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middenmess

Halifax State That Card Application Is A Full Credit Agreement

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Apologies for starting a new thread but felt that this might be worthy of discussion rather than being buried at the bottom of one of my old Halifax threads.

 

After several phone calls requesting a response to my letter of 6 weeks ago I received a reply today.

 

I had made several points in that letter most of which the writer fudges around without answering directly or ignores as suits him.

 

The biggest point I made was that they terminated the account midway through the 14 day period allowed for the account to be rectified.

 

This is glossed over and/or ignored.... 'Charges continue to accrue--Pay up'

 

Of more general interest to others might be..

 

''Credit card applications include a copy of the terms and conditions and specify your rights under the agreement you are signing;as such the document constitutes a full credit agreement.'

 

Also included in the letter is the statement..

 

''Under the Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 we are not legally obliged to provide you with the signed credit agreement.We only have to provide you with the signed credit agreement when we seek to legally enforce the debt or take legal action against you''

 

It continues...

''All terms included on your credit agreement were an abbreviated version of the historic terms and conditions,and you were advised when opening the account to read these before signing the credit agreement as you were agreeing to be bound by those terms''

 

So there we have it,according to Halifax my 1989 application form is my full credit agreement.

It allegedly 'includes a copy of the terms and conditions and specifies my rights.

All my terms included on this agreement were an abbreviated version of the historic terms and conditions--??????????

 

 

Whilst the default and termination cock up is all I'm really interested in, do I therefore understand that the original of the one sided application form is the signed credit agreement that they would produce and rely on in court ?

 

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hi,

 

An application form can be an agreement so long as it contains KEY terms within that document:

APR

Credit limit or a statement saying one will be set

Repayment terms

 

Yours does contain those elements so I would say it's a good un but let others have a look.

 

I hope you have kept the default letter and the termination letter as they are gold dust.

 

Personally I would let it go to a DCA and then tell the DCA about the unlawful rescission purely for the pleasure of knowing a DCA has bought a lame duck :)


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I hope you have kept the default letter and the termination letter as they are gold dust.
They have pride of place in my file:D

 

Personally I would let it go to a DCA and then tell the DCA about the unlawful rescission purely for the pleasure of knowing a DCA has bought a lame duck :-)
Something to look forward to;)

 

I'm still trying to translate this bit though..

 

''All terms included on your credit agreement were an abbreviated version of the historic terms and conditions,and you were advised when opening the account to read these before signing the credit agreement as you were agreeing to be bound by those terms''

 

How can you have historic terms for something you'd never had before?

 

How could I have been advised to read them if I hadn't had them before and if they were an abbreviated version then a signature would/might only bind you to that abbreviated part only?

 

They appear to be saying that on the back of the application form were two lots of T & C's--the full version and the abbreviated version.That's an awful lot to cram onto to back of an A4 sheet!

Edited by middenmess
typo

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As they like to confuse us at every opportunity, I think what they are trying to say is that the short terms were on the back of the agreement and then they sent the full terms with the card was sent and as you had the right to cancel, if you didn't agree with the full terms, you could do so but how many of us actually read the terms when we got them.

Just my take on it :|


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They have pride of place in my file:D

 

Something to look forward to;)

 

I'm still trying to translate this bit though..

 

 

''All terms included on your credit agreement were an abbreviated version of the historic terms and conditions,and you were advised when opening the account to read these before signing the credit agreement as you were agreeing to be bound by those terms''

 

Hi there middenmess,

 

Sorry to jump in.

I have noted from your application form that, under the Additional Card holder - point 10, it does say that " ...Conditions ..... as set out on the reverse on this agreement"????:confused:

Was it really??!! I can not see any link to that reverse of the Application at all.....

Sorry but someone with more exp. in these will hop in soon-ish...

 

Good luck,

DD:cool:

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As they like to confuse us at every opportunity, I think what they are trying to say is that the short terms were on the back of the agreement and then they sent the full terms with the card was sent and as you had the right to cancel, if you didn't agree with the full terms, you could do so but how many of us actually read the terms when we got them.

Just my take on it :|

 

Hi silverfox

 

And confuse they do! If your take on it is correct they are saying that the short terms were on the back and this is a full credit agreement,then you would be signing up only to those terms-any other terms sent later would need another signature to accept---it really is hard to translate gobblygook!!

 

I'm very tempted to send them the letter that diddydickey has posted at #24 on this thread..

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/237479-sb100-halifax-credit-card-2.html#post2646926

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Hi London

 

Sorry to jump in.

 

Everyone is welcome,the more the better when it comes to trying to help each other out:)

 

You're quite right-no link and the back is blank.

 

The likelihood of ever seeing the back of the original Application/Agreement is slightly less than non existent.

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Hi there middenmess,

 

You're quite right-no link and the back is blank.

 

Same as mine (with bits and bobs less)but mine was done in 97.

 

The likelihood of ever seeing the back of the original Application/Agreement is slightly less than non existent

 

Why I am not surprised??

 

Since I have sent Halifax the letters "Acc in Dispute", LBA, etc, they have been selling my acc to 3 DCA's but I must say that they were not in the same order as Lexis and others....which mean they are very disorganised.

Nothing surprises me anymore with them...but I am going to ignore them from now on until they will try to force it through the court.

I do know for fact that I have never signed any agreement with them in this matter and they have only send me under the SAR a reconstructed version with a wrong address on, no signature plus they have failed to supply a DN after my second letter of pointing out that I need everything not only few things.

Never had any reply from them which means that they have messed it up with all the docs. requested. Anyway the DN is a faulty one which I have never mentioned to them..:p

 

To cut it short I am waiting for their mistake to take me to court, then I shall give then the boots for good...:smile::smile::smile:

 

Good luck and I am sure that from what I have seen, you will be the one to kick them b4 me.:D

 

DD:cool:

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It looks as though the application form is complient, however they would need the original in court. Only the 3 prescribed terms need to be within the signature document, the others can be referred to in another document.

 

Are you sure that the DN is faulty and that the Termination letter is just that.

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It looks as though the application form is complient, however they would need the original in court. Only the 3 prescribed terms need to be within the signature document, the others can be referred to in another document.

 

Are you sure that the DN is faulty and that the Termination letter is just that.

 

Hi Vint-thanks for looking in.

 

DN has date to rectify as ''before 16th Oct''

 

Letter dated as 9th Oct ''we have terminated your credit agreement''

 

Paper Statement 16th Nov [with late charge fee] received on 20th Nov.-please pay arrears by 11th Dec.

 

Account still live on line and this month they have charged me £21.85 ''letter fee''--this is the amount that they told me they would charge for the visit of 'Power to connect'

 

I wasn't going to write to them again but I guess a rather abrupt letter detailing their shortcomings is in order for Monday morning!

 

There are a few other threads on CAG where Halifax have terminated before the expiry of the period to rectify.

Edited by middenmess
missing words

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Oops--meant to add that they have cancelled my PPI!!

 

and the online account tells me that I've got nearly £1k of available credit available still!

Edited by middenmess
typos

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Forgot to add that I've also had several demands from Albion for full outstanding balance!!

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