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    • 4 th time we've merged your threads  for complete history of your story please keeps to one thread
    • @dx100uk @ anyone else interested in Fighting HSBC UK  Staff/department non compliance and incompetence/interference in between HSBC UK and customers.   I wanted to know what you guys had to say about the reply i got from HSBC UK today.    Recap. I originally turned to HSBC UK to be reunited with Money i saved in accounts that where frozen and made dormant during the year 1995.   HSBC UK Teams tell me that HSBC UK only allows them to have access to account records dated back 6 years. there for they do not have the records, can not locate the records i requested for in my SAR. there for HSBC UK teams Ignored my SAR application for records of accounts made frozen and dormant during the year 1995. HSBC then claim if the accounts where closed they will no longer hold records of these accounts and tell that to the ICO. I again explained to HSBC UK and the ICO the records of accounts where left frozen and dormant.   HSBC UK teams continue to tell me over the phone that The records i requested for in my SAR, will not be located or do not exist because HSBC only allows them to have access to records of accounts dated back 6 years.    I returned to HSBC highlighting there is no such provision in the Data Protection Act.   HSBC UK teams today totally ignored my complaint again and confirmed with me they are classing my complaint as wanting to locate accounts that where closed.   Let me know what you think about the  HSBC UK teams response to my last complaint. Is there any other letters i can send them to confirm thay are not correct about what they have done.    The HSBC UK letter starts of by:You've been unable to recover funds you held in HSBC UK Accounts that were closed in 1994 to 1995, and to obtain the account details for the accounts concerned. You've been advised that we only retain records for up to 6 years, but you've been unable to locate any provision for this within the Data Protection Act (DPA). You require a Certificate of Destruction from HSBC UK to evidence the destruction of the data concerned. You feel your Subject Access Request (SAR) has been ignored by HSBC UK.   HSBC UK Teams now go on to explain: In respect of you being advised we only retain records for up to 6 years, but having been unable to locate any  provision for this within the Data Protection Act (DPA), I can confirm that under the DPA, we are obliged to only keep records for as long as we deem necessary, in order to effectively manage our data. So, for most cases, this will be for no more than 6 years.   In regards to your request for a Certificate of Destruction from HSBC UK to evidence the destruction of the data concerned, I regret that this isn't something that we can provide, as we don't keep records of when individual customer data was destroyed. I'd also like to clarify that if the accounts concerned were closed after becoming dormant, that we would have sent you closing statements at the time.   Lastly, I'm sorry you feel we've ignored your SAR. I want to assure you that we'll always look to accommodate a request for a SAR as best as we can. However, if we're unable to locate the account details and information required, this will mean we're unable to fulfil the request, which has unfortunately been the case on this occasion.   How else do you think i can highlight to HSBC that the teams dealing with My complaint, and request to be reunited with my money is not going to departments that can deal with my demand for services.?  
    • Hi   I have to agree if you have paid off the debt owed to them via this meter and are up to date on your bills  I would look at changing supplier and as said asking new supplier to install a standard meter and look for the best deals for you.
    • I have severe anxiety and going to leave my job and have been invited to a meeting but dont wish to attend that is three hours away from where I am. Can I legally give the  permission to decide without my being there? I cannot handle going as I know I'm going to be fired anyway as on my final warning. I'm also giving in my notice this week too! This job is just too much for me now and I cannot work here any longer. It's no good for my health and sanity  I am sick to my stomach thinking about going and about to hand my notice in anyway    
    • Thankyou it’s because I’m awaiting the outcome and a friend said I will be turned down as I asked them a while back if I had ppi on the account and how much it was and they replied.  But they did only send me a short confirmation with the amount and that they trust that answers my enquiry. i just wanted to be prepared if they wouldn’t turn me down based on that. Thanks for your advice on that mate 
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Boss-man

Cabot - I really need help now!

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Hi Guys,

 

I really need some advice with my ongoing battles with cabot. I posted a thread a while back about them chasing me for an alleged credit card.

 

I sent them a CCA request and they provided an application form (copy attached) which did contain a signature, although its not possible to tell if its mine or not. I checked it against other docs with my signature on

from that time period and it looks nothing like it. If anything it looks more like my current signature - could they have borrowed it from somehwere? It also refers to supporting documents which they provided a copy of. These documents are just general terms and conditions, although it does state the interst rate and minimum payment of £5 or 2% of the balance. There is no credit limit mentioned. Also, the supporting documents have a space at the top which says agreement between the two parties - both are blank.

 

As part of the first response they also provided me with statements for someone elses account, crossing out the name and account number on the first one and writing mine by hand over it.

 

I wrote to them telling them that the CCA was invalid and the statements were fake.

 

I've now got a reply from them (copy attached) basically filled with lots of jargon but saying the agreement is enforceable.

 

I really need some advice on the validity of what they are saying and how to go from here.

 

Thanks in advance,

Bossman

Cabot.doc

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At least it's on hold.

 

If you are sure it's not your sig then obviously there is a major problem!

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It would be better if we could see what they actually sent. Altering documents for pecuniary gain ie the statements, is fraud and you can report that to the police and get a crime number for it. As for a reponse to Cabot, if you haven't already done so I would send them the Account in Dispute letter to their complaints department then ignore them thereafter. You don't need help -Cabot definitely do.

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Hi Pinky,

 

I have attached a copy of what Cabot have sent and are saying at the bottom of my original post. Its a word doc which includes Cabots letter and a copy of the supposed CCA they sent. The supporting documents with the CCA are very small print and wont scan. The docs supporting the CCA are just standard t&c's but contains interest rate and minimum payment as £5 or 2%, but doesnt detail credit limit or payment dates.

 

Although their letter says the account will currently remain on hold they have now started chasing me again.

 

I really need someone to advise whether what they say in the attached letter is true.

 

Thanks guys

Bossman

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Ah - I have found the application form. They are correct in their letter about what they need to send in a copy but unfortunately for them 1) your signature isn't clear 2) you have fake statements 3) the rest of the application form is illegible. To sum up they don't have a enforceable agreement - no surprises there with Cabot - and you can tell them to sling their hook.

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Cheers Pinky,

 

So am I right in thinking that even though they are saying the form I allegedly signed mentions further documents and the basic prescribed terms are not present on the form with my supposed signature on there that then makes it unenforceable.

 

What should I write back and tell them?

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Bossman

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The form may mention further documents but unless the prescribed terms - interest rate,repayment schedule and credit limit - are in the same section of the agreement as the signature box then they are up the duff. Also the fact that the statements are faked is not something they can have produced in court. I would send the Account in Dispute letter to their complaints department and then just ignore them.

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Err, and the inception Terms and Conditons?

 

Why have Cabrot not provided these?

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Crapbot haven't provided them because thye probably haven't got them.

 

IMO this is a favourite tactic of the Customer Assurance Team there... usualy culprits... bunch of handjob.gif

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cabots at the moment are trying to play hard ball, with all their 'customers' this is due to the fact that last financial year they made a 6m loss, this has hit them hard and they are trying every which way they can to get people to pay... i currently have an application form which they insist is enforceable

in the end i have told them to 'put up or shut up' but i think they are going to keep on and on.. they just will not at the moment take no for an answer

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£6m loss!

 

I'm glad to be part of that when they wasted £140 on court fees trying to get a CCJ, and when challenged, they didn't respond to my defence and case struck out.

 

I live really close to their offices and keep telling myself I should apply for a job there, just for a short while and would enclose notes to all customers to ignore their letters and seek CAG :D

 

Hmmm wonder if I, TLTS could bring Crapbot down.

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Thanks for the replies guys.

 

I get the feeling I'm going to get the same problem as you debt4get.

 

Another dispute letter going off to them today. Any advice as to what to put in it would be helpful - should I point out what Pinky said above, that as the main section and signature are not on the same document as and prescribed terms they can get lost?

 

Thanks again,

Bossman

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you can do, best to have a paper trail, at least that way you aint ignoring em!

even if it gets to court, which is doubtful if you challenge they generally dont respond and it gets struck out

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Cabot are great at thinking up ways to make you believe its enforcable when in fact it is not.

 

We have supporting documents...............

 

 

 

.......AND ??? what are they going to do with them ? Make a hat ?


Ash.

 

If you think I have helped you, please add to my reputation by clicking the star button to the left.

Thankyou.

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wow i am now in the 'pre litigation department

and i quote from crapbots latest missive

if we dont hear from you one of the following options will occur

a warrant of execution. this instructs bailiffs to remove items from your hom and sell them to repay your debt.

a charging order. a charge will be placed on your property which means if you sell your property the charge will have to be repaid from the proceeds.

an attachment of earninings. this is a method by which money will be deducted from your wages

an order to obtain information. you will have to attend court to be questioned under oath

an external debt collection agency or legal agency. calling on you

 

i am plumping for the last one seeing how crapbot are going to need a ccj and default on a ccj before we go anywhere near the others... i keep telling them put the bloody thing before a court... but still they continue to write this crap

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leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it

creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors'

lack of knowledge

from the oft document Debt collection guidance

Final guidance on unfair business practices

July 2003 (updated December 2006)

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Boss-man - careful with your wording. It won't matter anyway because it is Cabot but best to show them you know what you are talking about. The prescribed terms need to be in the same section of the agreement as the signature box. If one document consists of the application form, for example, the prescribed terms don't need to be on the same page but on a page that is clearly linked to he application form - it might just say "Page 2" on it with a date in the corner. I just thought I would clarify that if you are going to put that in your letter. Personally I would just send them an Account in Dispute letter to their complaints department then ignore them and let them waste their money writing endless letters for nothing.

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an external debt collection agency or legal agency. calling on you

 

Thats the one you will get.

 

A company called FIRE who will send some threat letters then a 'Make us an offer' letter.

 

FIRE is Cabot in disguise. They are nothing to be concerned about. Just continue to ignor.


Ash.

 

If you think I have helped you, please add to my reputation by clicking the star button to the left.

Thankyou.

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i recieved one of these stupid one of the following actions will occur letters from them two weeks ago , i just wrote in marker pen GO AHEAD THEN in big letters across it then sent it back to them , today i got a letter saying DO NOT IGNORE we are now moving your debt upto the next state , if you do not pay immediatley we will either pass your debt on to our external collection team or commence legal action if your account meets our litigation criteria , god i'm bricking it

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Hello Boss-man.

Cabot currently have me on the signature/application form but have no prescribed terms in reference anywhere on the barely readable microfiche.

They’re currently telling me that because I’ve made payments on the account in March 2008 I’ve admitted the debt is mine and therefore I’m bang to rights. I’m claiming I only paid because of the constant telephone harassment and letter bombardment of which I have evidence after SAR’ing them.

I’ve had the account in dispute for a while now, and like has already been mentioned they’re playing hardball with people like me and you in the hope of scaring us into paying what we just cannot afford.

Hang in there pal, plenty in the same boat.

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wow i am now in the 'pre litigation department

and i quote from crapbots latest missive

if we dont hear from you one of the following options will occur

a warrant of execution. this instructs bailiffs to remove items from your hom and sell them to repay your debt.

a charging order. a charge will be placed on your property which means if you sell your property the charge will have to be repaid from the proceeds.

an attachment of earninings. this is a method by which money will be deducted from your wages

an order to obtain information. you will have to attend court to be questioned under oath

an external debt collection agency or legal agency. calling on you

 

i am plumping for the last one seeing how crapbot are going to need a ccj and default on a ccj before we go anywhere near the others... i keep telling them put the bloody thing before a court... but still they continue to write this crap

 

My point exactly it all sounds scary on paper, but they forget to mention all of the above needs a court victory which is doubtful knowing they deal with unenforceable DEBT.

 

cabot 6 million

 

Cattles several hundred million

 

we wish a merry, we wish you a merry......:D


We live in an unmoderated country why should the net be any different?

Bring back free speech we miss it!

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Thanks for the replies guys.

 

I am sending them the account in dispute letter and leaving it at that for now.

 

What I need to be clear on is they have sent me a copy of the application form with a supposed signature on it. From what I can read the application form refers to supporting documents which by signing the form you agree to. These supporting documents refer to interest rates and minimum payments but thats all they contain in relation to prescribed terms. All the other detail in there is about missing payments, default charges etc etc etc.

 

Does this mean that the agreement is then unenforceable?

 

Also, if they did get to court with this could I use it against them that they provided statements under my CCA and SAR request that were for someone elses account and crossed the name and account number out?

They have since sent further statements which they claim relate to the account but only cover a 12 month period when they application form states the account was opened in 1997. Again, the are not official statements but computer print outs.

 

Thanks for the advice so far.

 

Bossman

Edited by Boss-man

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Hi,

 

Could someone please tell me where I could find the account in dispute template - I cant find it anywhere :confused:

 

Thanks

Bossman

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Hi All,

 

Would something along the lines of this be suitable?

 

Any advice appreciated

 

Thank you for your response dated {xxxxxxxxx} to my request under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.

 

This is now your second correspondence providing documentation purporting to be a valid credit agreement and the contents of your response indicate that this documentation you have provided is a true copy of the original and valid credit agreement.

As you are fully aware the document sent purporting to be a credit agreement does not contain the prescribed terms as required by Section 60(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) made under the authority of the “1974 Act” sets out what the prescribed terms are, I refer you to Schedule 6 Column 2 of SI 1983/1553 for the definition of what is required. Suffice to say these terms are not present in any of the documentation provided thus far rendering it totally un-enforceable.

I would draw your attention to section 60 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states your responsibility in providing documentation in relation to Consumer Credit Agreements which clearly states that it is your legal responsibility to provide a valid Consumer Credit Agreement.

 

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered totally unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974.

You have now failed to provide the information within the required timescale and are now in default of this request. Whilst an account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, make any further charges to the account or pass the account to anybody else.

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults.

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POSSIBLE Letter when a questionable agreement/application is sent.

 

The prescribed terms must be in the same section of the agreement as the signature box. If there is nothing obvious that links them then it is not an agreement. You are home and dry on the statements - they tried to pass off someone else's statements as yours then sent you something completely different - that would never stand up in court. Cabot are now desperate and are not above concocting documents to argue their case. Threaten them with court action for fraud and they will run a mile.

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