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Some important basic advice on parking fine recovery law pleeeeze ?

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Can anyone tell me what the precise legal position is with parking fines recovery if you refuse to pay at any stage, then tell the bailiff to b****r off successfully until they finally give up.

 

I have seen a couple of programmes on television showing the police installing roadblocks (just like any good old fascist police state !) to look for non insured drivers, criminals etc.

 

Putting aside the issue of being trapped for not being insured, which doesn't concern me as I am always insured, unless I'm mistaken, I have seen the police detain cars where the driver owes parking fines only.

 

The police have then telephoned the bailiff company concerned with collection of the 'debt' and the bailiff then arrives and the poor sodding motorist instantly loses his car as the bailiff has the legal powers to steal it with the police there to make the car driver powerless to do anything about it - except pay up.

 

There is also the similar question of CCTV number recognition cameras on motorways clocking cars owing only parking tickets which ae then intercepted by police.

 

My question is, how the hell can the police become involved in parking ticket debt recovery in this way. Surely the only person with any legal powers of parking fine debt recovery is the bailiff holding his warrant.

 

Can someone clarify whether the police have the legal powers to detain cars which owe parking ticket debt.

 

Surely they would be acting entirely outside the law ?

 

Of course it is possible I am mistaken about this, but I really would like to know.

 

Does anyone out there know anything about this ?

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Every time I have seen the Police involved there is a baliff present, Civil debts do not show on the PNC so its highly unlikely it would register on a Police ANPR system. I have watched many TV police programmes and never seen someone detained for a parking fine so I'd be interested in what programe this was.

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I cant remember exactly what programme as it was some time ago. But it was something like nightwatch or cops with cameras.

 

It may be that the cops make sure a bailiff is there with them as part of the road block.

 

But what concerns me is am I going to stopped on a motorway and detained because I have a parking ticket I have refused point blank to pay ?

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ps, contrary to some claims made, it is a fact that the police do connive with bailiffs to assist them recover, as I have personally witnessed when parking ticket debt recovery bailiff put his foot in my door and then called the police who threatened to arrest me if I didn't let the bailiff into my house.

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I have known police to stop a car with outstanding bailiff debt for PCNs, call out the bailiff and the car got towed to the pound.

 

I agree it's probably outside the law, but who's going to stop it?

 

If you really did refuse to co-operate with the bailiffs, this is the risk you would run, plus you would risk being found by chance and clamped, or clamped outside your house, or they might gain entry somehow. It's a game of cat-and-mouse.

 

A warrant is only good for 12 months, but the debt remains after that so in theory, a new warrant could be obtained and the situation could go on and on.

 

I've also heard talk of detachment of earnings - ie the bailiff gets money deducted at source from your wages - but I'm not entirely sure they can do this.

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There was a huge thread on this a while back and it seems quite well documented that some police forces used to do it:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/145713-detained-police-unpaid-pcn.html

 

I also know that Marstons are still attempting to recruit other police forces in this way, with unknown success, again using the 'they're more likely to be uninsured' fallacy.


Post by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.

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I have known police to stop a car with outstanding bailiff debt for PCNs, call out the bailiff and the car got towed to the pound.

 

I agree it's probably outside the law, but who's going to stop it?

 

If you really did refuse to co-operate with the bailiffs, this is the risk you would run, plus you would risk being found by chance and clamped, or clamped outside your house, or they might gain entry somehow. It's a game of cat-and-mouse.

 

A warrant is only good for 12 months, but the debt remains after that so in theory, a new warrant could be obtained and the situation could go on and on.

 

I've also heard talk of detachment of earnings - ie the bailiff gets money deducted at source from your wages - but I'm not entirely sure they can do this.

 

 

Well, these are the very question I need clearly defined in legal terms.

 

I want to know:

 

- firstly if the unpaid parking fines are actually visible to police at all.

 

- secondly, if I tell the police to b****r off and leave me alone and cease detaining me (if they have detained me for parking debt only) and point out to them they are acting unlawfully, will I be correct.

 

- thirdly can a bailiff or council (who issued the parking fine) apply to court for attachment of earning as suggested ?

 

I know that the police rely on the ignorance of the public in legal matters to intimidate people in various ways - I know, I've experienced it.

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ps, contrary to some claims made, it is a fact that the police do connive with bailiffs to assist them recover, as I have personally witnessed when parking ticket debt recovery bailiff put his foot in my door and then called the police who threatened to arrest me if I didn't let the bailiff into my house.

 

It has nothing to do with 'conniving' if the baliff has legal right of entry the Police can be called to prevent any breach of the law.

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This does not constitute legal advice and is not represented as a substitute for legal advice from an appropriately qualified person or firm.

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Bailliff has a right to request entry. If all the doors and windows are closed they can't break in. always video a bailiff visit but never open the door or leave an open entry to the house. Bailiffs have been caught lying on visits to the extent of losing their license. get them to post the warrant through your letter box. They have to give it if asked It doesn't matter what they say NEVER open the door. there are a few good sites on the web so that you can get good bailiff advice online. Police connivance does happen.

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It has nothing to do with 'conniving' if the baliff has legal right of entry the Police can be called to prevent any breach of the law.

 

 

I know the bailiff has the right to call the police to prevent a breach of the peace.

 

But the bailiff does NOT have the right to force his foot through the door and refuse to remove it. That is forced entry. Then when the bailiff calls the police in those circumstances, the police have no right to threaten arrest for a breach of the peace to the householder.

 

If there is to be an arrest it should be the arrest of the bailiff who has broken the law by attempting forced entry!

 

This is an example of the police conniving and it happened to me.

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Bailliff has a right to request entry. If all the doors and windows are closed they can't break in. always video a bailiff visit but never open the door or leave an open entry to the house. Bailiffs have been caught lying on visits to the extent of losing their license. get them to post the warrant through your letter box. They have to give it if asked It doesn't matter what they say NEVER open the door. there are a few good sites on the web so that you can get good bailiff advice online. Police connivance does happen.

 

Thet can force entry for traffic/parking fines issued by the Police.

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Thet can force entry for traffic/parking fines issued by the Police.

 

My understanding is that only police fines for speeding etc which are imposed by a court allow a forced entry by bailiffs.

 

There is no right of entry for an ordinary council issued parking ticket resulting in civil debt.

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thanks for that. a very interesting thread, BUT I still don't really know what the law actually says about it. All I can see is that it has happened but it is not clear if it is continuing and if people are taking positive action against it.

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My understanding is that only police fines for speeding etc which are imposed by a court allow a forced entry by bailiffs.

 

There is no right of entry for an ordinary council issued parking ticket resulting in civil debt.

 

Isn't that what I said?

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Isn't that what I said?

 

errrr ? yes, but it seemed to, but it also seemed to be unclear and also mean all parking debt. But I realise it could be read either way, that is the problem - lack of clarity ?

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