Letter from Railway re no ticket

[Tally123]

I have searched through the internet and hope someone can help me.

 

A few weeks ago in November I spent a long weekend in London (to attend the Remembrance Sunday parade) the first time I had done so for many years. On the Saturday morning, I had to travel from London Bridge Station to Charing Cross Station to meet up with a an old pal.

 

I touched in my card at London Bridge and the barriers opened (I had only used the card on the bus upto this point). As I wished to see where I was going, I took the proper train from London Bridge to Charing Cross as opposed to using London Underground. I thought the card was valid for doing this, also being disabled and a crutches user I do panic about having lots of stairs to climb at underground stations if the escalators are not working .

 

However upon arriving at Charing Cross Station, I tried to use the card to exit the platform but the barrier would not open and the sign lit up 'Seek Assistance' I was then pounced upon by about 6 people who had been stood at the barrier. I felt quite intimidated to be honest. A man kept pointing to a little sign and said that the cards are not valid on trains.

 

I was quite sure mine was which I told him, but the man was inisitent cards were not allowed and demanded I gave him my name address etc which as I was surrounded I felt compelled to do. I was never asked to show my card at all.

 

Anyway, I was just pleased to get away, met up with my pal and thought no more. I used my card quite a lot of times over the few days I was there and never had another problem with it.

 

I have now received a letter from the train company saying I had travelled without a valid ticket.

 

Now I am home, I have looked again on the internet and my card is shown as being valid after 9.30 on weekdays and all day on a weekend. I cannot see that I have done anything wrong. Should I just get my card photocopied to send in or just write in to tell them? I thought the whole idea of these Oyster things were to enable people to travel in and around London on all transport which is more or less what it says on the website.

 

Thank you.

 

Tally123

[rebel11]

Tally123,

 

The best thing to do is to write to them, explain what you've explained here to us here. Don't miss out any details.

[Sol]

I'm quite surprised at the number of people that are reporting this kind of intimidation from inspectors, particularly in London.

 

I understand there will be a lot of passengers who don't have a ticket who deliberately are trying to evade payment, and it is acceptable to take them to court etc. However, there's going to be a number of people who genuinely bought the wrong ticket, or dropped it etc and they are being treated like criminals.

 

The ticketing system on Britain's railways is quite complicated as it is; it's not always clear when peak and off peak times are, what zones the tickets covers and so on.

 

Surely the most politest way of getting the lost revenue is to advise the customer of where they've made the mistake, or to make sure they hold on to their ticket in future and charge them the fare?

[rebel11]

Good post Sol.

[Old-CodJA]

I'm quite surprised at the number of people that are reporting this kind of intimidation from inspectors, particularly in London.

 

I understand there will be a lot of passengers who don't have a ticket who deliberately are trying to evade payment, and it is acceptable to take them to court etc. However, there's going to be a number of people who genuinely bought the wrong ticket, or dropped it etc and they are being treated like criminals.

 

The ticketing system on Britain's railways is quite complicated as it is; it's not always clear when peak and off peak times are, what zones the tickets covers and so on.

 

Surely the most politest way of getting the lost revenue is to advise the customer of where they've made the mistake, or to make sure they hold on to their ticket in future and charge them the fare?

 

 

There is never any excuse for rudeness, whether from rail staff or travellers.

 

Sadly, the low key approach has consistently failed because if a traveller persistently doesn't buy a ticket and is only ever charged the fare due on the occasions when spotted, then they will never be re-educated and the rail companies will continue to lose fare revenue because they cannot afford to staff full checks on all trains and between all stops.

 

It would be helpful to know what kind of Oyster was held and the time of the journey so as to be able to give detailed advice, but in general, travellers with obvious difficulties should be afforded every opportunity to pay the correct fare due

[rebel11]

Old-Codja

 

Maybe if they didn't have six inspectors at one point you would have a vaild arguement, but Tally's experience speaks volumes.

[Tally123]

Thank you all, I will write in to them.

 

I made the journey at about 0910hrs on the Saturday.

 

According to the website which is for the card I have (veterans concessionary oyster card) I am sure it is valid? It is my card with my photo on, valid until 2012, but they didn't want to look at it, they just said it was not valid on the trains.

 

Travel benefits | Transport for London

 

as it shows on the map here:

 

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/veterans-concessionary-travel-scheme-map-march-2009.pdf

 

Can someone confirm my card is valid for the journey I took?

 

Thank you.

 

Tally123

Edited December 10, 2009 by Tally123

[SRPO]

It would appear that even TFL are confused:

 

Pass holders can travel free:

• At any time on buses within London. Most non-TfL local bus services operating in London accept Veterans Concessionary Travel Scheme (VCTS) Oyster photocards on their services from 09:30-23:00 on weekdays and any time on weekends and public holidays. If in doubt, please ask the driver.
  
• on Tube services between London stations and the following Tube stations outside the Greater London zonal area (and at intermediate stations where appropriate):

Pass holders can travel free between London stations and the following National Rail stations outside the Greater London zonal area: Dartford Swanley.

 

Quote the above from the mayors website and see what they say.

 

If you have any problems PM me and I will draft a letter for you.

[Old-CodJA]

Old-Codja

 

Maybe if they didn't have six inspectors at one point you would have a vaild arguement, but Tally's experience speaks volumes.

 

I do wish that you would offer some constructive help or useful remarks in your postings rather than always chipping-in with your clearly anti-rail or anti revenue checking bias.

 

I for one would love to see all public transport free of charge allowing us all to travel when and where we like without let or hindrance, but I live in the real world where that's never going to happen because WE are not prepared to pay for it. 95% of the travelling public pay their way and try to do the right thing. The system sometimes, not always as you seem to infer, let's them down, but infalibility is a human trait.

 

The 5% that don't pay or, go out of their way to avoid paying, make it more expensive and more inconvenient for the rest of us.

 

I must apologise in that in my reply to Sol's posting, I had overlooked the fact that Tally123 had detailed the journey and it is clear that the Veteran's pass was valid for the journey between Charing Cross and London Bridge. I don't believe for one second that Tally123 is one of the 5%, but it is a victim of an avoidable failure by the staff making the check and should not have been penalised in any way.

 

That does not validate the generalisation in your comment

 

I will always acknowledge everyone's right to express an opinion, but many very knowledgeable contributors have already stopped offering help and advice on this forum because of such unhelpful and unnecessay swipes as your latest offering

 

It may have escaped your clearly limited knowledge of the revenue protection teams activities, that when a barrier check is made at London stations, more than one person gets off a train at a time.

 

Accordingly, there are frequently five or six people with queries being dealt with at a time. Remember, these are random checks, huge teams are not there every day

 

It is as much to do with facilitating minimal delay to travellers when these exercises take place as it is to do with catching offenders.

 

How exactly do you suggest that is achieved without adequate resources?

Edited December 10, 2009 by Old-CodJA

[Tally123]

Thank you SRPO and Old-Codga (sounds a bit like me that name).

 

I will quote the paragraph SRPO has provided.I have also photocopied my veterans travel card as well to enclose.

 

I still cannot understand why the man said my card was not valid. Are only some cards valid on proper trains or something?. On the bus and on the odd underground journey I dadn't have any problems - just on the train. I thought, being a visitor to London, the card was a great way to travel around the capital and bearing in mind it was Remembrance Sunday weekend there were a lot of us veterans visiting London who must have been using the cards, so am a bit surprised the chap didn't know the rules for the veterans cards.

 

I didn't realise anything would come of it so was very shocked when I received the letter today,

 

Thank you again.

 

Tally123

[Tally123]

I have composed a letter to send in, together with a copy of my veterans concessionary travel oysterc card. I intend sending it by Special Delivery on Monday.

 

Just so I am clear in my mind, not really knowing the system in London (I have only visited there twice in 18 years) can I clear up a few queries.

 

1. Are no Oystercards accepted on 'proper' trains, or are some, or are all?.

 

2. With my Oystercard, do I have to obtain a 'free' ticket for the journey, ot this 'permit to travel' I have read of on here, or as I think, the veterans Oystercard acts as the ticket itself.

 

3. If (as I am reasonably sure) my veterans oyster card was valid for my journey (as it let me in at London Bridge), what would cause it not to let me out at Charing Cross Station and cause the 'seek assistance' thing to light up and the barrier not to open?

 

4.fter this incident, I noticed when I used my veterans card on the busses, the scanner display said 'Freedom Pass' - is my card wrongly coded?

 

5. If it is, would the journey I undertook be allowed on whatever is a 'Freedom Pass'?

 

Sorry for the questions, just I want things clear in my own mind, as I am rather worried about the letter and being taken to court for alleged fare evasion.

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Tally123

[andydd]

I'm quite surprised at the number of people that are reporting this kind of intimidation from inspectors, particularly in London.

 

I understand there will be a lot of passengers who don't have a ticket who deliberately are trying to evade payment, and it is acceptable to take them to court etc. However, there's going to be a number of people who genuinely bought the wrong ticket, or dropped it etc and they are being treated like criminals.

 

The ticketing system on Britain's railways is quite complicated as it is; it's not always clear when peak and off peak times are, what zones the tickets covers and so on.

 

Surely the most politest way of getting the lost revenue is to advise the customer of where they've made the mistake, or to make sure they hold on to their ticket in future and charge them the fare?

 

Me too, threads like this are becoming more and more common, its worrying, I have commuted to London for over 7 years and actually worked for a company which worked closely with TfL but even i on occasions found myself on trains/tubes with an invalid Oyster for some bizzare reason, in fact it happened last saturday, I swiped my Oyster at Upminister and used the c2c train to continue to fenchurch street but my oyster didnt work there and just showed an 'error number', the guard then pointed to a chart on the wall explaining what the numbers meant, I didnt understand what was going on and eventually just walked through the gate.

 

Due to the complexities of the train/tube system where certain types of oyster are not valid on certain trains it can be very confusing for even 'experts' to understand it all, if you are a tourist or first time visiter to london it can be a nightmare.

 

The signs explaining where they can and cant be used are never clear, here is an example.

 

Using Oyster PAYG on c2c, c2c

 

Note the phrase "Please be aware that contrary to information contained in other publications, Oyster PAYG is not valid on c2c outside of the area shown above."

Which implies that somewhere there is information contradicting this (I think its a TfL leaflet).

 

Andy

[Tally123]

Hello,

 

I have today received a response from the trains people, who in their letter are saying I travelled using a 'Pay as you go Oyster Card, hence I was stopped as these cards are not valid on South trains.

 

Is my Veterans Concessionary Oyster card one of these 'Pay as you Go Oystercards' as I haven't paid anything for it?. I have no other Oystercard whatsoever and have never had any other Oystercard.

 

The literature I have seems to imply that I could travel on the train that I travelled on but they are saying I could not as it was a pay as you go oystercard.

 

I am a bit confused about all this to be honest as I have not been to London for many years and it is putting me off visiting again.

 

Thank you for any help.

 

Tally

[Tally123]

Help please.

 

The British Legion have told me that my veterans Oystercard was valid for the journey I took and it is not a Pay as you go Oystercard.

 

The train company insist it was a Pay as you go card I had (else the barriers would have opened). I have never had a pay as you go Oystercard (or any other Oystercard for that matter, other than my Veterans Oystercard).

 

They are apparantly going to prosecute me for fare evasion (not having a valid ticket for the journey).

 

I seem to be going round in circles with them. Can anyone help me with this?

 

Thanks

 

Tally.

[Old-CodJA]

It may help you to ring the Oyster Helpline on 0845 330 9876 and explain the problem, quoting your full Oystercard Number. This is the 12 digit number on the top right hand corner of the back of your card..

 

If it is less than 8 weeks since the incident you can get a print-out of the transactions on your Oyster Card.

 

Your original post makes clear that you 'touched in at London Bridge'

 

The record of that transaction will show what kind of Oystercard was being used.

[Tally123]

Thank you old codga.

 

I will try that but fear it is over eight weeks ago now (it was on the day before Remembrance Sunday in November).

 

I will give it a try though.

 

Thanks again

 

Tally