Amber v Natwest (Mastercard)

[amber]

Hi Everyone,

 

Hubby's account. Internet Application.

 

I sent a 2nd CCA request off to them back in October (they claimed they had never recieved the first one at all) I also sent of a SAR, both via RD plus relevant cheques which I signed.

 

1st SAR sent 27th October 09

6th Nov 09 - Received CCA info. including what is supposed to be a 'copy' of the T&C's applicable at the time he opened the account. These are 12 pages long, and feature the 'new' charges of £12 which if I'm right, did not come into effect in 2006 and this card was opened in 2004.

 

In order of sequence, under the general reply letter, was this, purporting to be the CCA (I have removed the personal details) -

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz94/Amber007/NatwestMCcopyofCCA.jpg

 

Then there was 12 pages of T&C's as stated above. Then at the back of the T&C's, this was underneath them: -

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz94/Amber007/SupposedotherpartofCCA.jpg

 

Now, I wasn't not happy with this for the following reasons:

1. Top right-hand corner says 'Page 3' - page 3 of what? Of how many? Where are the other pages? Why haven't they sent them to me?

2. Your information "Please read carefully clause 14 headed 'Your information' in the accompanying Terms & Conditions. They have not sent the T&Cs from the date of opening the account, they have sent their current T&C's, which are not good enough and do not tally up.

3. There is no credit limit stated.

4. There is no APR stated.

5. There is no cancellation box.

6. Paragraph titled 'Declaration' - "I confirm that I have read and agree to be bound by the Conditions of Use enclosed (including the abridged conditions set out on the previous page). I don't have the 'previous page', this is the only page they have sent me. I don't have a copy of the Conditons of Use they talk about, so I don't know what was in them nor have they sent me a copy.

 

So I sent them a template letter from here, informing them that the CCA was illegible in tiny font and that many of the terms where blurred, no list of all transactions/statements etc, just a current statement - giving them a further 7 days to respond.

 

Well, they responded with a letter dated 1st Dec 09 which I recieved on Sat 5th Dec 09. Here is the copy:

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz94/Amber007/NatwestMCReply.jpg

 

In this letter, they state that they see no reason to enter into further correspondence about the alledged CCA breaches and if we are not satisfied to seek whatever legal redress we consider open to us. That they do not consider the account in dispute, the debt remains due and payable and that they will be pursuing for the full repayment. ALL non payments have been recorded on your credit file as has the default due to non payment. So, I'm a little bit stumped as to what to do next, what my plan of action would be? Can my fellow Caggers please have a look at what they have sent me and offer some advice on where I should go from here? As we are on a DMP and they have acknowledged this can they now turn around and chase us for full repayment?

 

Please help, I am unsure what to do next. Thanks.

Edited December 10, 2009 by amber
waffle

[MandM]

Just bumping ya

 

M

[amber]

BUMP. Any advice would be welcome please.

[amber]

Bump.

[vint1954]

Amber,

 

The agreement is too small to read.

 

They would need to have a signed document at this date, even if opened online.

 

Are the 3 prescribed terms on the signature page and has it been signed by you.

[amber]

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz94/Amber007/NatwestMCCCA_sent.jpg

 

Which '3' prescribed terms are you referring to Vint?

Edited December 13, 2009 by amber
Imaging too small to read

[bornrich]

Amber,

 

Have a sift through Sticky's help threads on whether contracts are enforceable.

 

The terms depend on the type of agreement (loan or credit card account) and include APRs, payment frequency, payment amount etc.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Bornrich.

 

P.S. If you could give us a bigger scan of your doc that would be good. I scan mine in at 200dpi ACTUAL SIZE and as a greyscale (cuts file size by a quarter).

[bornrich]

Amber,

 

Have a sift through Sticky's help threads on whether contracts are enforceable.

 

The terms depend on the type of agreement (loan or credit card account) and include APRs, payment frequency, payment amount etc.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Bornrich.

 

P.S. If you could give us a bigger scan of your doc that would be good. I scan mine in at 200dpi ACTUAL SIZE and as a greyscale (cuts file size by a quarter).

[amber]

 

I think I've finally done it right! This is for a Mastercard Credit Card Agreement.

So are the terms correct, is it deemed enforceable? I'm thinking its not, ref: my reasons in post 1.

Edited December 14, 2009 by amber
Imaging

[bornrich]

It says Page 3 at the top. Do you have pages 1, 2 and assuming it's folded page 4?

 

Bornrich

[amber]

No, no other pages. Then there was 12 pages of current T&C's attached underneath this and attached the back of the T&C's, this was underneath them: (see first post on this thread for URL link) so it looks like they are trying to say that THIS (jpg) is part of the front page of the CCA they sent me. Hence my questions:

 

1. Top right-hand corner says 'Page 3' - page 3 of what? Of how many? Where are the other pages? Why haven't they sent them to me?

2. Your information "Please read carefully clause 14 headed 'Your information' in the accompanying Terms & Conditions. They have not sent the T&Cs from the date of opening the account, they have sent their current T&C's, which are not good enough and do not tally up.

3. There is no credit limit stated.

4. There is no APR stated.

5. There is no cancellation box.

6. Paragraph titled 'Declaration' - "I confirm that I have read and agree to be bound by the Conditions of Use enclosed (including the abridged conditions set out on the previous page). I don't have the 'previous page', this is the only page they have sent me. I don't have a copy of the Conditons of Use they talk about, so I don't know what was in them nor have they sent me a copy. So I sent them a template letter from here, informing them that the CCA was illegible in tiny font and that many of the terms where blurred, no list of all transactions/statements etc, just a current statement - giving them a further 7 days to respond.

 

Well, they responded with a letter dated 1st Dec 09 which I recieved on Sat 5th Dec 09. Here is the copy: (see first post on this thread for URL link)

 

And this is where I am up to so far and I do not know what to send them in response and I am aware that time is passing and christmas upon us/shutdown, so I really need to get something in the post to them.

Edited December 14, 2009 by amber
.

[bornrich]

Assuming that you want to proceed to a full and final offer somewhere down the line.

 

But I think you have to exchange a few letters before the bank comes round to the idea. State you points why you believe the agreement would be unenforceable in a court of law. Give notice that you are placing the account in dispute.

[amber]

I think they ought to supply the missing pages of said agreement and on the basis of this alone (at the moment) is this enough to send them the account in dispute letter? Not sure about the F&F offer somewhere down the line, would be good to get to that point but no money at the moment to agree to one if it was offered.

Edited December 16, 2009 by amber
.

[amber]

Bumping this - any advice please guys regarding what my next step should be?