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N244 form filed, baliffs after me cost escalated

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Didn't receive PCN notice from the London Borough Ealing. So filed the PE2/PE3 forms, court refused this so filed a N244 form with my witness statement.

 

I have received a letter from the bailiffs collect services who want to collect the debt and the fine has risen from £240 - £488.

 

Need help what do I do know?

 

Also thinking of transferring the car via DVLA to my friend and telling the bailiffs I am self employed therefore need the car for my business.

 

What do:-| you all think of this and my situation?

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You'll need to provide some more details.

 

Not receiving a PCN may not be grounds for filing a statutory declaration. The relevant grounds would be not receiving an NTO, but I understand that postal PCNs are also NTOs, so it may apply.

 

Also, I assume your statutory declaration was Out of Time? If so, you should have received an Order for Recovery prior to this.

 

It would help if you can say what you did / did not receive.

 

While the N244 i in process, bailiffs should not be acting. Therefore you should not be receiving additional charges until it's sorted out. If this is what has happened, you should be able to get any extra charges reversed.

 

Bailiffs won't accept a tactical transfer of keeper to try and stop them clamping the car. They will clamp it anyway. However if your car is crucial to your living, you can prevent this - but of course you'll have to tell them clearly, and prove this to them - and it won't wipe the debt.

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October 09 I received a letter from the bailiffs telling me to pay for £240 for unpaid PCNS CODE 12. I sent an out of time declaration to the court, they refused this , so now i am filing n244. Did tell the court that I had moved address with redirection, also stated that the code on the bailiffs letter(code 12) relates to parking in a residents bay without a permit, but my council have placed the contravention as code 12 unloading and loading which does not make sense.

 

All i want is the evidence to see whether I had committed an offence to which I would pay, but unfortunately i received no indication I had made a parking contravention.

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not sure what forms your talking about? the out of time declaration forms yes this has to be witnessed by the court and sent back. No worries once the TEC receive your forms they will notify you of the error and ask you to resubmit.

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not sure what forms your talking about? the out of time declaration forms yes this has to be witnessed by the court and sent back. No worries once the TEC receive your forms they will notify you of the error and ask you to resubmit.

 

Over 50,000 Out of Time Declarations were submitted to TEC last year and many are rejected because they are incorrectly completed.

 

On completing the PE7 you simply have to state the REASON WHY you are submitting the Statutory Declaration LATE.

 

The biggest problems that we find is where a person has moved home. All statutory notices WILL HAVE TO be sent to the address where the vehicle was registered at the date of the contravention. There is NO PROCESS for changing the address on the notices.

 

Once a Warrant has been issued, the bailiff company "CLEANSE THE WARRANT". What this means is that they compare the address with the current electoral role and other address finding software to establish a new address and visit this address. This is despite the fact that the bailiff IS NOT ALLOWED to pursue a debtor at an address other than that on the warrant !!

 

When submitting an Out of Time Declaration, we have found a substantial increase in the number of applications that are being REJECTED and a little know fact is the following:

 

When you submit your application to TEC, they must forward a copy to the LOCAL AUTHORITY to consider an they have 19 business days to consider the application.

 

HOWEVER...MANY LOCAL AUTHORITIES ARE NOW PASSING THE OUT OF TIME APPLICATIONS TO THEIR 'BACK OFFICE PROVIDER' TO PROCESS ON THEIR BEHALF AND THESE ARE NEARLY ALWAYS THE VERY SAME BAILIFF COMPANY WHO HAVE A FINANCIAL INTEREST IN ENSURING THE APPLICATION IS REJECTED.

 

In nearly every case that we have seen, the District Judge at your N244 hearing will accept your application, in particular that you need to make it clear that you had moved home. Ensure as well that yo have updated your DVLA records. You will also need to ask the DJ to order that the local authority pay the costs of your application (£75).

 

One an N244 has been submitted, the bailiff company are "strictly prohibited" from enforcing the warrant and they should not therefore be pursuing you. You need to write to them to advise them that they are in breach of clause 8.1 of Part 75 of the CPR Rules.

 

DO NOT PAY.

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good post tomtubby, worthy of a sticky. thanks for that. have a good holiday.

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Tomtubby

 

Why can't bailiffs go after someone at a different address than what's on the warrant? I didn't know they were limited like this. Does this mean they can't clamp a car when it's not at the address?

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good point

 

what about baliffs going about with anpr

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Thank you Tomtubby Happy Christmas and everyone else for your detailed replies ...so does that mean they cannot pursue my car at my new address?

 

I have written to them again noting: 'that they are in breach of clause 8.1 of Part 75 of the CPR Rules'.

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Tomtubby

 

Why can't bailiffs go after someone at a different address than what's on the warrant? I didn't know they were limited like this. Does this mean they can't clamp a car when it's not at the address?

 

The MOJ made a change to part 75.7 of the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR) earlier this year to include a new rule (75.7 (7) as follows ( this change was made with LIMITED consultation only to various local authorities.

 

 

Warrant of Execution

 

75.7

 

(1)An authority seeking the issue of a warrant of execution must file a request –

 

(a)certifying the amount remaining due under the order;

 

(b)specifying the date of service of the order on the respondent; and

 

©certifying that the relevant period has elapsed.

 

(2)The court will seal the request and return it to the authority.

 

(3)Within 7 days of the sealing of the request the authority must prepare the warrant in the appropriate form.

 

(4)No payment under a warrant will be made to the court.

 

(5)For the purposes of execution a warrant will be valid for 12 months beginning with the date of its issue.

 

(6)An authority may not renew a warrant issued in accordance with this Part beyond the 12 month validity period but, subject to paragraph (7), an authority may request the reissue of a warrant during the 12 month validity period.

 

(7)Where the address of the respondent has changed since the issue of the warrant, the authority may request the reissue of the warrant by filing a request –

 

(a)specifying the new address of the respondent;

 

(b)providing evidence that the new address for the respondent does relate to the respondent named in the order and against whom enforcement is sought; and

 

©certifying that the amount due under the order remains unpaid.

 

(8)Where the court is satisfied that the new address of the respondent given in the request for the reissue of the warrant relates to the respondent named in the order, it will seal the request and return it to the authority.

 

(9)The authority must prepare the reissued warrant in the appropriate form within 7 days of the sealing of the request to reissue.

 

(10)A reissued warrant will only be valid for the remainder of the 12 month period beginning with the date it was originally issued.

 

PS: The above change was clearly made without any consultation to the Department for Transport as it totally at odds with sections 10.69 & 10.70 of their own Operational Guidance to Local Authorities under the Traffic Management Act 2004 !!

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Excellent and thank you again Tom Tubby!

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Excellent and thank you again Tom Tubby!

 

My pleasure .....

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I thank you too, tomtubby, but I don't get it. Where in all that does it say that a bailiff can't clamp anywhere except at my address on the warrant?

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My understanding it that the warrant should be served at the address - which is to say, the rights and rules pertaining to walk-in actions (seizing goods from the house) are restricted to the address on the warrant. However in clamping, the vehicle is on the public road. I don't believe there is anything to stop them clamping the vehicle, regardless of the home address of the owner.

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As I have a drive on my new home, is this included or seen as private property? ie would this be seen a trespassing?

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I thank you too, tomtubby, but I don't get it. Where in all that does it say that a bailiff can't clamp anywhere except at my address on the warrant?

 

The bailiff cannot enforce the warrant at a different address to that on the Warrant of Execution.

 

As to how this affects ANPR ( I do not know the answer)

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the bailiff can clamp your vehicle on the driveway of your house, so long as it is the address that is on the warrant, If it was on your friends driveway then that would be a different matter.

 

With regards to ANPR the same rules apply.

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the bailiff can clamp your vehicle on the driveway of your house, so long as it is the address that is on the warrant, If it was on your friends driveway then that would be a different matter.

 

With regards to ANPR the same rules apply.

 

As I have made clear in these replies, a bailiff can only enforce a warrant of execution at the address on the warrant.

 

In the event that a motorist has moved home, it is commonplace for the bailiff to wait to see if the vehicle can be located by one of their in house ANPR vehicles.

 

Naturally the vehicle (if found) is then located at a place that is NOT the address on the warrant and as far as I am concerned, I do not believe that it is legal for a bailiff to enforce the PCN in these circumstances and further...that if payment is to be made to a bailiff after being stopped by an ANPR..he can only request that the motorist make a "voluntary payment".

 

I am sure that I am right...and would welcome comments...

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I have been told repeatedly over many years by almost everyone I believe to be an expert that bailiffs can take your goods anywhere they find them within England and Wales and that the address on the warrant is only to correctly identify the person being enforced against. That seems to be John Kruse's opinion as well.

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Comments - as requested. addresses don't identify people per se. I agree with Tomtubby. But there are of course nuances in the TEC/CPR set up. e,g, these warrants are executed under the Distrain for Rent Rent rules (see OPSI) but there looks to be differences between this rules and and the CPR stuff. E.g. Distrain for Rent says two years for the life of a warrant but IIRC the CPR 'method' has it as twelve months. The regs around parking enforcement have been 'designed carefully'. E.g. The TEC being a 'deemed court' i.e. not a court but considered as one. - it is just a bulk processing centre. This distrain anywhere v the address seems to come from the distrain for rent rules themselves: "Forms of Certificate 3.—(1) A general certificate in Form 1 may be granted only by a Judge and shall authorise the bailiff named in it to levy at any place in England and Wales. (2) A special certificate in Form 2 may be granted by a Judge or Registrar and shall authorise the person named in it to levy only in respect of the distress or distresses to which it applies." see The Distress for Rent Rules 1988 But that is the bailiff's certificate. Just because the bailiff is certified to distrain anywhere in england and wales doesn't mean the warrant is does it ?

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As I have made clear in these replies, a bailiff can only enforce a warrant of execution at the address on the warrant.

 

In the event that a motorist has moved home, it is commonplace for the bailiff to wait to see if the vehicle can be located by one of their in house ANPR vehicles.

 

Naturally the vehicle (if found) is then located at a place that is NOT the address on the warrant and as far as I am concerned, I do not believe that it is legal for a bailiff to enforce the PCN in these circumstances and further...that if payment is to be made to a bailiff after being stopped by an ANPR..he can only request that the motorist make a "voluntary payment".

 

I am sure that I am right...and would welcome comments...

 

 

If the address is the same as on the warrant, and is located by the ANPR elsewhere, then it is fine to seize, anywhere in England and Wales.

 

If the customer has changed address then like I said before the same rules apply, the client should be contacted and asked what they want doing.

 

If someone is trying to defeat distress by hiding their car at their mothers, who lives miles away, why would that not be any different to a bailiff, driving by and spotting the vehicle in his normal van?

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statutory reference ? ? ?

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I have been told repeatedly over many years by almost everyone I believe to be an expert that bailiffs can take your goods anywhere they find them within England and Wales and that the address on the warrant is only to correctly identify the person being enforced against. That seems to be John Kruse's opinion as well.

 

In the case of PCN enforcement, if it were as simple as you say....then WHY would MOJ make the change to section 75 of the CPR Rules as stated above ????

 

John Kruse is without doubt the most knowledgeable person on bailiff law and practice and I have sent a message to him on this point.

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If the address is the same as on the warrant, and is located by the ANPR elsewhere, then it is fine to seize, anywhere in England and Wales.

 

If the customer has changed address then like I said before the same rules apply, the client should be contacted and asked what they want doing.

 

If someone is trying to defeat distress by hiding their car at their mothers, who lives miles away, why would that not be any different to a bailiff, driving by and spotting the vehicle in his normal van?

 

I was referring to the fact of a person no longer living at the address.

 

If the motorist has moved house then you will know that the warrant SHOULD NOT BE ENFORCED and must be returned to the local authority. The Department for Transport has made this point VERY CLEAR to all local authorities in its Operational Guidance to Local Authorities.

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I was referring to the fact of a person no longer living at the address.

 

If the motorist has moved house then you will know that the warrant SHOULD NOT BE ENFORCED and must be returned to the local authority. The Department for Transport has made this point VERY CLEAR to all local authorities in its Operational Guidance to Local Authorities.

 

It doesn't state that at all it says Baliffs should liase with LAs if the address is wrong as the NTO may not have been served and the order invalid. In fact sect 10.73 says the goods can be seized at any address and the certified baliff can ammend the warrant to the new address.

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