St Albans parking fine blunder costs £24,000

[kiptower]

BBC News - St Albans parking fine blunder costs £24,000

[green_and_mean]

I'm surprised its not more, the traffic orders were a joke they still related to RTRA 1984 legislation, driver liable for penalty etc. I cant beleive the numpties in highways dept didn't realise until now.

[kiptower]

they aint all as smart as you G&M :D

[green_and_mean]

they aint all as smart as you G&M :D

 

I did have a link to the TRO on the Council website but they seem to have taken the page down....probably out of embarrasment!

[diskmandave]

People who have already paid the fines are considered to have

admitted liability, although since the error was revealed some have

submitted requests for refunds.

 

I should think so too!!!

 

In the big picture of things though... £24,000 is peanuts...

[lamma]

"The council has since decided to write off 1,621 penalty charge notices. " = 24k in what world of crazy mathematics is this ? at 60 pounds a pop thats 97k, where did the rest go ?

[green_and_mean]

"The council has since decided to write off 1,621 penalty charge notices. " = 24k in what world of crazy mathematics is this ? at 60 pounds a pop thats 97k, where did the rest go ?

 

You are of course assuming that no one ever appeals or pays before the discount runs out and gives the Council an extra £10 on top.

[lamma]

not at all, at half price thats still 40k so 24k is well underneath what should be expected. Statistically there is no way they were all at the minimum payment so it should be over 40k.I see what you mean about the 10 pounds on top. the PCNs were for 50 pounds - but one of the many many TRO flaws was the TRO said 60 pounds - the source of my sixty. I reckon thats just what the council wrote off as expected income - I expect the rest was attributed to 'costs' and lost in the shuffle. Maybe the culture in the accounts department is the same as that in the department that created that abysmally deficient hugely wrong completely non decriminalised TRO. Oh hang on, it will be the parking department's accounts so anomalies probably the norm. This council has laid itself open to HUGE claims. Their stance on 'admitted liability' is a) rubbish, there was no liability to admit and b) irrelevant, claims under tort can be made.

[68904]

Some while ago the clowncil came on a forum saying that there was nothing wrong with thier signs and lines.

Ar recon thes loads wrang wi thi parkin cos thas avin to gi brass back to folks that teld porkis to.

Pehaps mal/misfecance in public office should be next on the menu, tha noz worra mean?

[green_and_mean]

not at all, at half price thats still 40k so 24k is well underneath what should be expected. Statistically there is no way they were all at the minimum payment so it should be over 40k.I see what you mean about the 10 pounds on top. the PCNs were for 50 pounds - but one of the many many TRO flaws was the TRO said 60 pounds - the source of my sixty. I reckon thats just what the council wrote off as expected income - I expect the rest was attributed to 'costs' and lost in the shuffle. Maybe the culture in the accounts department is the same as that in the department that created that abysmally deficient hugely wrong completely non decriminalised TRO. Oh hang on, it will be the parking department's accounts so anomalies probably the norm. This council has laid itself open to HUGE claims. Their stance on 'admitted liability' is a) rubbish, there was no liability to admit and b) irrelevant, claims under tort can be made.

 

The ACTUAL recovery rate is £20-£40 depending on the level of charge you are still assuming they are all paid. What about foreign vehicles, unregistered vehicles, cancelled PCNs, etc? The 'culture' in Councils is to report actual losses not what would have been lost if every single PCN was paid at the full rate which never happens. If you don't beleive me I suggest you FOI your local council and ask what percentage get cancelled and paid at the different rates.

[lamma]

got a link to that ?

[electron99]

Some while ago the clowncil came on a forum saying that there was nothing wrong with thier signs and lines.

Ar recon thes loads wrang wi thi parkin cos thas avin to gi brass back to folks that teld porkis to.

Pehaps mal/misfecance in public office should be next on the menu, tha noz worra mean?

 

 

I give up. What lanquage is this in ?

[lamma]

"Ar recon thes loads wrang wi thi parkin cos thas avin to gi brass back to folks that teld porkis to." I will have a stab at translation. "I am led to the inevitable conclusion that parking enforcement performed by this council is deeply flawed. The evidence of the council insisting on a public forum that all was well is contradicted quite emphatically by the nature of the adjudication against them and their resulting write off of 24 thousand pounds from over 1600 hundred in flight cases."

Edited December 12, 2009 by lamma

[lamma]

The ACTUAL recovery rate is £20-£40 depending on the level of charge you are still assuming they are all paid. What about foreign vehicles, unregistered vehicles, cancelled PCNs, etc? The 'culture' in Councils is to report actual losses not what would have been lost if every single PCN was paid at the full rate which never happens. If you don't beleive me I suggest you FOI your local council and ask what percentage get cancelled and paid at the different rates.

 

In this case the 24 k has to be estimated lost income to the council. As its a PPP deal with NCP we won't know how the 24k is sliced and diced. How many people who ended up facing bailiffs due to an off-street PCN from this piece of rubbish TRO ? " Please provide details of the number and value of instructions passed to the incumbent bailiff service provider(s) in 2008/2009 and 2007/2008 for: d. TMA 2004 Parking Penalties 2007/2008 - 2,389 £175,705 2008/2009 - 1,297 £106,725" . from http://www.stalbans.gov.uk/Images/Use%20and%20management%20of%20bailiffs%20FOI%20364000779%20redacted_tcm15-10324.pdf The odds are that they are not all on-street PCNs. If any readers is a person who faced the bailiffs over an off-street PCN from this town then please post on this thread ASAP Or anyone who paid an off-street PCN in this town - between April 2008 and Nov 2009. Of if you know anyone who falls into either category please post on here.

[green_and_mean]

"Ar recon thes loads wrang wi thi parkin cos thas avin to gi brass back to folks that teld porkis to." I will have a stab at translation. "I am led to the inevitable conclusion that parking enforcement performed by this council is deeply flawed. The evidence of the council insisting on a public forum that all was well is contradicted quite emphatically by the nature of the adjudication against them and their resulting write off of 24 thousand pounds from over 1600 hundred in flight cases."

 

There is no contradiction between stating signage is correct and having a flawed off street order the two are not connected in any way apart from they both involve parking.

[lamma]

There is when the signage is rubbish all over the place. They couldn't be bothered to even attempt to write a decriminalised TRO before pressing ahead with enforcement. Are suggesting they have been rigorous with the signs and lines ? They haven't been. I paid a visit to friends down that way recently, signs and lines very 'messy and weird' shall we say. Have you been there and checked ? or are you just trying to come up a justification for another council ? Oh boy, its not the council you work for is it ? Am still interested in hearing from anyone who paid on one of these off-street PCNs, and from anyone who ended up paying a bailiff for one.

[green_and_mean]

There is when the signage is rubbish all over the place. They couldn't be bothered to even attempt to write a decriminalised TRO before pressing ahead with enforcement. Are suggesting they have been rigorous with the signs and lines ? They haven't been. I paid a visit to friends down that way recently, signs and lines very 'messy and weird' shall we say. Have you been there and checked ? or are you just trying to come up a justification for another council ? Oh boy, its not the council you work for is it ?

 

It has nothing to do with working for a Council it is a case of understanding plain english and knowing what 'contradiction' means. The lines may all be completely wrong for all I care but the alledged statement they are correct is not contradicted by a ruling a TRO is wrong.

[lamma]

Which has nothing to do with the fact that this council messed up big time, and in several ways. and, we are told, had the gall to send out 'all is well' messages about their signage when all is not well with it. One wonders how and why. Just a complete lack or awareness of reality on their part ? incompetence ? delusions ? too much medication ? deliberate covering up ?

[68904]

lamma Re: St Albans parking fine blunder costs £24,000

"Ar recon thes loads wrang wi thi parkin cos thas avin to gi brass back to folks that teld porkis to." I will have a stab at translation. "I am led to the inevitable conclusion that parking enforcement performed by this council is deeply flawed. The evidence of the council insisting on a public forum that all was well is contradicted quite emphatically by the nature of the adjudication against them and their resulting write off of 24 thousand pounds from over 1600 hundred in flight cases."

 

I recon thas it nail reight on ead wi thi gud tranzlashun of wot av sed. Tha noz worra mean?