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    • @dx100uk @ anyone else interested in Fighting HSBC UK  Staff/department non compliance and incompetence/interference in between HSBC UK and customers.   I wanted to know what you guys had to say about the reply i got from HSBC UK today.    Recap. I originally turned to HSBC UK to be reunited with Money i saved in accounts that where frozen and made dormant during the year 1995.   HSBC UK Teams tell me that HSBC UK only allows them to have access to account records dated back 6 years. there for they do not have the records, can not locate the records i requested for in my SAR. there for HSBC UK teams Ignored my SAR application for records of accounts made frozen and dormant during the year 1995. HSBC then claim if the accounts where closed they will no longer hold records of these accounts and tell that to the ICO. I again explained to HSBC UK and the ICO the records of accounts where left frozen and dormant.   HSBC UK teams continue to tell me over the phone that The records i requested for in my SAR, will not be located or do not exist because HSBC only allows them to have access to records of accounts dated back 6 years.    I returned to HSBC highlighting there is no such provision in the Data Protection Act.   HSBC UK teams today totally ignored my complaint again and confirmed with me they are classing my complaint as wanting to locate accounts that where closed.   Let me know what you think about the  HSBC UK teams response to my last complaint. Is there any other letters i can send them to confirm thay are not correct about what they have done.    The HSBC UK letter starts of by:You've been unable to recover funds you held in HSBC UK Accounts that were closed in 1994 to 1995, and to obtain the account details for the accounts concerned. You've been advised that we only retain records for up to 6 years, but you've been unable to locate any provision for this within the Data Protection Act (DPA). You require a Certificate of Destruction from HSBC UK to evidence the destruction of the data concerned. You feel your Subject Access Request (SAR) has been ignored by HSBC UK.   HSBC UK Teams now go on to explain: In respect of you being advised we only retain records for up to 6 years, but having been unable to locate any  provision for this within the Data Protection Act (DPA), I can confirm that under the DPA, we are obliged to only keep records for as long as we deem necessary, in order to effectively manage our data. So, for most cases, this will be for no more than 6 years.   In regards to your request for a Certificate of Destruction from HSBC UK to evidence the destruction of the data concerned, I regret that this isn't something that we can provide, as we don't keep records of when individual customer data was destroyed. I'd also like to clarify that if the accounts concerned were closed after becoming dormant, that we would have sent you closing statements at the time.   Lastly, I'm sorry you feel we've ignored your SAR. I want to assure you that we'll always look to accommodate a request for a SAR as best as we can. However, if we're unable to locate the account details and information required, this will mean we're unable to fulfil the request, which has unfortunately been the case on this occasion.   How else do you think i can highlight to HSBC that the teams dealing with My complaint, and request to be reunited with my money is not going to departments that can deal with my demand for services.?  
    • Hi   I have to agree if you have paid off the debt owed to them via this meter and are up to date on your bills  I would look at changing supplier and as said asking new supplier to install a standard meter and look for the best deals for you.
    • I have severe anxiety and going to leave my job and have been invited to a meeting but dont wish to attend that is three hours away from where I am. Can I legally give the  permission to decide without my being there? I cannot handle going as I know I'm going to be fired anyway as on my final warning. I'm also giving in my notice this week too! This job is just too much for me now and I cannot work here any longer. It's no good for my health and sanity  I am sick to my stomach thinking about going and about to hand my notice in anyway    
    • Thankyou it’s because I’m awaiting the outcome and a friend said I will be turned down as I asked them a while back if I had ppi on the account and how much it was and they replied.  But they did only send me a short confirmation with the amount and that they trust that answers my enquiry. i just wanted to be prepared if they wouldn’t turn me down based on that. Thanks for your advice on that mate 
    • removed again pcn number still showing   dx  
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salviablue

getting sued and made bankrupt by solicitors from failed no win no fee claim

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Hi guys,

Hope this is the correct place.

 

Some time back I was involved in a car crash where someone drove across my right of way at a junction.

The police ruled in my favour.

However, i later found out the insurance was being sued for injuries etc, and that when I talked to them about they said that they'd probably end up paying out, even though it was the other parties fault.

 

So after discussing it with others, I was convinced to proceed with a counter claim. So i begrudgingly took up the claim with a firm of solicitors, no win, no fee.

 

During the course of the following few months, the solicitors kept asking me to effectively do their work for them, despite when i discussed the procedure with them, before commissioning the solicitors, they told me that i would really have to do anything, just provide them with my statement, police log no., insurance details, agree to an examination from a private doctor etc..

The first thing that struck me as odd was them asking me to photograph the crossroad where the crash occurred. I did initially agree to photograph the scene, because at the time i had thee means to do so. But after photographing the scene, but before i managed to transfer the images to a pc and then email them on, my phone was stolen.

I informed the firm of this, and in a round about way they said they would continue, but that photographic evidence would be beneficial.

I should have confronted them there and then, if those photo's are so important, then surely shouldn't they endevour to take them, esp considering their firm is only based with in 20mi of the scene, and that they have been commissioned to act for me, and on a no win no fee, and that their charge was something v.excessive like 50% of any awarded monies.

 

Any way, after some weeks they proceeded to contact me again, informing me that to proceed with the claim, there is a witness they have failed to be able to contact that may be pivotal to the claim. They asked me if I could contact the witness!!!! They have more means of contact at their disposal than I, and any form I have, so do they?!?

 

After the case handler changing, a lack of being able to get in touch with "the appropriate person" about the case, i became very despondent about the whole thing and regretted ever even having anything to do with the whole claim culture crap.

 

So from that point i gave it up as a bad experience and moved on.

 

about 2 years later i got a bill of costs for nrly £3k!

I phoned them about this, only got to speak to a secretary (I think), explained the position and that unless i had won the case, i owed them nothing and consider the account clear and closed. If the case won, then where is my award? and why not take your fees from it?

 

The next i heard from them was from an applicatino for a statutory demand thing (bankrupt me). Despite every reference to me being a different name or address, and the letter going to my parents address, thus i only recieved it after 2 weeks had already passed. I managed to get the set aside filled and handed in in time and the judge has set a hearing for the set aside.

 

Then two weeks after the set aside i get response pack n9a/c where the solicitors are suing me for their perceived outstanding bill of costs.

 

Surely, ontop of everything else, isn't this trying to use a bankruptcy order to recover a perceived debt, which i thought was supposed to be deemed "bad practice", then when i applied for a set aside, they apply to sue me.

 

If they truelly believe that i cannot pay a debt, hence the bankruptcy, why are they suing me AFTER the bankruptcy application??

 

Surelt they should have tried to have the debt "official" i.e. either i admit it or they have it judged i owed it. Then sue me, then failing a win but me not paying up, then go for bankruptcy??

 

There is more but i have to go now. I shall fill in more info later, but any advice would be most welcome. If there is anything i can provide that may help helping me, i will endevour to provide it.

 

Thankyou

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Did you sign a contract making it clear this was a conditional fee arrangement? If so, and you should have done, it would probably have stated that you were responsible for any costs if you chose to discontinue the claim. When you say you gave up and moved on do you mean you told them to discontinue? If you did then I'm afraid you do owe them money. If you never gave them such an instruction then I'm not sure you do.

Edited by hightail
typos - again

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Have a look at the SRA website, and the Code of Practice for solicitors - it contains very detailed information about how solicitors must act in relation to making costs clear before commencing work, and similarly how they must act where conditional costs arrangements are involved.

 

You may be able to bring a complaint against them through the Legal Complaints Service.

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Follow SP's advice ........... in the meantime warn them that you intend to vigorously defend yourself & reserve the right to mount a counter claim

 

Was the SD sealed by the court & if so have you responded to the court

 

Incidentally the court will not take kindly to them using bankruptcy proceedings to recover a consumers debt. Also from what you say they are a pretty hopeless bunch & I suspect you won't be the 1st to complain to the SRA

Edited by JonCris

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PS did you sign a client care letter & did they insure you, via ATE (After The Event) insurance or did you have BTE (Before the Event) insurance otherwise known as Legal Expenses Insurance which is often part of your RTA policy. Such insurance could even be part of your household insurance or Credit Card

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Very disturbing story how long is this going back ?

Can you pm me the name of the company ?

In the last 18 months or so there has been greater regulatory conditions and requirements imposed.


Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Threads merged. Please do not start multiple threads for the same consumer issue.


My advice is based on my opinion, my experience and my education. I do not profess to be an expert in any given field. If requested, I will provide a link where possible to relevant legislation or guidance, so that advice provided can be confirmed and I do encourage others to follow those links for their own peace of mind. Sometimes my advice is not what people necesserily want to hear, but I will advise on facts as I know them - although it may not be what a person wants to hear it helps to know where you stand. Advice on the internet should never be a substitute for advice from your own legal professional with full knowledge of your individual case.

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This affair is a classic case of NOT being told the caveats. Whilst 'no win, no fee' arrangements are fine for the pursuer, they do not take into account any costs award made AGAINST the pursuer, who will remain liable for the costs of the 'winner'.

 

I am assuming it is these costs that are being levied on you - and on the face of it, if you cause a defender to incur these costs to protect themselves from your litigation, if you lose or withdraw, then you become liable for them -it has nothing to do with any conditional arrangement you have had with your solicitor.

 

HOWEVER, I would have expected that this risk would have been pointed out to you as part of the original meeting to prepare your claim. If you were NOT told that you would be liable for the other side's costs (the no win-no fee only applying to YOUR solicitors) you not been given the full story, and I thnik there may well be negligence in their advice.

 

None of this affect the money owed to the other party, which will have to be paid by some means, but whether you have the stomach to pursue your advisors for these amounts is somethng only you can decide.

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Thanks for the prompt replies.

i don't know what happened about the double post thread thing, after I posted this thread i got a mail telling me it had been removed and un-approved. I changed a detail, reposted, and was waiting for approval. Then I check in on here today and there was like 5 messages telling me my post was re-approved.

 

The accident happened 2005, and I took up the case with the solicitors a few weeks later I think.

 

I cant remember what i signed, tbh. It was during quite a bad point in my life.

 

I did not inform the solicitors that I had "given up" on them and the case. Some of the last contact I had with an actual case handler, they didn't really paint a good picture of the possibilities of success. Contact seemed to mutually fizzle out, they did make more attempts at contacting me than I them, but I did not ignore them until they where implying that unless i took photos and contacted this witness, then the case would collapse/fail.

 

I have done some minimal research on this firm recently, and they actually seem to be one of the ok solicitor firms. I can't find any obvious "dirt" on them, or even previous accounts of fumbled claims. So I can't really understand how things have got to how they have. Although it is totally typical of my luck to end up getting sued for an accident not my fault, then ending up out of pocket on the counter claim!

 

Surely its just a case of did the accident occur? yes, see police and witness reports.

Whos fault was it? See police report.

Is there a claim for injury/damages? See personal statement, hosp/docs records, supporting evidence.

Case closed, damages awarded.

Total time circa 3 - 6 months.

 

 

 

In the reply from the set aside, about which the judge wishes to hear evidence, court date in march, there was included a list of dates when the firm ha contacted me, along with corresponding notes to each contact attempt. Nearly all of those dates have notes stating that there was no reply/contact, messages left of which they had no reply. They are stating that I did not co-operate with them because they could not contact me and i did not reply to messages. Yet on this list they do not state the times I did contact them.

 

I wanted to SAR them for this list and for them to include also a full break down of their perceived fees. Except that I have now only 16 days to prepare my defence (I returned the acknowledgement of service, ticking the I intend to defend the full claim box, also asked to have the case transferred to my local court) and they only have to respond to the SAR with in 40 days. Although I was reading somewhere that I could use some procedural ruling to get them to release all their info on me before the case hearing/to prepare the defence...CPR or something?

 

I would rather be able to quash these claims through "technicallity", prefereably before getting in court, than arguing my why's and when's, especially since it seems they have "evidence" (they have records suiting them) and I don't. Also I have no ideahow I contacted them, I have had several phone no.s during and since the ordeal, sometimes mobile only, unregistered pay as you go...

Also I have had no experience of the law and courts ever going in my favour, rightfully so or not. Infact, quite the opposite, the system has failed me over and over.

 

Also I suffer from anxiety, and this has recently made it a whole lot worse, that and some other totally unrelated matters, and i fear standing in court, having to defend myself against trained proffessional liars, will just either cloud my mind so I can't think straight, or just emotionally breaking down, either becoming a molten jibbering wreck, or a ranting and raving freak, either way not currying me favour.

 

Another thing that worries me is that since returning the disputed claims for bankruptcy, I have remembered more things regarding the case that i did not include on the form. And then there are points that i am not entirely sure of, like I have a memory of speaking to the practice manager at some point, but according to them, I never spoke to him? Also I no nothing of times, dates, names etc.

I don't even have the contract. Or know what I signed, or even if I signed (must have because i remember having the contract at some point).

 

There is no breakdown for the bill, its just listed as bill of costs for services rendered, court fees and interest.

 

I dont even remember with whom I was insured, I have an inkling, but I am not entirely sure. I remembered leaving them though because they would not defend against the damages the guy-whos-fault-the-accident-was sued me for.

 

the problem with complaining to the sra is that i can't honestly remember exactly what was and wasn't said when I signed up to them. I just know that I was rather stressed at the time, wanted to have little or no input, and not owe anything if the case was unsuccessful. After discussing things with them, I agreed to their terms. I do remember however, that they never told me how much of the award of a successful claim they would take as their fees. As I remember it wasn't until I had signed (if I indeed did) that reading through the small print that they would take an improportionately large % of the winnings. I remember thinking that i should have checked that first, and gone with one of those "and no money taken from the money you are awarded, our fees are claimed from the other side".

 

Apparently signed something to say that if i did not co-operate with them then I may be liable for costs. As far as I was concerned they had broken their side of the contract before me, ie. not doing their job, before I may have had.

 

thanks guys for reading through all this and taking the time to reply

Edited by salviablue

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I am no expert but if you have not written to them stating you are withdrawing, then I would have thought that there is no case to answer. You could probably in effect argue that you were of the opinion that they were still handling the case for you and you were awaiting there next move.

 

The fact that they expect you to do the leg work for them would not be grounds for them assuming that yuo have withdrawn either.

 

As for 'co-operating' with them, have they stated in the contract exactly what this means? They could argue it is a whole multitude of things if not defined.

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Thanks for the prompt replies.

i don't know what happened about the double post thread thing, after I posted this thread i got a mail telling me it had been removed and un-approved. I changed a detail, reposted, and was waiting for approval. Then I check in on here today and there was like 5 messages telling me my post was re-approved.

 

The accident happened 2005, and I took up the case with the solicitors a few weeks later I think.

 

I cant remember what i signed, tbh. It was during quite a bad point in my life.

 

I did not inform the solicitors that I had "given up" on them and the case. Some of the last contact I had with an actual case handler, they didn't really paint a good picture of the possibilities of success. Contact seemed to mutually fizzle out, they did make more attempts at contacting me than I them, but I did not ignore them until they where implying that unless i took photos and contacted this witness, then the case would collapse/fail.

 

I have done some minimal research on this firm recently, and they actually seem to be one of the ok solicitor firms. I can't find any obvious "dirt" on them, or even previous accounts of fumbled claims. So I can't really understand how things have got to how they have. Although it is totally typical of my luck to end up getting sued for an accident not my fault, then ending up out of pocket on the counter claim!

 

Surely its just a case of did the accident occur? yes, see police and witness reports.

Whos fault was it? See police report.

Is there a claim for injury/damages? See personal statement, hosp/docs records, supporting evidence.

Case closed, damages awarded.

Total time circa 3 - 6 months.

 

 

 

In the reply from the set aside, about which the judge wishes to hear evidence, court date in march, there was included a list of dates when the firm ha contacted me, along with corresponding notes to each contact attempt. Nearly all of those dates have notes stating that there was no reply/contact, messages left of which they had no reply. They are stating that I did not co-operate with them because they could not contact me and i did not reply to messages. Yet on this list they do not state the times I did contact them.

 

I wanted to SAR them for this list and for them to include also a full break down of their perceived fees. Except that I have now only 16 days to prepare my defence (I returned the acknowledgement of service, ticking the I intend to defend the full claim box, also asked to have the case transferred to my local court) and they only have to respond to the SAR with in 40 days. Although I was reading somewhere that I could use some procedural ruling to get them to release all their info on me before the case hearing/to prepare the defence...CPR or something?

 

I would rather be able to quash these claims through "technicallity", prefereably before getting in court, than arguing my why's and when's, especially since it seems they have "evidence" (they have records suiting them) and I don't. Also I have no ideahow I contacted them, I have had several phone no.s during and since the ordeal, sometimes mobile only, unregistered pay as you go...

Also I have had no experience of the law and courts ever going in my favour, rightfully so or not. Infact, quite the opposite, the system has failed me over and over.

 

Also I suffer from anxiety, and this has recently made it a whole lot worse, that and some other totally unrelated matters, and i fear standing in court, having to defend myself against trained proffessional liars, will just either cloud my mind so I can't think straight, or just emotionally breaking down, either becoming a molten jibbering wreck, or a ranting and raving freak, either way not currying me favour.

 

Another thing that worries me is that since returning the disputed claims for bankruptcy, I have remembered more things regarding the case that i did not include on the form. And then there are points that i am not entirely sure of, like I have a memory of speaking to the practice manager at some point, but according to them, I never spoke to him? Also I no nothing of times, dates, names etc.

I don't even have the contract. Or know what I signed, or even if I signed (must have because i remember having the contract at some point).

 

There is no breakdown for the bill, its just listed as bill of costs for services rendered, court fees and interest.

 

I dont even remember with whom I was insured, I have an inkling, but I am not entirely sure. I remembered leaving them though because they would not defend against the damages the guy-whos-fault-the-accident-was sued me for.

 

the problem with complaining to the sra is that i can't honestly remember exactly what was and wasn't said when I signed up to them. I just know that I was rather stressed at the time, wanted to have little or no input, and not owe anything if the case was unsuccessful. After discussing things with them, I agreed to their terms. I do remember however, that they never told me how much of the award of a successful claim they would take as their fees. As I remember it wasn't until I had signed (if I indeed did) that reading through the small print that they would take an improportionately large % of the winnings. I remember thinking that i should have checked that first, and gone with one of those "and no money taken from the money you are awarded, our fees are claimed from the other side".

 

Apparently signed something to say that if i did not co-operate with them then I may be liable for costs. As far as I was concerned they had broken their side of the contract before me, ie. not doing their job, before I may have had.

 

thanks guys for reading through all this and taking the time to reply

 

 

The forgoing is all very interesting but for now you need to answer the really IMPORTANT questions, was is the SD's date & what was your response did you do anything? ........ have you contested it with the COURT?

 

Note anyone can print a SD notice off the internet & send it to anyone they choose that doesn't mean they really do intend to go through with it

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I handed in to the court (and got sworn in) the SD, with a day to spare, stating that the case waas taken on "no win, no fee" and since there was no win, there is no fee.

I very briefly outlined the above, the reasons for my disputing the reasons for the SD.

I filled in/applied for set aside. Disputing the claim

 

The solicitors replied to the application for set aside stating they they are not of the opinion of me and that I had signed a declaration of co-operation adn that they had to close the account, with bill of costs outstandning, due to lack of contact from me.

They also supplied a list of dates of attempted contact, nrly none of which mentioned any actual contact with me.

 

This isn't exact wording but you should get the jist.

 

And now you mention it, I can't remember where i put the receipt of handing in the SD reply, so i can't remember the date, but I did reply just in time.

 

Also I wrote them a letter contesting their claims, and asking them to withdraw their draconian measures in persuing this perceived bill of costs.

 

They replied stating that as they are sure that I am aware, the SD is the first step in bankruptcy proceedings. - pretty much stating their intent, or a threat of it.

Edited by salviablue

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The 'no win, no fee' is condiitional - so hopefully they provided their T&C conditions as part of their taking on the case. Assuming the fees are for their work, and not the other party's claim/costs' - then the firm may have laid off their costs on your case to an insurer, who requires ther case at least reaches court. If it does not, then they don't pay out.

 

This is none of your concern, however - but you need to find out what you agreet to at the time you instructed them.

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1/Are you saying you received their demand completely out of the blue?

2/Have you at anytime received a 'bill of costs' (detailed invoice)

3/Did you receive & SIGN a client care letter at the outset and did it show their hourly rate?

4/When they did contact you (as you admit they did) did you cooperate?

5/For example when they asked you to take photos did you just ignore them or did you actually tell them you wouldn't or couldn't?

Edited by JonCris

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I did get a bill of costs 2 yrs ago and that was 2yrs after I initially instructed them at which i phoned them to tell them that i considered that since they are asking me for money they must have won the case, so where is my award? If the case didn't win why are they invoicing me? I think it was a secretary I spoke to. No reply.

Really con't know about the client care letter, don't think so, thats why I need them to reply to the SAR whatsit, see what I did sign, or what they have that I signed.

I told them i would take the photos, and did, but my photographic device was stolen before i got to transfer to them the pics. Then i told them i couldn't take the photos.

Edited by salviablue

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I told them i would take the photos, and did, but my photographic device was stolen before i got to transfer to them the pics. Then i told them i couldn't take the photos.

 

So it was unfortunate matters beyond your control and you have informed them as such, not that you would not co-operate.

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Was your claim successful & if so who concluded it for you??

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Dont know if the claim was successful. I think they closed the case. I dont even really know how far they got.

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Your the client & if you didn't continue with your instruction then they would have no choice but to close the case & seek to recover their now unrecoverable costs from you ........ however if you think you have a claim for negligence against them you had better go ahead & contact the SRA

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In your own words, you gave up and moved on but you did not tell them you were abandoning your claim.

 

You moved house, apparently without telling them.

 

You failed to sumbit photos, that you originally agree to do. You cannot expect them to take photos just because your camera was stolen.

 

And you cannot expect them to be out of pocket just because you decided i was a 'bad experience' and not tell them!

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All CFA's are supported by insurance either BTE or ATE to cover any adverse costs that may be awarded against you & subject to the following your not liable for your own solicitors costs.......... however if you fail to comply with your lawyers reasonable requests, taking photos etc,.......or refuse to accept their advice, insist on going forward when they advise against it ....... or just cease communication then you DO become liable for their costs

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Nevertheless it's important to know if you signed a client care letter AND CFA at the outset if not they are guilty of misconduct & you can argue no contract

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They looked at the case and took it on, No win, no fee, therefore, if the claim fails, they don't get paid - so in effect they thought the case would win, and provide at least £6K (even at 50% fee, which i dont think their actual stated fee was far off, that would cover the costs they are claiming) award.

On this presumption, I fail to see how, if I don't provide photos and contact with the witness (which is what I would pay them for - on a win), where I had cooperated on, but failed to provide a result, due to reasons beyond my control, can be used in any argument towards my not co-operating. Especially when there becomes strong inference towards a grim view of the case's success by them, if I dont provide photos/witness contact.

Since, I have wondered whether perhaps they where so insistent I do it, because it might have been some important part in the case, but what this was they did not reveal to me. For the most part it just seemed as though they where being lazy and/or stretching their fees. It was never explained to me exactly what they where doing, why they wanted me to take photos etc, and generally what was going on - which I would have expected if they wanted such a level of involvement from me, but that level of involvement was never explained to me either.

 

As to exactly what I signed -?, thats why I need to SAR them, but they are not obliged to reply for 40 days, well after when my defence has to be in by (about 7 days now), so I don't see how I can win. I can't assert I did not sign something, if infact I did.

 

"And you cannot expect them to be out of pocket just because you decided i(t) was a 'bad experience' and not tell them!"

 

If no photograph (which if I cant provide, they should) and lack of contact with the witness (how can that be my fault?) would equal a possible failed claim, then they would be out of pocket any way.

 

Either way, especially considering their high fee, all I should have had to have done is that which they physically/legally cannot and that by which I am legally obliged. In my mind, anything else would constitute a breach of their obligation to their client.

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I can't assert I did not sign something, if infact I did.

 

Logic suggests they will have a signed copy of some agreement if they are prepared to go to court over this. Surely the first thing they'll need for their case is proof that they did 'sign you up'.

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This is a two-way street. If they plan to rely on the terms of their agreement (and use it in court) they need to make it available to bot the court AND YOU! So you'll see what they are relying on.

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