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help - DCA reckon found CCA BUT it is dubious


vidrio
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I dunno you know. Would it not look better to a judge if you informed them at least once that you believe the agreement to be unlawful? I'd be very tempted to send one of the templates stating the agreement is unenforceable and requesting they remove your data from their files as per DPA yadda yadda yadda and THEN cease contact.

 

That way yes, you've wasted time on another letter, but you can prove to a judge that upon receipt of the alleged agreement you informed them that they had no legal right to pursue the debt and STILL they persisted.

 

Any thoughts on this?

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Well - if the debt is unenforceable at law, its unenforceable. End of story.

 

Its not for the debtor to tell the collector that. They should know! Its of no legal significance if you tell them or not. The judge would not even consider that in his decision. Its legally irrelevant.

 

The only relevance a letter like that would have would be if you were bringing an harassment case - then, you would need proof that you had warned them their actions were causing you distress and they had no right to do it. Also, if you were bringing a case to have your data removed from a CRA. But Cabot ALWAYS refuse to do that and the law is unclear so its pointless.

 

But my own experience with Cabot is they just dont listen to reason and the more you reply to them the more guff you get back.

 

But if you really wanted to, a final letter saying that you consider the debt unenforceable, any further contact will be harassment and that if they think they have a case, to take you to court. Until then,no further correspondence will be entered into.

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Oh indeed, at law they're completely at fault and he has precedent cases to show for it. I'm just thinking in the event that he does have to go to court, sit before a judge and plead his case. Since its been shown here that CAGers can be unlucky in their allocation of a halfwit judge it might be beneficial to show that he has been reasonably civil and communicative with Cabot, attempting to resolve the matter outside of the courts.

 

But yeah, I'm not experienced with Cabot and if they respond better to being left alone then go with what the other CAGers say. T'was just a thought!

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Hi

 

Thank you all for your comments, very much appreciated and useful tips, really speaking they are harassing. I just received a letter that further to sending the so called copy of "agreement", I have 14 days to reply and if no reply I will be sanctioned by the court, they would win because of CPR rules and overriding objective, just like that :confused: ????

 

Now they did send me a Letter Before Action letter before I sent them the CCA 1974 s78 request letter. is that the usual process???

 

ANy ideas??

 

Yes I see you point, thanks

 

Vidrio ( is a she not he, )

Edited by vidrio
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This is typical of Cabot!

 

Clearly, they have not even fulfilled their obligations under s78 CCA. However, they state that:

 

"I have 14 days to reply and if no reply I will be sanctioned by the court (the overriding objective),"

 

I take the view that, the overriding objective, works both ways;

Cabot must put up or, shut up!

 

Comply fully with your s78 CCA Request...and any other document referred to in it!

Together with a statement of account.

 

Cabot are employing Unfair Practices and attempting to mislead a consumer, you.

 

If they continue to use these covert tactics, report them to the OFT.

 

You may have to use the CPR's yourself to obtain disclosure, if they continue to ride a coach and horses over your consumer rights.

 

Do cabot hold a trur copy of the executed credit agreement that embodies all the prescribed and required terms?;

 

have Cabot provided the inception terms and conditions that fiorm part of that credit agreement?

 

have Cabot provided a statement of account, together with the post contractual statement(s) CCA 2006:;

 

are Cabot the Creditor?;

 

was the account legally assigned to Cabot?;

 

if so, have Cabot provided documentary evidence proving that the account was legally assigned?

 

AC

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Hi thanks for you reply...

 

Well they have not complied with a provision of disclosure , cca 1974 request to provide a copy of a compliant, legal abiding contract of agreement according to the CCA 1974 and respective regulations, but received just an application form with a funny name crossout, not account number reference, no containing any pre-scribed terms and conditions and a signature date modified!!!

 

Also not account statements received

 

Also no Default notice received

 

Also no Notice of assignment received

 

Also no copy of the deed, obviously no, it is forbidden!!!

 

In fact I did asked to the status of the original agreement, is it in your cabinet?? not answer!!!!

 

So in fact they have denied myself to get access to those document so I have not broken any cpr rules have I? I tried to follow the overriding objectives but All I get back is just harassment for money.

 

But In fact they have denied ever using unfair practices well it is up to the OFT, FOS, TS to make that decision !!!;)

 

The thing is they have already issued a letter before action...

 

so I am getting prepared........

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Use CPR (not sure which one) as they have already issued an LBA.

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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Thanks for the info

 

Hi

 

Would anybody that know about this CPR explain to me about the liabilities or implications about issuing this request, without starting proceedings. i.e am I liable to court cost???

 

and What evidence I need to issue a disclosure under cpr 31.16 if it is correct

 

 

thanks

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Have you sent an LBA yet?

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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No, what I said before I issued a CCA request to the first DCA / OC and they defaulted more than a year ago in fact they closed the account.

 

Now after a long time this present DCA alleged THEY BOUGHT THE DEBT and issued a LBA letter and I consequently issued the CCA request to them and they defaulted initially but lately received this dubious agreement. It is unfair because the OC sold this debt to this DCA while it was disputed !!!

 

At the moment I considering my options!!!

 

What I need to know follows

 

Would anybody that know about this CPR explain to me about the liabilities or implications about issuing this request, without starting proceedings. i.e am I liable to court cost???

 

and What evidence I need to issue a disclosure under cpr 31.16 if it is correct

 

in summary will the court make me liable in any manner cost if it find me unfair or would the DCA CLAIM COST FOR THIS REQUEST OR CONTERCLAIM....

 

Any comment please

 

thanks

 

thanks

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You haven't made a counterclaim yet and would only be charged if and when you do. Using CPR is a useful tool for disclosure before any court action. If they serve you with an LBA as they are threatening legal action. You are then only countering their claim buy using CPR but you haven't issued proceedings ;)

"To love unconditionally is the greatest gift, laughter is a close second" .To give your time to help others after being helped here is the best way to show your appreciation to your fellow CAG members.

 

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Seek the advice of an insured qualified professional if you have any doubts. All my knowledge has been gained here, for which I'm very grateful. I'm a Journalist, not a law professional.

 

If you do PM, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private ;)

BB 13 - DCAs/banks and solicitors 0.

 

I get a fresh start to get on with learning to live with severe disabilities when they could have had something if they'd been understanding...

 

<--- If you feel I've helped, please twinkle my star :)

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In reality, you should write once again to Cabot; pursue them for full compliance under their obligations of your s78 CCA Request.

 

If they fail to meet their legal obligations, then you can twist their arm and;

 

Use CPR Part 31.16:

PART 31 - DISCLOSURE AND INSPECTION OF DOCUMENTS - Ministry of Justice

 

CPR 31.16 is used for disclosure before proceedings start.

 

Please do not be panicked into starting proceedings against them; not necessary!

 

Always better to defend...

make Cabot do the running around.

 

AC

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hi

 

Thanks for feedback.

 

Yes point taken, in fact a solicitor that know my neighbour said that,

basically they have not complied in FULL !!! UNDER THE CCA 1974 Creditor obligations because I have not received DEFAULT NOTICE and not even notice of assignment.

 

Hence it would be considered an UNFAIR practice due to

1.4

 

The objectives of pre-action protocols are:

(1) to encourage the exchange of early and full information about the prospective legal claim,

 

(2) to enable parties to avoid litigation by agreeing a settlement of the claim before the commencement of proceedings,

 

(3) to support the efficient management of proceedings where litigation cannot be avoided.

 

and as pt said on his thread they are no giving me enough time to assess the case.

 

I am entitled to as much info as I need and it is my right!!!

 

Thanks

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At the end of the day, they should not even contemplate taking any Court action against you, until they have fulfilled the requirements of your legal request under s78 CCA:

 

A true executed copy of the alleged credit agreement;

the inception terms and conditions of that credit agreement;

statement of account and;

PPI (if applicable) documents.

 

The DCA (debt buyer) involved knows this!

 

Re: any CPR disclosure request, you are entitled to the documents that the claimants case relies upon, in order to either defend or, counter-claim.

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Update

 

1) On having a further cross examination on the documents after they sent me the so called dubious agreement, it has got a number appearing at the top, above the printed name which is actually not my name ( crossout and changed in handwriting to my name ), a 16 digits number which is TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO THE 16 digits number NUMBER PROVIDED BY THE DCA in their letter FOR THIS TYPE of account. Now would that prove this is the wrong agreement ???.

 

From a different thread,

Bazooka Boo said

 

"

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom a viewpost.gif

The problem I find with the Cabot letter is the last 8 digits of the account number are different to my account number.

 

Thats because they have got it filed under their own reference system, using their own account numbers.

 

Send them nothing, [email protected] are a waste of space."

 

 

 

 

But as the cross examiner said ( can not be revealed) thesse are the only reference numbers provided and are incorrect!!!

So would that make this document incorrect. besides there are not pre-scribed terms and conditions contained in the signature box, on the same page where it was signed!!!

 

 

 

2) Also it is almost illegible but at the bottom of the document, only a single page, it says:

"..the general conditions applying to the card as set out separately and the details about the card as set out overleaf.."

 

Now there is nothing overleaf on the same sheet of paper, as it is blank but as I said before the separate documents sent , unsigned, saying terms and conditions is a 2 pages a4 size, hardly overleaf because it would not fit all on an a4 size paper and it is unsigned and it is referred as "this is a copy of your agreement" but not reference whatsoever or link or page number to the first page.

 

 

Any comments please. I f anybody know Bazooka Boo please asking for comments.

 

Thanks

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I think you are worrying about nothing - Cabot cannot take you to court or if they do, they haven't a snowball in Hell's chance winning and they know it. There is no agreement, no original Terms and Conditions, no statements, no Notice of Assignment and no Default Notice - that is more than enough to be getting on with. If you have sent them the Account in Dispute letter, that is all you can do. I would ignore anything else they send and let them waste their money sending more.

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I think you are worrying about nothing - Cabot cannot take you to court or if they do, they haven't a snowball in Hell's chance winning and they know it. There is no agreement, no original Terms and Conditions, no statements, no Notice of Assignment and no Default Notice - that is more than enough to be getting on with. If you have sent them the Account in Dispute letter, that is all you can do. I would ignore anything else they send and let them waste their money sending more.

 

 

Hi

 

thanks you for reply.

 

the thing is this account has been in dispute with the original creditor for over 2 years, got the evidence and then they sold the account to this present DCA while in dispute and the TS is not impressed by it at all such they told me. Awaiting investigation !!!

 

How the present DCA is going to deny a previous dispute before their time.

 

 

 

 

Thanks

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Received your PM...having read through this thread it would seem that sound advice is at hand and maybe you are worrying a little to much....

 

 

Hi

 

Many thanks for your kind reply, I understand what you mean

 

just a bit concern how to deal with this DCA in case I miss something, that is all

 

again Thank you

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Received your PM...having read through this thread it would seem that sound advice is at hand and maybe you are worrying a little to much....

 

Agree, you are worrying too much.

 

Please bear in mind that, firms such as Cabot delight in making consumers run around like headless chickens...they want you to act like: a headless chicken!

 

As stated prior, if you wish you can pursue them once again by sending another letter but after that, leave Cabot to think about their LEMON.

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