Accused of shoplifting and abused

[MrKringle]

First I will state I am NOT a shoplifter and never have been.Anyone who assumes I am or have or that I willingly abetted anyone doing such will not be responded too. I have seen to much trolling on the net and refuse to respond to it.

 

I am 50 years old and I suffer with severe asthma, I also have a undiagnosed heart problem whgich in the main is because I am such a heavy smoker and it is a genetic thing in the ales in my family, we all drop around the 55 year mark from heart attacks, I have been prescribed steroids by my doctor in the past for infections that have given my doctor concerns in that area. The reason for this information is relevant as I hope you will see shortly.

 

I was in Tescos stores newbury the other day with a female partner, I hate shopping and it is my norm not to trawl around the store with her but to wander off and let her do it then catch up at the tills, and usually because of past embarasment at her having to put items back due to insufficient funds I sneak out to have a cigarette.

 

on this occasion however after a time wandering on my own I was informed that one of our children ( aspergers) had kicked of at her and she was very upset and telling me she wanted to leave the shop, I calmed her down and said I would stay with her so it did not occur again.

 

I saw nothing of my partner secrete anything.

 

After we left the tills and went to exit the shop a large number of staff and I do mean a large number suddenly swooped on us both and told me they wanted us to go back in the shop as they believed we had stolen items on us. I was genuinly in the belief that they were off their heads and being stupid and I was not about to be treated like some thief and abused, nor was I about to publicly humiliated over nothing, many of the villages here shop at this store and many at that time of the day. Believing I was correct and that we had done nothing wrong I refused to go back in the shop and carried on walking out telling my partner to come on and not to take any notice of them.

 

At this point a number of large store staff grabbed me and refused to let me go, I told them to let go of me as I had done nothing wrong and at this point I was getting very angry, I was then informed by one of them that I was under arrest and thrown to the ground and kneed in the side by him, I was pinned to the floor with one member of staff holding me by each arm and refusing to let me stand up, at that point I found out my partner then to my amazement had taken a game from the shop and I had not known it, the member of staff who I believe to be a manager then searched my pockets as I was trying to find my salbutemol inhalor and he was ranting about me being a thief and having stolen property in my pockets or such, and he took an item of my property from my pocket, namely a small circular magnet inside a steel case like a speaker magnet I had found and thought was a good item for my camera repairs ( I thought it would be handy for keeping small screws etc in one place when disassembling ).

I then started to have a serious asthma attack, I couldn't breathe and my chest was hurting as I was having sharp pains around it, someone called an ambulance, I repeatedly informed the staff I needed my inhalor which was in my pocket. One member of the staff who had my left arm was saying he knew how that felt as he had asthma and was trying as far as I could understand to tell me he would get it for me, it was in the same pocket the circular magnet was in, however the other person refused to let me have ot or to put my hands in my pockets to get it out, my partner was stood screaming at them that I had heart problems and that I needed my inhalor and was trying to get to me to get it out. The member of staff I think was a manager refused to let her help me and kept refusing to let the other staff get it for me, my partner who had also been thrown on the floor and kicked and hit by a male member of staff in front of our 2 small children managed to push him away and got to my pockets and found my inhalor, by this time I was desperate for breath and having a minor fit, the manager was telling me that I was a thief and a liar and he was not believing that I needed or had an inhalor, her was quitre loud and vocal about that fact in front of members of the public.

 

I eventualy got to stand up when i had used my inhalor and a doctor appeared and the staff were forced to let me up.

 

we were both marched through the shop and then placed in a back room whereupon the police turned up and took us to Newbury police station and we were lodged in cells for over 6 hours being released on bail untill 29th january.

 

Whilst in custody my partner was interviewed and shown CCTV footage of what she had done, and she admitted she had taken the game, but that I knew nothing of this and she had done it because we had no money in debt and on benefits and the kids had next to nothing for xmas. I saw what she had done at that point and why, and whilst I did not agree with it I understood and felt ashamed she had been pushed to that point.

 

I was also interviewed by the police and was informed that my wife had admitted this matter and that the store had been following her with CCTV cameras throughout and the police told me that someone had seen her with the box, and they had followeed her with cameras or such that they had zoomed in to the trolley seen the box with game then the box empty and that was when they decided to follow her in person or such, I was also told that whilst they had seen her do it they had not seen me interact in this or have any knowledge or otherwise in the matter.

 

In short they could not say I had had anything to do with what happened other than the fact I was with her shopping.

 

I will state right now that you can take this post at face value, I fully intend to proescute Tescos Newbury for what they did too me, or I perceive they illegaly and wrongly did to me. From what thepolice tell me it is as this.

 

They have seen my partner do something but the cameras and staff are aware I have done nothing, they then grab me accuse me of stealing and throw me on the floor, they refuse me my medication when having an asthma attack and verbally and physically abuse me. They commit an unlawfull arrest because from my understanding even if they are right in the fact that they can physically detain me they did not read me my rights as he told me he was arresting me, and in short they had NO reason to stop or detain me as I had done nothing and they knew this from their own footage and surveillance of us. I intend to sue them individually and as a store for not only the false imprisonment and any criminal acts they have done, ie the kneeing me in the chest when on the ground and the violent twisting of my arm above and behind my head whilst on the floor but also for breaching my human and or civil rights in that they denied me my inhalor when it was plain I needed it and any other matters I can.

 

The manager also tried to imply that I had the magnet for unlocking some security boxes or such which was plain stupid, again they have footage of our complete journey through the store and I plainly never used it for any nefarious purpose or even took it out of my pocket, I was also under the beleif that those cases were electronicly opeed by a gizmo at the end of the tills.

 

I would appreciate any help,ideas or advice you can give me in proceeding with just that, and how to get copies of all CCTV footage and statements etc given by their staff.

 

I rarely get online as I do not have a connection at home so if you think I have dissapeared I have not.

[dx100uk]

urm.......

 

Neodymium magents are a fave tool ..

 

any previous .....

 

dx

[MrKringle]

Pointless question I think. the point is I was observed to have NO action in any part of the offence. and no i dont, I may be alone here or weird in the way life has become these days but even if I had, I fail to see how that would make me culpable or guilty of any offense, like I say i was watched and seen to have no part in the matter. I am sorry if you think I am being rude, I am not. My point may be being missed, I was innocent, seen to be innocent, and yet treated like I was guilty whilst they knew I was not. I look at it as if they had just picked any member of public out, seen them do no wrong then just decided to accuse them and abuse them because they were with someone who had. What would you do or feel if I decided to do this too you just because I thought someone you were with had pinched something in a shop and you were with them even though I knew and therefore could prove you had taken no part in it. Would you think it fair or right, would you expect to be treated any less an innocent person. Of course not. I think my other point is that you dont treat people you know and have seen to do no wrong like thieves, regardless who their friends or partners are and do. two wrongs dont make a right, and just because a friend or relative may be a thief doesn't make you one.

[dx100uk]

it was puzzling me why you mentioned the magent, if it has no relevence & they did not know it was there then why such a big issue of not being allowed to go in your pockets?

 

yes i know all the tricks in the book and have had 'contact' with instore 'security' since well before CCTV and alike.

 

if you feel there is a case then what has happened i feel too is rather over the top and i wish you well in your impending legal processes, however, i also suspect there is more background to this unfortunate incident then what you are p'haps letting on.

 

no store, let alone tesco's whom are rather 'soft' concerning such matters, would go to such extremes without good reason.

 

have a happy xmas.

 

unsubbing.

 

dx

[MARTIN3030]

Welcome to the site

 

"First I will state I am NOT a shoplifter and never have been.Anyone who assumes I am or have or that I willingly abetted anyone doing such will not be responded too. I have seen to much trolling on the net and refuse to respond to it."

 

 

Unfortunately by your own words you know that trolls are everywhere and CAG is no different.

We do however take action where its needed.

You should find lots of support,advice and guidance here and maybe some questions that are not meant to incriminate or judge,but asked in order to get more understanding.

[loopinlouie]

You fair enough state the magnet is perfectly innocent, but it is an unfortunate item to have on you when your partner has done what she did.

 

Tesco set off the alarms to me after spending nearly 200.00 and said they saw me take clothes and not pay for them, when in fact I had the receipts and was aware of the man following me, I suffer with paranoia quite badly,they set the alarms of deliberately I felt, but they checked everything, it tallied and I got a brief apology, inconvinienced infered I had done something and they still stopped me on that, but I did stop to prove I had done nothing, even though I knew I had done nothing. Saves stress.

 

It would have been better rather than try to leave the store to go with them in the first place. You could ask for the tapes to show how you were handled and demand an apology, but I dont think apart from that you could do anything.

 

The magnet is an odd thing to carry whilst shopping and they could infer you were equipped to do something, even though it was your partner and nowt to do with you.

 

But demand that apology for them not getting your inhalor, good luck. I am not judging you, just thinking what others would think if I was in same situation, maybe being paranoid for me is not such a bad thing, I pre empt everything, but exhausting.

[loopinlouie]

ps. Let me suggest something, when next online go onto freecycle site, you can find one nearest to you and they link people together who dont want items. You could find loads of free, good quality toys and gifts for your children. I know you said you dont have much use of internet, but give it ago via a friend maybe. Ps2's, phones, furniture, video games etc are given away. You just need to offer the first item and it could be as little as unwanted magazine or paperback and off you go. Give it a go and get some freebies for your kids, you might be suprised:)The kiddies wouldnt need to know, merry xmas.

[Tom87]

As for your wife: economic situation = irrelevant. It is theft. Fact.

 

As for you. I have a lot of sympathy and would be just as furious as you if that had happened to me.

 

I would push the police to charge them with false imprisonment and assault. If anything terrible had happened vis-a-vis your inhaler the individuals would be up for manslaughter.

 

Unfortunately I have to say your wife will be punished for what she did. The store employees, knowing your wife had stolen something, were within their rights to challenge her. However, if they knew that you knew nothing whatsoever of her thieving, they had no right whatsoever to so much as touch you, let alone prevent you from gaining access to one of your own possessions which could save your life. I hope the **** go down for this.

 

If I were you I would make a big fuss and tell all the local newpapers in your area, and hassle the police to charge them with false imprisonment and assault.

[postggj]

can this be cleared up, my next question

 

the store detectives in effect are making a citizens arrest

 

can they in law, use this sort of force to detain you.

 

its assault

 

i thought also, like pcso, you can only be detained for 30 minutes while a coppers arrives.

 

if none after 30 min, you can leave

 

any chance of confirmation on what they can and cant do

[MARTIN3030]

Good points and valid.

Will ask site team for comment.

[natalie]

I'm sorry, maybe I am naive, but what is the relevance of the magnet?

[MARTIN3030]

"The manager also tried to imply that I had the magnet for unlocking some security boxes or such which was plain stupid, again they have footage of our complete journey through the store and I plainly never used it for any nefarious purpose or even took it out of my pocket, I was also under the beleif that those cases were electronicly opeed by a gizmo at the end of the tills."

 

It was you who made people here aware of it-can you shed any light on what type of magnet it was and why you had it ?

The Manager could only raise these concerns if he had some reasons to do so-I am not advocating those concerns were reasons for what followed I am just trying to get a better jist of where the concerns originated ?

[loopinlouie]

The strong magnets attached to items, needs the reverse magnet to unlock them. Like when the release them in store, shoplifters can be known to carry such devices to stop tags etc setting off the alarms. Like I heared recently a case where shopper had a magnet lined bag and was shoving dvds in it and the alarm was not going off, person was caught.

 

Thats why I said considering what gents partner did, it was an unfortunate item to be carrying even though it was not being used for that purpose.

 

If it is an issue raised by store he could prove that it is not capable of such a task and still complain.

Edited December 13, 2009 by loopinlouie

[natalie]

Ah okay I didnt know that.

[MARTIN3030]

Its not for the person to prove that their posession of the magnet was unjust-it would be for the supermarket (or prosecution) to prove that it was part of or an aid for theft.

I was just wondering why the magnet was mentioned and for what reasons.

Specifically why it was taken into the supermarket ?

[2ltr16valve]

urm.......

 

Neodymium magents are a fave tool ..

 

any previous .....

 

dx

 

Indeed they are. I used to work for Tesco security shortly after leaving forces. You normally find a speaker magnet with a foil lined bag !

 

 

can this be cleared up, my next question

 

the store detectives in effect are making a citizens arrest

 

can they in law, use this sort of force to detain you.

 

its assault

 

i thought also, like pcso, you can only be detained for 30 minutes while a coppers arrives.

 

if none after 30 min, you can leave

 

any chance of confirmation on what they can and cant do

 

Its a grey area tbh, Security can "use such force as reasonably necessary to prevent injury to yourself or others" (or something like that).

 

IF the OP was showing agressive signs, e.g. raising his voice and waiving his hands around then yes they were within the law to restrain him and place him under "Citizens" arrest... .Security have not more powers than a civilian. What they might of said is "your nicked"... not quite the same thing.

 

"The manager also tried to imply that I had the magnet for unlocking some security boxes or such which was plain stupid, again they have footage of our complete journey through the store and I plainly never used it for any nefarious purpose or even took it out of my pocket, I was also under the beleif that those cases were electronicly opeed by a gizmo at the end of the tills."

 

It was you who made people here aware of it-can you shed any light on what type of magnet it was and why you had it ?

The Manager could only raise these concerns if he had some reasons to do so-I am not advocating those concerns were reasons for what followed I am just trying to get a better jist of where the concerns originated ?

 

Agree Martin, we were very aware of these types of "tools" when I was working there... and they have been around for a long time. Can be used normally for clothing tags, electrical items with wire tag alarms etc.

 

As for the comments from other about them "setting the alarms off" ... just is not possible, we never had any way to set the barrier off other than a tag.... bit obvious throwing a big plastic tag through the barrier....

ALTHOUGH, some items people carry do set them off as they act the same as a tag

 

Tesco security "SHOULD" never stop a person unless they see these things.

1) Selection

2) Concealment

3) Failure to pay

4) Pass last point of payment (normally last till or tobacco counter)

5) Leave store.

 

This was the absolute rule when I was there a few years ago now, break them you would get final warning... as have to deal with any action taken by the person concerned.

 

Hope this helps.

[loopinlouie]

I used to work for dept store for short time and was being trained to reduce stock prices in warehouse for sales rails. I found the most dishonest people worked in there, they would stomp on clothes and put in certain places for friends to arrive at certain time and do the same regarding removing tags. I left as I didnt know wether it was a managment test to see if I would do it, which I didnt and narked the others, but did learn a lot about how theft occured. You would find dumped tags under the display shelves all over the place at one point.

 

Left as couldnt cope with work colleagues. I got my revenge though as I walked straight into another job and they obviously asked why leave so quickly and I told them, got the job. Then I rang the manager of the store to tell them what a load of dishonest shi** he had in the warehouse. Bear in mind my dad was a policeman and of course I was extrememly paranoid.

Edited December 13, 2009 by loopinlouie

[loopinlouie]

I always had a strong belief the security guards at store could set the alarms off at will, maybe if not the case I should calm down. But to be fair at the tesco I go to, the traffic in and out of doors is huge, could be anyone setting it off. In another branch you here them going off and no one goes after to check the problem, seems pointless,

Edited December 13, 2009 by loopinlouie
part not relevant

[JonCris]

it was puzzling me why you mentioned the magent, if it has no relevence & they did not know it was there then why such a big issue of not being allowed to go in your pockets?

 

yes i know all the tricks in the book and have had 'contact' with instore 'security' since well before CCTV and alike.

 

if you feel there is a case then what has happened i feel too is rather over the top and i wish you well in your impending legal processes, however, i also suspect there is more background to this unfortunate incident then what you are p'haps letting on.

 

no store, let alone tesco's whom are rather 'soft' concerning such matters, would go to such extremes without good reason.

 

have a happy xmas.

 

unsubbing.

 

dx

 

Tescos DO go to such lengths I'm afraid.

[JonCris]

Mr Kringle I doubt your problems will end here. Even if you do sue Tesco a firm called RLP (Retail Loss Prevention) will no doubt contact you demanding money

 

Please research them on this site then contact me via PM

[postggj]

can this be cleared up, my next question

 

the store detectives in effect are making a citizens arrest

 

can they in law, use this sort of force to detain you.

 

its assault

 

i thought also, like pcso, you can only be detained for 30 minutes while a coppers arrives.

 

if none after 30 min, you can leave

 

any chance of confirmation on what they can and cant do

 

 

 

ANY TAKERS ON MY QUESTIONS

[natalie]

I cant see that the manner in which they detained you can be seen as anything other than assault, regardless of whether you were guilty of shoplifiting or not. So I would definitely seek legal advice on this.

 

I would have thought that Tescos would have to prove you intended to use the magnet in order to steal.

 

Are they prosecuting your partner? If so, I think you will probably find they will trade off if you do manage to bring proceedings against them, we'll drop charges against your partner if you drop legal proceedings against us.

[loopinlouie]

I wouldnt have thought they would drop the charges on a confirmed case of theft. To be honest it could have all been prevented if customer stopped when challenged. However the store cameras would hold the evidence of what happened and both sides can ask for copies. If they show unreasonable force then there is a case. But surely some of the anger should be aimed at his partner for putting him in the predicament.

[loopinlouie]

Mr kringle. You said cameras saw box with game in it and them box with game not there. Do you mean disc itself was put in pocket or game in game box. If latter, something was used to take game from security box and thats why they could have been concerned about the magnet.

[JonCris]

I wouldnt have thought they would drop the charges on a confirmed case of theft. To be honest it could have all been prevented if customer stopped when challenged. However the store cameras would hold the evidence of what happened and both sides can ask for copies. If they show unreasonable force then there is a case. But surely some of the anger should be aimed at his partner for putting him in the predicament.

 

Sorry but why should we direct any anger at the OP's partner. For a start they aren't asking for advice & second even they were most of us still would NOT judge them, they want help not moralizing.

 

"Do not judge lest you be judged" or some such thing