all this time and not replying to their threatograms, this will encourage them to move to court action. It really doesnt matter if they have the necessary documents to make their claim enforceable. All a court can do is act on the evidence put before them (though they dont always do that very well imo :-x), but, to take a worst case example, if a lender puts an action into court saying that they are owed £x by a debtor, and the debtor puts in no defence, then the court really can only issue the order requested. So, if we can help you to mount a decent defence - and what can be done, depends on what is in them documents - we might yet surprise them! If we do, dont be surprised if it never gets to court.

Please try to get the documents up as soon as you can - the url in the browser address copied into a post here will be fine. ;-)

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mos stuff :: MBNA App form picture by moraghh - Photobucket

 

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

 

Hi all and many thanks for the replies, unfortunately i have had no internet access all weekend. I hope I have attached what they sent in response to a cca request.

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The second link only leads to some corporate stuff about Photobucket. The first to what looks to me like no more than an application form which is totally lacking any prescribed terms. Was this ALL they sent? Was there no more came with what you have posted that contained your signature? If not, then I think your defence should focus on any agreement being improperly executed.

Section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act says

"61.—(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible."

OK so what does that mean? A wee while ago a much more informed CAGer than me, Vint, posted this, which is from Consumer Law by John Keith Mcleod , barrister, professor of law, 2002 Edition,

"To clarify concerning 61(a) of the CCA 1974: This section clearly requires that a regulated agreement including a credit token agreement must comply with the following requirements;

1. it must be in the prescribed form as to the Agreement Regulations.

2. On the SAME side as the signatures, the document itself must contain the terms prescribed in the agreement regulations (reg 6(1)): the credit limit, the rate of interest and a term stating how the financial obligations of the debtor is discharged and these must be stated together as a whole that will ensure that the larger list is included in the actual agreement rather than any document referred to in it. The regulation makes it clear that the absence of these terms takes an agreement outside the dispensing power of the court.

Now to explain what S61(b) means: The document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than the implied terms. This section requires that the regulated agreement contains or refers to all the express terms of the agreement ( NOT THE PRESCRIBED TERMS!!) the T&C's." ENDS

Now to go further: This is called the required terms and it is these terms (and NOT the PRESCRIBED TERMS) that are what is referred to on the NON-SIGNATURE side (the reverse) this is to COMPLY with S.189(4) 'embodies' the terms required by the Agreement regulations so that they must either be in the agreement OR in adocument referred to in it.

So the PRESCRIBED TERMS MUST BE ON THE SAME SIDE AS THE SIGNATURES. If the agreement refers to anything 'overleaf' then it is referring to basically T&C's." ENDS

So what does that mean? Well if the learned Prof is right the document containing your signature should include the prescribed terms - these are the rate(s) of interest; credit limit (or how it will be worked out/ notified to you) and the repayment arrangements. There is clearly none of this on the document that you have posted.

The other sections of the Consumer Credit Act you will need are

  1. Section 65.—(1) which says that "An improperly-executed regulated agreement is enforceable against the debtor or hirer on an order of the court only.". So since there the prescribed terms are missing from the document they have sent you, your defence could be that the agreement is improperly executed. Therefore you are at the mercy of the Court. Or are you, because we then move on to

  2. Section 127 paragraph (3) which says "The court shall not make an enforcement order under ction 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner)." In other words because they couldnt get section 61 right, MBNA cannot expect the court to enforce the agreement because the court doesn't have the authority in law to do this. I dont know if you would want to throw this in as well, but the original author of the 1974 Act, Francis Bennion is quoted as saying re section 127 that "As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County Trust Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97. Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section 127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed that nobody’s human rights were infringed." It might be important to quote this to demonstrate the intention of Parliament in legislating on this.

Put very briefly, your defence could be that the agreement supplied to you by MBNA as a TRUE copy fails to include any prescribed terms and is thus improperly executed (s65) in a way that the court is unable to enforce (s127).

What MBNA will claim in response is that you were informed of the prescribed terms in the "attached terms and conditions", or some other form of words. As you will see from the quote, this isn't enough - "PRESCRIBED TERMS MUST BE ON THE SAME SIDE AS THE SIGNATURES".

As for form of defence, I note from the thread that you have been fortunate in that Monty has happened by. He is the man for the form of legal defences (he was a big help to me when I was in the same position as you with another lender. If its any help you can find this at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dealing-debt-scotland/199747-help-court-papers-m.html. Its not a fantastically long thread - only about three pages - but we start to discuss defences on page 2. It may give you some insights into what you have to do. But Monty is much stronger on this than I).

To finish, some questions for you

  1. as above - is this one document ALL they sent you? There was nothing else? Btw, there may well not be - just checking on what they might rely on in court.

  2. I noticed that the document includes a reference to Link. Who owns the debt? Is it still MBNA and Link are acting on their behalf? Or have MBNA sold the debt to them?

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th_scan0008.jpg

th_scan0005.jpg

 

http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz291/moraghh/mos%20stuff/th_th_scan0005.jpgscan0005.jpg[/img]

 

 

These are the court papers received, Can someone please advise if I should try defending this on what the cca that has been received. I would really appreciate some help and advice as to what to do next. I know I have left it late but panic does terrible things to me.

 

Many thanks

Edited by moragh
Sorry I dont think I put the right link in so am trying again
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Well done to you and the other experts on this site. As I said before I am normally the one taking charge and sorting things out for everybody else but since health and family problems a couple of years ago, confidence seems to have taken a knock and "ostrich" behaviour seemed easier........I am really trying not to panic and reading stories likes yours makes me feel just a little bit braver.

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I would follow up Ida's links. Some of what is there will be of no relevance at all to your case, but some of it will.

On the other hand, as you have to put in your defence by no later than 24th December (Thursday) you dont have a lot of time (and I wouldnt rely on "closing time" being the same that day as normally). I would actually be inclined to get the defence in by no later than Wednesday just to be on the safe side (or if you just miss Wednesday, you will be a in a good position to get it in first thing Thursday. Remember too you will need to get a copy of the defence to whoever is representing Link/ MBNA as well and not just the court. I think you will have to hand deliver this (which is probably always best).

Re the T&Cs (best to use the original link and work through the photobucket album) they look a bit odd to me as the signature document is portrait, while the T&Cs are landscape. Is it just me, or is that a strange thing to do? :confused: The defence I sketched out before is basically saying that the prescribed terms arent on the signature document. If I am right and the T&Cs and sig document dont belong together then this would strengthen the argument.

The court summons looks like the one that I got from M&S, so the process would be similar - though the argument very different.

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Just another thought on the application form, I was self employed in 2002 and the form was completed by a "promotion person" at glasgow airport. the boxes for PPI have both been ticked as self employed and employed. Dont know if it makes any difference.

Thanks again

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is not just an intention to defend that you need?

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ok so you would have a claim at the PPI

 

do you have any default notice?

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I dont know if this applies in Scotland, but it can be done in England - put in what is known as the "embarrassed defence", that to mount a full defence you need certain information which is held by the other party. Monty would be better qualified to advise on that. But if it were possible, it would deal with two problems - getting some kind of defence in quickly with the limited time you have available, but also get you the information about ppi.

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Many thanks.

 

I have had a look at your thread and particularly your defence, so would I submit something similar only along the lines you posted for me earlier? and how do I claim back the PPI?

 

I know I have been stupid in letting things go for so long but I would really appreciate some help in fighting this.

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ok if you can hold off until tomorrow - as it's ordinary cause i am a little unsure on what is needed.

 

Ida x

 

just adding links for reference:

 

http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/library/rules/ordinarycause/index.asp

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