My car is still clamped!!! help please!

[Swissdino]

Hi there,

 

Hoping someone has some advice because despite searching on here and google I can't seem to find a definitive answer...

 

A couple of months ago a Marstons bailiff arrived to collect for 3 unpaid PCN's, and promptly clamped my car, so I came straight to this website did a little reading and filed out of time declarations for all three and by emailing them back and speaking to the local parking officer managed to get the clamp taken off the same day, wahoo!...

 

unfortunately it seems as though my 3 tickets appeared back in court who promptly refused my right to appeal them, the local authority claim to have sent paperwork to this effect which has never appeared on my doormat...

 

Last tuesday the bailiff returned, as is always my stance I never speak to them and refuse to answer the door, he pushed a 'removal notice' through the letterbox and clamped my car again - on the same day I sent him a text message saying that he was welcome to take the car as I was on benefits and has no assets of value. (no reply)

 

This was a week ago now, I'm not working at the moment so haven't needed the car urgently thinking that I can wait him out, problem is that my car is parked in a time sensitive residents zone and has accumulated 4 pcn's since the clamp went on, my main questions are....

 

How long can they leave the clamp on? (I thought they had 24 hours to remove the vehicle?)

 

Are the 4xnew pcn's valid as I was parked legally until being clamped at which point I have no option to move the vehicle?

 

Any help, opinions would be gratefully received!!

 

Kind Regards, Dean.

[RaeUK]

... on the same day I sent him a text message saying that he was welcome to take the car as I was on benefits and has no assets of value. (no reply)...

 

Hi swiss.

First of all as you are on benefits than you may fall into the vulnerable category. This is the list as appears in the National Guidelines for Bailiffs:

 

Those who might be considered vulnerable include the following:

the elderly;

people with a disability;

the seriously ill;

the recently bereaved;

single parent families;

pregnant women;

unemployed people; and,

those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

 

 

Should this be the case then the Ministry of Justice advises that you need to apply to the appropriate Magistrates Court for a re-hearing. You should then be able to arrange an affordable payment plan with the court without further bailiff involvement.

 

It is interesting that you have notified the bailiff of your situation. He should be working to the standard of the National Guidelines and, theoretically, is in a position to notify both his employers and the court of your possible vulnerable position...

 

I will leave it to more capable others to advise you as to what bailiff fees you should be paying.

 

 

Rae

[tomtubby]

Hi there,

 

Hoping someone has some advice because despite searching on here and google I can't seem to find a definitive answer...

 

A couple of months ago a Marstons bailiff arrived to collect for 3 unpaid PCN's, and promptly clamped my car, so I came straight to this website did a little reading and filed out of time declarations for all three and by emailing them back and speaking to the local parking officer managed to get the clamp taken off the same day, wahoo!...

 

unfortunately it seems as though my 3 tickets appeared back in court who promptly refused my right to appeal them, the local authority claim to have sent paperwork to this effect which has never appeared on my doormat...

 

Last tuesday the bailiff returned, as is always my stance I never speak to them and refuse to answer the door, he pushed a 'removal notice' through the letterbox and clamped my car again - on the same day I sent him a text message saying that he was welcome to take the car as I was on benefits and has no assets of value. (no reply)

 

This was a week ago now, I'm not working at the moment so haven't needed the car urgently thinking that I can wait him out, problem is that my car is parked in a time sensitive residents zone and has accumulated 4 pcn's since the clamp went on, my main questions are....

 

How long can they leave the clamp on? (I thought they had 24 hours to remove the vehicle?)

 

Are the 4xnew pcn's valid as I was parked legally until being clamped at which point I have no option to move the vehicle?

 

Any help, opinions would be gratefully received!!

 

Kind Regards, Dean.

 

You cannot file an Out of Time Declaration UNLESS you had either not received the PCN/Notice to Owner or that you appealed the PCN's and had not received a formal rejection.

 

An Out of Time CANNOT be filed becuse the car had been clamped !!

 

What reason was given as to why the Out of Time was being filed?

 

The vast majority of the public would be shocked to know that the local authority do not refuse the Out of Time declarations but instead pass them to the BAILIFF COMPANY to deal with on their behalf. !!! This is a source of a huge amount of correspondence from our business to MOJ and the Department of Transport.

 

Naturally the bailiff company will REJECT the application and that is why consideration should most certainly be given to appealing the refusla by way of an N244 application.

 

There is a fee to pay for this but as you are on benefits you will need to complete an EX160 form for exemption.

 

I can only assume that the vehicle is not worth much money as otherwise it would have been removed and SOLD !!!

[Swissdino]

Thankyou for your replys.

 

My original OOT Dec's were filed because I hadn't seen the original pcn's and the first I heard of them was my car being clamped.

 

Your right, my car is worth very little and probably wouldn't cover the extortionate bailiff fees (I'm not the kind of person who'd consider going on to benefits while parking an expensive car outside the house...)

 

But I still don't have an answer as to the additional parking tickets and how long they are allowed to keep it clamped if they have no intention of removing the car.

[Swissdino]

I have finally managed to get a hold of the bailiff, he's saying that I don't qualify as a vunerable person as and I quote "your a normal human being who understands me just fine and aren't on disability benefits"

 

Does anyone have any knowledge on this subject? his only reply is to contact the ministry of justice and complain to them.

 

Regards, Dean.

[wonkeydonkey]

Judging by the number of people who have been brought to task for making to sell/remove a vehicle while levied, the bailiff is accepting responibility for it while it is in his "care"

I suppose you are legally obliged to notify the DVLA of change of ownership backdated from the day of the levy?

 

It would of course be wrong to suggest the guidlines set out (as in posting by Kelcou) are subject to the bailiff's interpretation of them, for we all know they never bend the rules.

 

wd

Edited December 16, 2009 by wonkeydonkey

[tomtubby]

Thankyou for your replys.

 

My original OOT Dec's were filed because I hadn't seen the original pcn's and the first I heard of them was my car being clamped.

 

Your right, my car is worth very little and probably wouldn't cover the extortionate bailiff fees (I'm not the kind of person who'd consider going on to benefits while parking an expensive car outside the house...)

 

But I still don't have an answer as to the additional parking tickets and how long they are allowed to keep it clamped if they have no intention of removing the car.

 

If you had not received any statutory notices have you asked the local authority or TEC what address all notices had been sent to .

 

This is VITALLY IMPORTANT as this will be the reason as to why you should appeal the rejection by way of an N244.

 

On the point of how long the vehicle can remain clamped. The bailiff should only be seizing goods if they can be sold to pay towards the debt and NOT simply to pay removal fees. The vehicle should therefore be removed and sold as soon as possible. In most case, the bailiff will sell a car within approx 10 days of its removal.

 

It is also possible that the bailiff knows that the warrants in his possession are against a previous address. You NEEDS to find out!!

Edited December 16, 2009 by tomtubby

[RaeUK]

I have finally managed to get a hold of the bailiff, he's saying that I don't qualify as a vunerable person as and I quote "your a normal human being who understands me just fine and aren't on disability benefits"...

 

Hi Swiss, my second favourite qoute will shed a little more light:

 

 

Quote from Karen Buck MP 02/06/09 making the Bailiffs (Repeal and Amendments) first reading:

 

"...Some bailiffs and courts rely on case law, which holds that a distress warrant cannot be withdrawn once it has been issued. That directly contradicts the national standards for enforcement agents, which suggests a procedure enabling the bailiff to return cases of vulnerable fine defaulters to the court. The procedure to bypass this anomaly recommended by the Ministry of Justice is to write a letter to the court asking for a re-hearing of the case. In practice, however, neither bailiffs nor fine defaulters seem to know this..."

 

In the first intance I would write to the appropriate court for a re-hearing. I would also give serious thought to a formal complaint to both the bailiff company and the local council in charge.

The unemployed are included as vulnerable for a reason. A very low fixed income creates a lot of stress, worry, anxiety, depression and pressure. The Government is very aware that, in recent years, people have committed suicide over their level of debt - including bailiff charges. This is not a method to avoid the debt but to assist those people to pay at a rate safe to their sanity.

It is a shame things have gone so far. I know - from experience - my local council, once they knew I was on benefits, were very happy to send me a paying in book and agree an affordable plan to pay my charge.

Obviously, it is your choice what you do. I am simply making you aware that this avenue is available to you.

I would imagine your bailiff either isn't fully aware of how he should behave or, if he is, then he is still looking at you as a potential piggy bank.

Good luck

Rae

Edited December 16, 2009 by RaeUK
typoo

[Swissdino]

Thanks Kelcou, That's exactly the clarification I was looking for.

 

I now need to ensure they don't remove my car before I can get the case re-heard!

[Nintendo Pü]

Is this any use?

 

http://www.dca.gov.uk/enforcement/agents02.htm#part10

If you need help from a professional body in dealing with bailiffs then Z2K might be able to help. http://www.z2k.org/supporting-vulnerable-households

[RaeUK]

You're welcome Swiss.

 

Nintendo, good links - as always - hope you haven't copywrited them as I've just pinched them!

 

Rae

Edited December 17, 2009 by RaeUK
typoo

[Swissdino]

Unfortunately, the council are refusing to have the case reheard saying that i'm don't qualify under the vulnerable person status and the bailiffs still aren't doing anything with the car...which is unsurprising as it was only worth £400 when i bought it and won't cover their fees let alone any of the original fines.

 

I guess I'll just have to get another cheap car to run and when he gets bored of not having a clamp earning money and takes it off I'll sell the car...

[Nintendo Pü]

I have no other suggestion so this is my best shot.

 

You have 3 PCN's, they should be £95 each including court costs without any fees added.

 

The bailiff is lawfully entitled to charge £28 per visit (but not £28 per ticket) for a maximum of three visits.

 

Can you pay that? or get the money together to make an offer to the bailiff and ask he remove the clamp.

 

If the bailiff is charging fees for fixing or removing a wheel clamp, I'm afraid you are locked in a position where the bailiff can extort any fee he likes before removing the clamp, so your plan must include paying the bailiff whatever he wants and recover the car, then you can litigate the money back from the council later - it all earns 8% interest accruable on a daily basis, so your money is not a lost cause.

 

The law does not provide for bailiffs to charge fees to fix a clamp or turn up at an address in vans etc. The Culligan case highlights the case a bailiff cannot lawfully charge fees to fix or remove a wheel clamp. (Anthony Culligan v Marstons 8CL51015).

 

If you can collate the money and the LAWFUL fees, but the bailiff is not cooperating, or is defrauding you with his fees, then you can start charging deprivation of the normal use of your car from the day the clamp was fixed. The courts typically award about £10 per day plus the cost of rental cars and taxis while yours was out of service, these are called disbursements, so keep all your receipts.

 

The clamp will be fixed to the passenger front wheel, you can remove the driver side front wheel and fix locking wheel nut to the axle stub. This stops fixing a temporary wheel for towing, but doesn’t prevent a HIAB lifting it off the ground.

 

If your car is clamped on a public highway, you could play the Statute of Marlborough 1287 card, its still on the statute book and its (well technically) unlawful for a bailiff to levy on a debtors goods in a public place.

 

If it is on private land then the landowner has a right to claim the deprivation of the normal use and enjoyment of his land. You don’t need receipts because this falls under common law.

 

Claims for bailiff fee recovery are always made against the council that instructed the bailiff. If it becomes necessary to litigate, then you can name the bailiff as a 2nd defendant on your Form N1 you file at court.

 

If the car's value is less than the amount claimed by the bailiff then you could de register the vehicle with the DVLA, disclaim responsibility for it, and push it onto a public road. Remember to cancel the insurance and reclaim unexpired tax. You then ask the council to clear it as scrap and thats the bailiff paid up, it became his responsibility he took possession by fixing the clamp.

[Swissdino]

Nintendo Pu, very nicely put together information. Many thanks for your help!

[RaeUK]

Swiss, sorry if I wasn't clear. It's not for the council to say the case won't be re-heard it is for the appropriate Magistrates Court. You apply to them for a re-hearing as advised by the MoJ not the council. They will not refuse you.

As for the council perhaps an email to the chief executive highlighting the link to the National Guidelines for Enforcement Officers as this is the standard they should work to. Feel free to qoute Karen Buck MP (Labour) whilst you're at it.

To reiterate, it is the Magistrate who will give the final say on your status not the council.

Good luck.

Rae

Edited December 18, 2009 by RaeUK
typoo

[letsmakeamark]

Right. Lets get to the bottom of this. If your out of times were rejected you have 28 days to file a n244. If this 28 day period has passed you will be stuck. You need to get this application in.