Mbna

[Worried6]

Hi All

 

Thanks for the prompt replies guys - as ever it is good to get a handle on things again.The hardest part of this process is staying calm and accepting that you will have to go in circles at times.

 

Davey - are you interested in seeing the latest letter from Apex?

 

To answer one of your questions I did include in my SAR a request for true copies of any notice of assignment. What I have got from Apex is a letter stating that they have purchased the account and all rights and claims in respect of all amounts o/s on the account as at 18th March 2009.Also that all future discussions regarding the repayment must be directly with Apex.

Is this a Notice of Assignment? I figured anyone could write and tell me that. I thought a Notice of Assignment would be from MBNA stating they'd passed it on - I have had a letter to that effect from Tesco.

Sorry to sound niave I just don't have the experience of the terms used.

 

 

W6

[Worried6]

Sorry should have said - I am offline for a while now - technical problems in this office but will follow up on replies tomorrow morning.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

W6

[Viscount Stair]

What the Law of Property Act requires is that you have express notice of the assignment.

 

There is no prescribed form nor any requirement for the notice to come from one party or the other.

 

However, since (as you say yourself) anyone could send an NoA, it would be prudent (and, therefore, appropriate) for you to confirm the position with the original creditor.

[davey77]

Hi All

 

Thanks for the prompt replies guys - as ever it is good to get a handle on things again.The hardest part of this process is staying calm and accepting that you will have to go in circles at times.

 

Davey - are you interested in seeing the latest letter from Apex?

 

To answer one of your questions I did include in my SAR a request for true copies of any notice of assignment. What I have got from Apex is a letter stating that they have purchased the account and all rights and claims in respect of all amounts o/s on the account as at 18th March 2009.Also that all future discussions regarding the repayment must be directly with Apex.

Is this a Notice of Assignment? I figured anyone could write and tell me that. I thought a Notice of Assignment would be from MBNA stating they'd passed it on - I have had a letter to that effect from Tesco.

Sorry to sound niave I just don't have the experience of the terms used.

 

 

W6

 

That's ok.. if you have quoted it word for word. That's just a little letter then and not a NoA.

This is the one i had for the Halifax account as an example:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/CIMG1571.jpg

 

Now, this was received in the same envelope as the 'welcome to Cabot' letter so, as i say, i wrote to Halifax directly for confirmation and after two requests had this:

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t42/davey77_2007/Halifax-1.jpg

 

I understand a DCA can send the NoA themselves on behalf of the original creditor (OC) with their permission so it's not unusual to get it from the DCA and it doesn't have to be directly from the OC. But a letter stating 'we have bought this, pay now' and not at least signed or confirmed by the original lender isn't good enough in my opinion and you want confirmation (as i had) from the Lender that they have no further interest in the account.

 

Hopefully you'll get confirmation of the NoA via a complaint through the ICO. Send them a copy of the SAR you sent showing that request included so they know that's one of the documents you require.

 

In the mean time, assume Apex have bought it and, contrary to what i said earlier, send a CCA straight off to Apex as you don't know how long it will take to eventually get the proof of ownership.

[Worried6]

Hi and once again many thanks all of you for the very detailed advice.

 

Should I just send the standard template CCA to Apex & include the line 'I acknowledge no debt to you etc etc ......'.

I was wondering whether I need to include a mention the issue of ownership of the debt and the absence of a more appropriate NoA at this stage

Also where will I get the postal address for the Information Commissioners Office. Is there a particular department to write to?

 

Sorry for all these basic questions - new ground for me to make complaints about anything!

 

Thanks again for taking the trouble to reply to me and for the copy documents Davey.

 

ATB

W6

[Worried6]

Quick Update

 

I am preparing the replies and have just noticed that APEX have got the wrong account number on their letter to me. It is an MBNA number but definately not mine?

 

Would this make a difference in my reply?

 

Thanks

W6

[davey77]

I really have to rush out now.. but just to briefly comment.

 

When MBNA sell an account they automatically assign a new number for the DCA. (Don't ask why?!).

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/172734-hfc-agreement-enforcable-5.html#post2009033

 

Back laters

[davey77]

Yes put I acknowledge no debt to you etc etc in the Apex letter.

 

Put the 'wrong' account number as a reference number to them: Ref: ****** etc

 

Write to MBNA as suggested "failed to supply S.A.R info, reporting the matter to the ICO etc" and also ask for clarification on the unrecognised account numbers. You 'should' get a reply to the effect as i had in the link above.

 

You can complain online with the ICO:

https://www.ico.gov.uk/Global/contact_us.aspx

 

But their address is:

 

Information Commissioner's Office

Wycliffe House

Water Lane

Wilmslow

Cheshire

SK9 5AF

[Worried6]

Hi Davey

 

Thanks so much for the advice. I will work at this this afternoon and get letters away first thing tomorrow.

I had wondered about what account number to put on the Apex Letter so on the draft I have I inserted their own 6 digit reference number instead. I will add in the new account number as well as you suggest.

 

Will keep the thread updated.

 

I really appreciate your support, thanks again. I just don't know where you get the time and energy from but thank goodness for it.

 

Regards

W6

[davey77]

No worries.. ermm worried6

 

Keep us posted.

[Worried6]

All the best from - not so worried 'W6'

[Worried6]

Things have moved on a lot since my last post and I find myself facing a very threatening letter from Apex.

 

As advised back in April/May I wrote to MBNA & I sent 2 separate letters:

1. Request for verification that the account has been sold to Apex and to

query the new account number they were using.

2. SAR Request (2nd time) including a CCA Request under CPR Rules to try

and get the actual agreement.

I also sent a CCA Request to Apex and asked for confirmation of their involvement in this account duly authenticated by MBNA.

Basically I got little back.

MBNA acknowledged receipt of 'a letter' and APEX wrote to say that due to my dispute they had approached MBNA for a copy CCA.

 

In June

MBNA asked again for security ID and eventually in August returned my Postal Order and closed the matter. No SAR information and no reference to Apex or the new account number.

 

Apex sent a copy of the CCA (same as I got way back at the start of this thread) and also a pile of old copy statements inaccordance with my SAR Request?

I also got a copy of a letter for another customer attached by mistake holding all their personal details.

 

Between August and now I have had 3 letters from Apex ranging from an offer to settle with discount to the latest one which is scary.

 

I'd appreciate a view now.

They accuse me of not attempting to reach a satisfactory arrangement with them and therefore will place the account into litigation.- extract follows:

"It is our intention to undertake appropraite checking & validation on your account before seeking an Order of Court directing you to pay monies. If that Order is granted and you continue to refuse payment then we may seek to enforce the Order through a Warrent of Execution. SHould a Warrant of Execution be granted, a Court Enforcement Officer known as a Bailiff will be authorised to visit your home to enforce the Warrant."

 

They go on to desctibe what a Bailiff can do and ask me to contact them immediately.

 

Am very upset by this - has anyone got this sort of letter and dealt with it?

I am so tired I can't think or sleep I know this is my own fault but I don't know how to even take responsibility anymore I am so scared. I don't have money to spare but I own a house and I am frightened about it being taken. I am going to explore a sale in the New Year possibly to help me get money to bargain with.

Please help. Things are real bad at the moment.

 

W6

[Worried6]

Could anyone advise if the 'Bailiff' is used in Northern Ireland.

I have a debt with an English based DCA who are threatening all sorts and it sounds as though they can seek an Order of Court and then enforce it using a Warrent of Execution which means that someone is permitted to enter my house and take possessions and charge me for the privilege.

 

Sorry to be naive but I am so worried. Maybe there is another system here which amounts to the same thing.

Could anyone advise?

 

 

Thanks so much.

[hallowitch]

Enforcement of civil court orders in Northern Ireland | NIDirect

 

found this on google

[royalblue1878]

W6, don't worry too much about that letter. If you look at the way it's written you will see that it is full of 'may do this and may do that' It is designed purely to scare you into paying.

 

If it goes to court and you don't fight it and win, you will be ordered to pay what you can afford and nothing more, if you fail to pay what you can afford and break a court order only then can Bailiffs be used.

 

When I sar'd MBNA they complied without any problems or ID! It could be you have a jobsworth or they have something they do not want you to see.

 

The tactics used by DCA's are common and I know it's difficult but try not to worry too much.

 

Royalblue.

[Worried6]

Hi hallowitch

 

Thanks so much for this. I will read right away.

 

 

W6

[Worried6]

Thanks Royal Blue

 

I see that the wording is quite vague but it can really strike hard so I suppose thats why they do it.

 

It is interesting to hear that you got the SAR furnished without the problems I've had.

The copy CCA is quite suspect but it is the same version that was sent by MBNA in the early days of this dispute well before the debt was sold on. It turned up again from Apex in June when I CCAd them.

 

It feels like a stand off - I've requested CCA and been supplied with one.

Is this the point that I write to challenge its validity?

 

WHen I get my head settled I know I need to write again but want to sound knowledgeable.

 

 

Thanks Again

W6

[royalblue1878]

Hi Again,

 

I have 2 accounts with MBNA that are being handled by Restons solicitors, The cca they sent me for one account was just a blank application form and current terms and conditions, for the other account they admitted it could not be found, the words they used were 'retrieval issues'.

 

It doesn't seem to matter too much at this stage if the agreements are valid or not as they are playing a game to see who breaks first, and this can reach court paper stage.

 

I was sent court papers by Restons which are being defended on account of non existent cca's and the judge has just ordered a stay to see if we can settle any other way. As I do not have any funds to settle it will be interesting to see what happens next.

 

I cannot give you any solid advice on what to do next as I do not have the knowledge or experience to do it justice.

 

Someone more qualified will help soon I am sure!

 

Royal.

[Worried6]

Thanks Again RoyalBlue

 

It is good to hear about your dealings and pull out the similarities to mine.

A long time back another Cagger told me my CCA looked like a cut and paste version. I am starting to think that maybe MBNA knew they were up against problems with it.

 

Apex are very agressive in their approach and I need to get focussed on what I have to do. I don't think I should just ignore this latest Apex letter.

I hope someone comes back with a suggestion about the sort of response I should make.

Thanks again for your support.

 

Regards

W6

Edited December 9, 2009 by Worried6
Typo

[ScarletPimpernel]

There are no bailiffs in NI; they stopped using them after PIRA and other assorted **** decided that they were 'legitimate targets'.

 

Instead, there is the Enforcement of Judgments Office (EJO). This is a far better (and modern) system, and is operated by the Courts Service. EJOs do not act like Bailiffs; instead, they will aim to negotiate payment at an affordable rate.

 

However, before EJOs can be involved, the creditor would first need to issue a court claim, and obtain judgment, and then you would have to fail to pay in accordance with that judgment. In short, the DCA is full of pish and wind.

 

Threatening action wihich cannot legally be taken is contrary to CPUTR 2008, and threatening action in the wrong jurisdiction is a breach of OFT Guidance.

 

You can safely ignore any threats of bailiffs made by a DCA. It's also worth noting that court claims for debt are less common in NI because the court system is far stricter - there's no equivalent to the Northampton Bulk Centre, and a claimant has to produce all the paperwork with their claim.

[Worried6]

Hi There

 

Thanks for this specific advice.

It starting to sound as though living here will help - I don't think DCAs are up to speed with issues of jurisdiction.

Sorry could you tell me what 'CPUTR 2008' refers to?

 

The problem is with Apex who have purchased an MBNA debt.I have a thread on this already in the DC Forum. (Re:Mbna)

I'd appreciate your take on this given that you understand the NI issue and I am uncertain how I should respond to the latest threat and still sound knowledgeable.

 

Thankyou

W6

[Worried6]

"You can safely ignore any threats of bailiffs made by a DCA. It's also worth noting that court claims for debt are less common in NI because the court system is far stricter - there's no equivalent to the Northampton Bulk Centre, and a claimant has to produce all the paperwork with their claim."

 

Hi me again.

I have been thinking about this bit. Does this mean that if a DCA wants to process through court that even if they went to Northampton (or whatever) the case would have to be processed through North Irish courts according to our rules. i.e. They would have to provide all necessary paper work.

The thing that worries me most is that something gets into the mainland system without my knowledge. I heave heard other caggers talk about Bryan Carter for example and that he gets unopposed judgements because people don't make the correct response through ignorance.

Anyways I cant afford to travel to England to defend myself.

 

Thanks again

W6

[palomino]

If you lodge a defence then the case is transferred to your nearest County Court. Judgments awarded at the Northampton CCBC are only those where no defence has been submitted, or where the defendant admits all or part of the debt and judgment is made for the admitted amount.

[Worried6]

Thankyou for you response.

I may have to think about the legal issues soon so I expecty I'll need a lot more advice from this site.

I have another thread running on 'Fredrickson International and Bryan Carter'.

 

Regards

W6

[Worried6]

Hi

 

I am getting hassle from Apex now and would really need help compose the next letter to them.

Back in December I wrote and made the point that the Agreement received 'appeared' to be no more than an Application Form, also pointed out that it was illegible, did not contain all of the prescribed terms and conditions and was unsigned by the lender.

In January Apex ignored this and wrote to say that since I had not responded they would be sending a doorstep collector.

I replied again - revoking their right to arrange anyone to visit my home and referring to my December letter and asking for a response from them.

The reply has just arrived. They attach another copy of the dubious MBNA Agreement and write as follows:

 

"I would also like to satisfy your concerns over the validity of the agreement (copy enclosed).

In response to your point whereby you state that the document that has been supplied is an application form; I draw your attention to the highlighted paragraph that clearly states 'Credit Agreement regulated by the CCA 1974'. On your signing of this CCA Form you have entered into the agreement an are bound by its terms. This is printed in the signature strip.

In conclusion to this matter APEX has fulfilled its duty of supply information under CCA1974.

Please contact our office as a matter of urgency.........."

 

They have ignored the point about illegibility, the position and clarity of the T&Cs and the lack of signature of the lender.

 

I'd really appreciate guidance on the best approach to take now. I don't want to get stuck in an argument about what is or is not a valid CCA with this organisation as I don't really know myself.

 

Thanks

W6