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jimbo45

Bailiff Collections - Who are exactly "Vulnerable People"

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Hi all

I'm doing my bit to rid everbody of these Bullies and Thugs by attempting to operate a "Free Sugery" near a Council "Customer (mis?-) Service centre.

 

Been moved on once but am better prepared for "the next instalment".

 

However whilst I'm rapidly coming up to speed on some of this stuff I am not a Practising Lawyer and can only refer people to relevant areas of legislation.

 

Can anybody help me with exactly what constitutes "Vulnerable People"

 

The reason I need this is that a in a lot of cases the Council will HAVE to take back the bill since many will fall under "Vulnerable" category.

 

I also need the legal definition especially in relation as to what constitutes "The Elderly".

 

 

For example I'm over 60 now - have a Bus pass etc - but far far fitter now than when I was 40 - and can even give some 30 year olds a run for their money. :)

 

Presumably by definition I'm classed as "Elderly" but I doubt whether any Medical Doctor would call me that now.

 

I would like to know so I can give correct advice in the "Free Sugery".

In the case of "Vulnerable People" the Council must call of their Dogs so it would help to have the real LEGAL definition of who these actually are.

 

(If "Elderly" means in receipt of a Pension -- then this has to be flawed as some people - unfortunately not me - have got theirs at 50 - a well known Scottish Banker comes to mind here - but that's another story) while others don't qualify AT ALL so have to apply for Social Security etc etc).

 

I'm sure when I get going with this there will be people out there waiting for me to make the SLIGHTEST SLIP UP to get me to shut down.

 

Any Lawyer out there - would be really greatful on clarification of this issue.

 

Thanks

 

Jimbo

Edited by jimbo45

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there is list of vulnerable persons it is part of The nation standards of Enforcement agents 2002 (lost my link to it someone will post it for you I'm sure )

NATIONAL STANDARDS FOR ENFORCEMENT AGENTS MAY 2002

 

Those who might be potentially vulnerable include:

  • the elderly;
  • people with a disability;
  • the seriously ill;
  • the recently bereaved;
  • single parent families;
  • pregnant women;
  • unemployed people; and,
  • those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English

List A

 

1) The following articles belonging to a debtor shall be exempt from distress at the instance of a creditor in respect of a debt due to him by the debtor-

a) clothing reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any member of the debtor's household;

b) implements, tools of trade, books or other equipment including a car or van reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any member of the debtor's household in the practice of the debtor's or such member's profession, trade or business, not exceeding in aggregate value £1,000 or such amount as may be prescribed in regulations made by the Lord Chancellor;

c) medical aids or medical equipment reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any member of his household;

d) books or other articles including a computer reasonably required for the education or training of the debtor or any member of the debtor's household not exceeding in aggregate value £1,000 or such amount as may be prescribed in regulations made by the Lord Chancellor;

e) toys for the use of any child who is a member of the debtor's household;

f) articles reasonably required for the care or upbringing of a child who is a member of the debtor's household.

 

2) The following articles belonging to a debtor shall be exempt from distress if they are at the time of the distress in a dwellinghouse and are reasonably required for the use in the dwellinghouse of the person residing there or a member of the household-

a) beds or bedding;

b) household linen;

c) chairs or settees;

d) tables;

e) food;

f) lights or light fittings;

g) heating appliances;

h) curtains;

i) floor coverings;

j) furniture, equipment or utensils used for cooking storing or eating food;

k) refrigerators;

l) articles used for cleaning, mending, or pressing clothes;

m) articles used for cleaning the dwellinghouse;

n) furniture used for storing-

(i) clothing, bedding or household linen;

(ii) articles used for cleaning the dwellinghouse; or

(iii) utensils used for cooking or eating food;

 

o) articles used for safety in the dwellinghouse or of household articles

3) The Lord Chancellor may by regulations add to the list set out in subsection (2) above, or delete or vary any of the items contained in that list.

We consider that under 1(b) and 1(d) the preferable aggregate value might be £1500.

 

List B

 

Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally by the tenant in their employment, business or vocation and such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions are as necessary for satisfying the basic domestic needs of the debtor and his family.

 

Information and confidentiality

 

  • All notices, correspondence and documentation issued by the agent/agency must be clear and unambiguous and to the satisfaction of the creditor.
  • On returning any un-executed warrants, the enforcement agent should report the outcome to the creditor and provide further appropriate information, where this is requested and paid for by the creditor.
  • All information obtained during the administration and enforcement of warrants must be treated as confidential.
  • Copies of the National Standards for Enforcement Agents must be freely available from the offices of enforcement agencies, or agents on request and wherever possible from creditors.
  • Enforcement agents should provide clear and prompt information to debtors and where appropriate, creditors.
  • Enforcement agents should, so far as it is practical, avoid disclosing the purpose of their visit to anyone other than the debtor. Where the debtor is not seen, the relevant documents must be left at the address in a sealed envelope addressed to the debtor.
  • Enforcement agents will on each and every occasion when a visit is made to a debtor's property which incurs a fee for the debtor, leave a notice detailing the fees charged to date, including the one for that visit, and the fees which will be incurred if further action becomes necessary. If a written request is made an itemised account of fees will be provided.
  • Enforcement agents will clearly explain and give in writing, the consequences of the seizure of a debtor's goods and ensure that debtors are aware of the additional charges that will be incurred.

Times and Hours

 

  • Enforcement should not be undertaken on Sundays, on Bank Holidays, on Good Friday or on Christmas Day, unless the court specifically orders otherwise or in situations where legislation permits it.
  • It is recommended that enforcement should only be carried out between the hours of 6.00am and 9.00pm or at any time during trading hours, existing legislation must be observed.
  • Enforcement agents should be respectful of the religion and culture of others at all times. They should be aware of the dates for religious festivals and carefully consider the appropriateness of undertaking enforcement on any day of religious or cultural observance or during any major religious or cultural festival

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Hi Hallowitch

Thanks again for your usually very very helpful posts etc.

 

However I still have a question with "The Elderly" -- is there a LEGAL as opposed to a Medical definition as to who these actually are.

 

As I said I'm over 60 but far far fitter than I was when I was 40 and can still slug it out (sport wise ) with some 30 year olds.

 

Thanks again

 

Cheers

jimbo

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Jimbo,

 

You had better be careful with your surgery. You need a license to dispense legal advice. You need to be registered to deal with credit issues although it depends exactly on what you do. You need to be licensed to give financial advice.

 

Unless you have the appropriate licenses then you might be buying a heap of bother. Imagine if you gave someone advice which turned out to be wrong or inadequate. You could personally be sued off the face of the earth.

 

However, I have every sympathy and support for what you appear to be doing. I have actively considered doing the same myelf.


I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

You can also ding my gong if you prefer. :)

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jimbo45 write to the council and ask them for a copy of there code of practise for the enforcement of council tax debt

 

sometimes you can find it on there web site

 

I remember reading one that didn't allow bailiffs to levy the TV if it was a single parent home (cant remember what council it was )

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Jimbo,

 

You had better be careful with your surgery. You need a license to dispense legal advice. You need to be registered to deal with credit issues although it depends exactly on what you do. You need to be licensed to give financial advice.

 

Unless you have the appropriate licenses then you might be buying a heap of bother. Imagine if you gave someone advice which turned out to be wrong or inadequate. You could personally be sued off the face of the earth.

 

However, I have every sympathy and support for what you appear to be doing. I have actively considered doing the same myelf.

 

Hi there

 

It states quite clearly that I'm NOT a lawyer and all I am doing is referring them to publicly available advice that they might not be aware of and they should always take LEGAL advice before taking serious action.

 

I'm not advising on Credit issues - this is another area completely but purely advising people that they DON'T have to let a bailiff in, Referring them to the Scale of Fees, and suggesting to them that they get the Council to take back the debt.

 

As a matter of fact I have 2 Lawyer friends in the City who might also give me a hand with this - "Unofficially of course" - Seems that SOME lawyers have a conscience too.

 

Thanks also Hallowitch -- have already written to the Council for their "Guidelines" - but "Guidelines" are just that.

 

I'll have the lawyers read up on this and post back if I can get any definitive rulings in case law.

 

Thanks all

 

I'm more than fired up to run with this now - a bit of the late 1960's rebellion streak in me now again :-x:-x.

 

Cheers

jimbo

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Sorry, I wasn't meaning to criticise, merely to point out the hazards.

I see you're pretty well covered on this so good luck.

 

I would just point out (although I doubt I need to) that people will be gunning for you in a big way. You have to be seen to be sqeakier than squeaky clean. :)


I really do appreciate all those 'thank you' emails - I'm glad I've been able to help. Apologies if I haven't acknowledged all of them.

You can also ding my gong if you prefer. :)

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