N150 assistance needed...please? / **WON**

[gh2008]

sorry, what else do you need? got a bit lost on this now

[gh2008]

You would say yes?! just to get my head around it, if I say yes to trying to settle and yes to a one month stay, what would happen then? and how would I let them know they have a poor case without letting them know the reasons why?!

 

In one way it it were a much reduced sum it could almost be worth considering, the problem being we are seeing it as 4k, so 50% of that would be good at 2k, but they are seeing 8k, so even if they offered 50% its still the same as we started, i was actually thinking do they ever contact prior to court with an offer like that?

 

Cheers!

 

With an unenforceable debt you could offer 10%-15% and in exchanged marked as fully settled and default removed from CRA

 

If it ends up at court you want to be able to say that you tried hard to not waste the court's time.

[gh2008]

also gives you more time to hammer home their failure to provide docs.

[NGEddie]

sorry, what else do you need? got a bit lost on this now

 

I know the feeling, lol

 

Ok, I had in my head to tick No to all the settlement part, but you said tick yes to the first two, is it likely or common the finance companies will try and settle early and a good compromie can be met? I am unsure what best to do on this.

 

Pre-action, is this paragraph acceptable?

 

This case is not covered by any approved protocol. After being diagnosed with a critical ilness rendering me unable to work by docotors orders, I have tried to act reasonably in attempting to negotiate a payment plan, however the claimant has been, indimitating, un-sympathetic and unco-operative, hence going straight to this claim.

Witness, i thought to put myself and my Dad for all facts, maybe I am wrong though?

 

Track part, I guess all the CCA rules still apply in the small claims? but gather it can be used for a straight forward case, like bad DN and other which I have, to resolve quickly even if over 5k? and it is good point as back up in case things went wrong in restricting costs!

 

Directions, just use the templtes I have been seeing asking for all documents in 14 days, this is fine.

 

Other Infomation is to attach the part asking about directions and at a disatvantage if they dont supply etc....

 

Actually I think that is about it, would you believe I didnt sleep at all last night and have come home from work il today with what feels like the flue, urgh! not good, this is just going round and round my head constantly, so I want to say a big thank you for peoples time, especially gh2008, on this, I guess I keep panicing in case I forget something and then post on here when no one is around!

 

Oh also, is it worth me calling the court to see if the other side have submitted theirs yet? I think I read if so I can ask for a copy?

 

Thanks again!

 

E

[NGEddie]

also gives you more time to hammer home their failure to provide docs.

 

You mean if the dont respond to the directions? as I didnt actually do the CPR thing in the end :-?

 

I believe the reason I didnt is because the POC doesnt actually mention them in any way, its quite vauge :-

 

The Claimants Claim is for the sum of XXXX being monies due and payable under the terms of a written finance agreement entered into between the parties on xxxx full particulars of which have been supplied to the Defendant. The Claimant also claims interest thereon pursuant to Section 69 of the county court Act 1984 at the rate of xx per annum

 

Looks not very good compared to many others I have read!

[gh2008]

I know the feeling, lol

 

Ok, I had in my head to tick No to all the settlement part, but you said tick yes to the first two, is it likely or common the finance companies will try and settle early and a good compromie can be met? I am unsure what best to do on this.

 

Nope they won't, but the Court expect them to - IMHO you don't want to be the ones saying 'make me pay' you're saying I'm happy to negotiate just show me the paperwork, let's understand what I lawfully owe and let's work something out

 

Pre-action, is this paragraph acceptable?

 

This case is not covered by any approved protocol. After being diagnosed with a critical illness rendering me unable to work by doctors orders, I have tried to act reasonably in attempting to negotiate a payment plan, however the claimant has been, intimidating, unsympathetic and uncooperative, going straight to litigation without proper warning or any attempt to settle.

 

Just a couple of spellings and a small change

 

Witness, i thought to put myself and my Dad for all facts, maybe I am wrong though?

I don't think that you are a witness to the facts, unless you saw the paperwork signed or something like that

 

Track part, I guess all the CCA rules still apply in the small claims? but gather it can be used for a straight forward case, like bad DN and other which I have, to resolve quickly even if over 5k? and it is good point as back up in case things went wrong in restricting costs!

 

Bad DN straightforward

Higher the track, then the more likely you get heard properly

BUT you need to be much more prepared and teh costs risk is higher.

Directions, just use the templtes I have been seeing asking for all documents in 14 days, this is fine.

 

Make sure the 'template applies and make sure you understand it

 

Other Infomation is to attach the part asking about directions and at a disatvantage if they dont supply etc....

 

Actually I think that is about it, would you believe I didnt sleep at all last night and have come home from work il today with what feels like the flue, urgh! not good, this is just going round and round my head constantly, so I want to say a big thank you for peoples time, especially gh2008, on this, I guess I keep panicing in case I forget something and then post on here when no one is around!

 

Oh also, is it worth me calling the court to see if the other side have submitted theirs yet? I think I read if so I can ask for a copy?

 

Can't hurt

 

Thanks again!

 

E

 

 

Good luck - and try not to lose sleep (I know hard - we've all been there though) - it's not the end of the world, even if you do lose. Your health is way more important.

[gh2008]

You mean if the dont respond to the directions? as I didnt actually do the CPR thing in the end :-?

 

I believe the reason I didnt is because the POC doesnt actually mention them in any way, its quite vauge :-

 

The Claimants Claim is for the sum of XXXX being monies due and payable under the terms of a written finance agreement entered into between the parties on xxxx full particulars of which have been supplied to the Defendant. The Claimant also claims interest thereon pursuant to Section 69 of the county court Act 1984 at the rate of xx per annum

 

Looks not very good compared to many others I have read!

 

Ok, at AQ stage you are hoping for the court to get a good judge to have a look at the case and the AQs and decide what the best way of dealing with the claim.

 

He will look at it and say to himself

the OC lent the money and should be repaid it

BUT the CCA is there to protect consumers and the OC has not done what it must do and hasn't really made a good effort in bringing the claim.

 

To fairly deal with the case he needs to give directions, you've suggested some they could use.

You are hoping for an order giving a 1 month stay with 14 days for the OC to supply docs and then you 14 days to submit defence.

 

If they do not supply to apply to the court for another order to supply with strike out if they fail.

[NGEddie]

Thanks mate, that suddenly becomes crystal clear!

 

I just called the court and they havent had anything from the other side yet.

 

Am going to start polishing the draft and bits.

 

By the way, with small claims, can you still seek directions with the draft order for documents?

 

Edited February 2, 2010 by NGEddie

[NGEddie]

I am thinking how to word the reason why I am asking for it to goto small claims also, something along the lines of it being a straightforward case and us not wanting to waste the courts time? but worded much better, lol

 

Thanks!

[NGEddie]

Actually this will probably do :-

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the small claims track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant. not sure if to leave this off though...should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

Thanks!

[gh2008]

It is a very valid point.

At the end of the day you are not contesting that there is a debt, you are contesting that there is an agreement requiring you to repay the debt. You are also contesting their right to claim s.69 interest when it is expressly not allowed in CCA1974 cases. You could say that by claiming the interest they are leading you to believe that it is not a CCA debt therefore "show me the agreement"

 

You could even change the 'required to progress this case' to 'lawfully required to bring this case'

 

JMHO

[NGEddie]

Yes that sounds much better, thanks

 

Where it says at the very beggining about have we sent a copy to the other party, and also section I it asks have you send documents to them, do you have to do this, or is it best to? In one way I guess if they pick up what they have done wrong, we know they cant go back and change so they may back down a bit, or possibly research into ways around it, what do you think?

 

It may not even matter that much, as its been transfered to the local court here already, but I found some really good wording for the reason it should stay here, typically its the very one part I forgot to copy and save, anyone know of anything good, or actually if it matters, they may just leave it here I guess?

 

Thanks!

Edited February 3, 2010 by NGEddie

[NGEddie]

Another bit!

 

Does my Other Infomation part need to be as detailed as Johns in Post 94 on here?

 

I was going to use the one on here :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131499-directions-n150-n149-allocation.html

 

unless I used this one but changed to small claims at the end :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/175566-upto-eyeballs-cl-finance.html#post1896634

 

Please tell me if this is wrong as need to get this right and done today!

 

Thanks again

Edited February 3, 2010 by NGEddie
Stressing!

[NGEddie]

Just a quick one, do you have to sign the directions and Other Information attatchments?

 

Ta!

[NGEddie]

 

Your AQ (prob N150) will be similar to the one in PT's post above. However IMHO I would also put on the draft order for the claimant to amend their POC to make them sufficiently particularised and compliant with CPR 16

 

Just reading my thread again and remembered this bit! Could I literally say :-

 

- An amended Particulars of Claim sufficiently particularised and compliant with CPR 16

 

Sound ok?

 

Sorry for the plethora or questions today but am keen to get it wrapped up

[MandM]

yep. don't need to expand that really. 16 should be fine as what you're asking is from parts 16.2, .3 and .4 . So I would leave it at 16.

 

M

[gh2008]

Where it says at the very beggining about have we sent a copy to the other party, and also section I it asks have you send documents to them, do you have to do this, or is it best to?

....

It may not even matter that much, as its been transfered to the local court here already, but I found some really good wording for the reason it should stay here, typically its the very one part I forgot to copy and save, anyone know of anything good, or actually if it matters, they may just leave it here I guess?

 

the case will stay at your court as you are a LiP and they are a business trading in your local area

 

Just a quick one, do you have to sign the directions and Other Information attatchments?

 

directions no, info yes with a statement of truth

 

busy today isn't it

[NGEddie]

Thanks guys, it wont let me give you anymore reputation for the minute but thanks!

 

Cheers M, ill add that sentance in then!

 

GH, with the location, the claimant is actually up North and were down South, do you think its still ok to leave it?

 

When you say statement of truth?! Im sure I have probably seen these but not realised!

 

Busy, its my day off today and I havent let this pc once, lol, its all good though and at least its making sense to me, kinda

Edited February 3, 2010 by NGEddie
added text

[gh2008]

It will stay local - they gave you credit therefore they do business locally to you lol

 

I'm supposed to be working!! been on here since 9am without a break.

No wonder my business doesn't make any money lol

[NGEddie]

Wow, it feels like a weight is starting to lift as im getting this filled in

 

A - DONE

 

B - DONE

 

C- DONE

 

D - The agreement was actually signed at our house and I was here, so would it be both our names for all facts?

 

Experts - NO

 

Track - DONE

 

E - BLANK

 

F - DONE

 

G - BLANK

 

H - BLANK

 

I - Attatched documents - YES

Sent to other parties - NO I guess?

Applications - NO

 

I can attatch the Other Information regarding Special Directions etc... rather thank writing it all, yes?

 

Just need to know about statement of thruth please and I think were done!

[gh2008]

D - yes I think so

 

I - I would send - looks good on you

 

yes attach it

 

you're getting lazy google "statement of truth" lol

[NGEddie]

 

you're getting lazy google "statement of truth" lol

 

Whats Google?

 

"I believe that the facts stated in this (name the document and the date of the document) are true."

 

Ok, that was easy!

 

With the Other Information part, I am thinking of going with :-

 

Section I

 

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

Without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case.

 

The House of Lords in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) made it clear in paragraph 29 of LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD judgment

 

29. The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give

notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order.

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the small claims track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation lawfully required to bring this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

 

Therefore it stands to reason that these documents must be disclosed before this case can progress any further

 

I believe the facts stated in this uuummmm what is this called again are true

 

 

 

Do I need that caselaw in orange, as I have seen lots with and lots without? also not sure what we refer to that as?!

 

Cheers!

Edited February 3, 2010 by NGEddie
Changed to small claims!

[gh2008]

actually it seems you don't need the statement according to PT's post http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131499-directions-n150-n149-allocation.html#post1382499 I'd just follow that layout.

[NGEddie]

When you say...Statement...do you mean the case law part, or any of the section I part?!

 

Most ive seen had both on, but I am no expert!

[gh2008]

sorry - long day - meant statement of truth not needed that's all